Writing with Ease Questions...very little improvement. WWYD? Need ideas.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Ds10 (fifth grade) is in WWE4. We started this year in WWS1 but Ds was just not ready for it. I even spent a few weeks trying to remediate but it wasn't enough and back to WWE we were. After our false start with WWS and a few more weeks trying to make it work, we are now on Week 20 of WWE.

 

My son is still needing 20+ repetitions to get the dictations. At least. Seriously. Sometimes it's more. I realize we are just halfway there but in WWE it says that by the end of WWE4...

By this point, the student should be able to read a passage independently, sum it up in three or four sentences, write those sentences down (with some assistance if necessary), and take dictation exercises of around 25 to 30 words after three to four repetitions. If the student struggles with any of these skills in the evaluation that follows, plan on spending a few more weeks on either dictation or narration in order to provide extra practice.

 

He has made such little improvement since we've started. It's almost heartbreaking some days.

 

Narrations are not any better than dictations. He struggles mightily to pick out the important details. He is a boy (with a spring birthday so young for his grade) and he has Asperger's so I know these are both strikes for him in the writing department yet I can't help but feel I am missing some key that would unlock this for us.

 

I cannot understand why he cannot get the dictations as his memory is truly amazing. We memorize Scripture each week and he always has the new verses after just a few repetitions. I know that some of the wording in the narrations is challenging but shouldn't I expect him to be doing better by now?

 

Often in dictations he will repeat back to me the sentence and he has the jist but he has changed the order of the words and/or inserted words he is more comfortable with. I have required him to write EXACTLY what the dictation is in the book and not allowed this but I have wondered what others do.

 

Can others share their experiences? We are plugging along. I love the method of WWE/WWS and really want to stick with it. What has worked for your reluctant writers with WWE?

Edited April 1, 2012 by Jennefer@SSA

[Carrie12345]

This is something I've noticed with a couple of my kids...

 

If they're focusing exclusively on word one, word two, word three, etc... strict memorizing... it's going to be harder. They won't be holding the *thought, so much as a string of randome words. *I* can't remember a string of 25 random words.

 

With my 8yo (WWE 2), I've started reading the sentence, then asking her if she remembers it from the preceding story and talking about that a bit. THEN I give the dictation a few more times, so she's now repeating a *thought instead of memorizing words. I also shorten it for her, if need be.

 

I know my aspie son has a lot of difficulty with holding an idea vs. memorizing something, but he's in PS now, so he doesn't need to think. :tongue_smilie:

[Hedgehogs4]

I think the dictations in WWE 4 are very long. While I absolutely buy the system that SWB is putting forth, I do not necessarily think that a whole paragraph of information / words can be "memorized" in three passes. My DS 10 is in WWE 3 at the moment, and he has no problem doing the level 3 dications in 3 passes, but come WWE 4, I will probably take a different approach by splitting the passages into more manageable chunks. I just think it is very tough.

 

If after 20 lessons your son still needs more than 10 repetitions to get it down, I would begin breaking it down into 2 to 3 chunks of sentences.

[5LittleMonkeys]

I dropped exact word for word dictation. It was painful for me and my dc. I personally feel the skill of being able to listen to a 25 to 30 word passage and then accurately summarize that passage is a far more useful skill. In what circumstance is your student going to need to write down what someone else says word for word? In college the skill of summarizing a lecture would be far more valuable. My dc's inability to do those huge dictations has in NO WAY diminished their ability to write well and, in fact, once we stopped tormenting ourselves over dictation their confidence increased and writing became enjoyable.

 

I know the point of dictation is to train the brain to hold information until you can get it written down, but I never formulate a perfect passage of 25 to 30 words. I have an idea in my mind and as I begin to write my mind formulates a flow of words to support and express that idea. I have find these two skills in WWE are viewed as contradictory to my dc. We focus so much time and effort on summarizing\choosing only the main topics or main details and then we tell them that they have to memorize and write these other long passages word for word. My dc found it frustrating.

[Mommamia]

Hoping this will encourage you http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348707&highlight=WWE+dictation

 

My friend went through WWE4 last year and would break up the dictation into smaller parts, or make up her own for the passage. HTH.

[Jennefer@SSA]

Hoping this will encourage you http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348707&highlight=WWE+dictation

 

My friend went through WWE4 last year and would break up the dictation into smaller parts, or make up her own for the passage. HTH.

 

That was encouraging. Thank you for posting the link. I am somewhat of a SWB junkie and it's good to be reminded that no program works for all kids all the time. I know it, just need a gentle reminder now and then. ;)

[Colleen]

That was encouraging. Thank you for posting the link. I am somewhat of a SWB junkie and it's good to be reminded that no program works for all kids all the time. I know it, just need a gentle reminder now and then. ;)

 

I'm glad you're encouraged, Jennifer.:) I plan to use WWE and WWS with my three younger boys this next school year. I see great value in SWB's systematic approach to writing ~ emulating good writing, learning to summarize, etcetera. Copywork and dictation have always been integral to my homeschool, whether I'm using Sonlight, WTM resources, Bravewriter, or simply doing my own thing. To that end, I appreciate SWB's emphasis on those skills.

 

Having said that, I have no intention whatsoever of requiring my guys to hold entire paragraphs in their head prior to putting them down verbatim on paper. Generally, when passages are more than a few sentences in length, I read them once or twice in their entirety. I help my children to repeat the reading, and then dictate to them one sentence at a time. This is more or less the method I'll continue to apply alongside Susan's program.

 

Keep in mind that SWB, much as we all appreciate her, is but one voice. Likewise, her approach to dictation is but one approach. The two-part video in which her son, Dan, writes two sentences from dictation is helpful in that we see the process requires time and patience. But that lesson took more than 15 minutes. We can only imagine how much time would be required for a passage of twice that length or more ~ and I don't consider that the best use of our time.

 

The benefits of dictation remain regardless of the specific method one uses. We have to exercise our own competence and common sense and teach as we see fit. Best to you!

Edited April 2, 2012 by Colleen

[LNC]

I think the dictations in WWE 4 are very long. While I absolutely buy the system that SWB is putting forth, I do not necessarily think that a whole paragraph of information / words can be "memorized" in three passes. My DS 10 is in WWE 3 at the moment, and he has no problem doing the level 3 dications in 3 passes, but come WWE 4, I will probably take a different approach by splitting the passages into more manageable chunks. I just think it is very tough.

 

If after 20 lessons your son still needs more than 10 repetitions to get it down, I would begin breaking it down into 2 to 3 chunks of sentences.

 

I need the dictations broken down into at least 2 chunks. I break them down into 3 for my children - and they used WWE in 6th and 5th grades.

[Aloha2U]

Narrations are not any better than dictations. He struggles mightily to pick out the important details. He is a boy (with a spring birthday so young for his grade) and he has Asperger's so I know these are both strikes for him in the writing department yet I can't help but feel I am missing some key that would unlock this for us.

 

I cannot understand why he cannot get the dictations as his memory is truly amