What are your top goals for Logic stage history -Ancients

[plain jane]

I need some advice and help nailing down what to focus on during my last few weeks of our Logic stage study of Ancients. We're down to Greece & Rome and I want to make the most of these next few weeks since the next time we cover this, it'll be high school. :svengo:

 

What would you say are the most important things you'd want your logic stage kids to come away with after studying Greece and Rome at this stage? What do you feel they absolutely must know and understand? What books do you think are non-negotiable?

 

I would greatly appreciate your input on this!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I need some advice and help nailing down what to focus on during my last few weeks of our Logic stage study of Ancients. We're down to Greece & Rome and I want to make the most of these next few weeks since the next time we cover this, it'll be high school. :svengo:

 

What would you say are the most important things you'd want your logic stage kids to come away with after studying Greece and Rome at this stage? What do you feel they absolutely must know and understand? What books do you think are non-negotiable?

 

I would greatly appreciate your input on this!

 

I might look at how they acted and why they did so. And how these actions and attitudes changed over time.

 

For example, why did the Spartans defend the pass at Thermopolyae while the rest of the city states were dithering (and while the priests from Sparta refused to allow the rest of the Spartan army fight, for that matter). What did they think they were defending if there was not common concept of "Greece" as a nation. Or was this the beginning of that sense - an attack from outside.

 

What did Greeks think they owed to their city? How did their style of warfare underline dependency on each other? Why did they often ostracize men who had been heros or at least leaders of victorious battles?

 

How did Rome move from republic to empire to decline? What were the markers of the decline of the republic. (If you're Star Wars fans, what are the parallels between the rise of Julius Caesar and Augustus and the fall of the Roman Republic.) Why did the empire in turn rise and fall? Did it get too big, try to absorb too many different cultures? Or did the character of the people change (too much bread and circuses)?

 

You might want to dig a little into the concepts of democracy and slavery and attitudes toward women.

 

A couple favorite authors for the period are Peter Connolly (The Ancient City, Life in the Time of Jesus of Nazareth (aka, The Holy Land - this is a secular book which has the best explanation of the politics of the time with Herod and the Romans that I've ever read), The Legionary, The Cavalryman, etc) and Victor Davis Hanson (The Western Way of War and the Greek chapters of Ripples of Battle).

 

 

Peter Connolly's books are largely out of print, but are very good. Worth trying to find at the library. Some of the titles have different names in US and UK editions, so you might want to search by author to see all that is available.

[plain jane]

Thank you for this. It's exactly the kind of response I'm looking for. Of course, I don't know the answers to some of these so I'm feeling woefully pathetic at

the moment. :leaving: However, it gives me something to focus on and work towards fleshing out, which is what I'm needing at this time.

 

Looking forward to hear what others have to say.

 

I should add that this is for a 5th grader. :)

[Nakia]

I'm subscribing to this thread since we are planning Ancients for the fall. My current plan is just to survive it. :tongue_smilie:

[LNC]

I'm using the Student's Friend to remember some of those anchor points when we are done studying ancients. They have made a HUGE logic stage notebook, but I needed something very succinct in bullet points to commit to long term memory. I have this printed out in a folder next to our TQ manuals!

http://www.studentsfriend.com/sf/downsf.html

 

HTH!

[funnygirl]

I'm using the Student's Friend to remember some of those anchor points when we are done studying ancients. They have made a HUGE logic stage notebook, but I needed something very succinct in bullet points to commit to long term memory. I have this printed out in a folder next to our TQ manuals!

http://www.studentsfriend.com/sf/downsf.html

 

 

VERY helpful!! Thanks!!

[plain jane]

Ugh. Is this a bad question? I'm wondering why I'm not getting any responses. :( I could really use some help on this.

 

Anybody else willing to share what's important to you and what you'll want to make sure you focus on/cover when studying Greece/Rome during Logic stage?

 

I believe we have the basics covered from our grammar stage and now the time is to dig deeper. But there's so much to dig deeper into that I'm overwhelmed. Not only that but I don't necessarily know what would be best to cover to be better prepared for high school.

 

Please help me!:bigear:

[Annabel Lee]

Thank you for this. It's exactly the kind of response I'm looking for. Of course, I don't know the answers to some of these so I'm feeling woefully pathetic at

the moment. :leaving: However, it gives me something to focus on and work towards fleshing out, which is what I'm needing at this time.

 

Looking forward to hear what others have to say.

 

I should add that this is for a 5th grader. :)

 

 

I'm in the same boat, so I'm just subbing to your thread & giving you a friendly "bump". On this note, what kinds of materials or curricula are there for a homeschool parent to use when they don't know these kinds of things? Which curricula point out the big connections that need to be made and ask questions such as those from the PP above?

[Susie in CA]

Jane,

 

I have difficulty answering your question because there really isn't any one important thing in history I could think of. All of it as a story has to make sense because, of course, everthing leads to the next thing in the story. I hope I am making sense.

 

I would simply suggest that you go through your spine (whatever that is). We always did history the WTM way with listing, facts, writing summaries, extra reading etc. I find that all of it now that we are doing this for the second time is really falling into place. I can see how everything is inner-related. To me it really is that simply. Pick a spine. Work through it. Decide on books you and/or the kids like. Pick some related movies and projects. Call it done. It is amazing what you can achieve with such a simple program.

[ChrissySC]

I continue to build the knowledge base with more indepth research into the civilizations themselves, such as why the geography matters to the development of a culture and the way in which they live. How did religion effect their decisions and development?

 

I push for cause and effect relationships too. I do not look for rhetoric-based opinions, of course. I look for things such as ... what was the reason for the pyramid. I try to avoid the "what do you think" questions. It would be difficult to form opinions at this stage with little upon which to base the opinion other than the facts that have been spoon fed over the years. All in good time. I want only the surface cause and effect at this point.

 

Fifth grade. I will proceed much in this manner through the sixth grade too. As we begin to approach the 7th and 8th, I will have her look for underlying reasons that are not nearly as apparent as we approach and study our own country (which will be American based with the world history playing second fiddle this time around).

 

 

Basicly, I am enlarging the foundation for debate in high school. :001_smile:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

:bigear:

I'm planning Greece and Rome for next year. I subscribed to this hoping for more.

 

I didn't really know much about Ancient China, I just read and watched ahead and got ideas as I went. I figured out what was important to know, what he would like to know or was interested in and built on that.

 

I found with studying the Ancients, it's always important to understand the arc of the civilization. How did they start? What was their peak like? How did they decline or fall? Who were the rulers at the times? What did they do that was important? Why did everything change? What was their religion or philosophy?

 

Another interesting question is how did they perceive themselves and their civilization and how did they perceive others.

 

For example, Rome dealt with the various "barbarians" they encountered by conquering them, but then romanizing them. They built Roman cities, villas, baths, roads, etc. They brought the barbarians into the army as auxillaries and then as citizens. They colonized the outer lands with retired soldiers and their families.

 

Other civilizations might conquer an area, but always consider them as outsiders. Fit to be vassals, but not to be on the same plane as the conquerers.

 

Another thought is how did the fall of Rome lead to situations in the middle ages. Two examples. As the Roman empire fell and people were migrating around looking for work and food, they might come upon a farm and ask for shelter. It might be given in return for work. But in short order, the stranger might find themselves as bondsmen and then as slaves. (This is part of the intro to How the Irish Saved Civilization, IIRC.) This breakdown led to the system of feudal serfdom where people were not necessarily slaves to be bought and sold, but were not free to leave the estates they were tied to.

 

Another example is the fight in the age of Justinian over the nature of Christ. (Controversy over monophysitism) One biography of Empress Theodora suggested that the persecution of the monophysites in Egypt, Syria and the Levant led to their being more willing to embrace Muslim conquerers, who provided them with greater freedom of religion as infidels than they'd had when branded as heritics.

 

This is the sort of so what questions that we're trying to foster. Sometimes they are best seen in hindsight rather than as an explicit, this happened and then it caused that. But maybe you can point to the fall of Alexander the Great's empire as one of the causes of tension between Cleopatra and Rome and also as one of the reasons that Jerusalem ended up as a Roman territory.

 

Have fun with it.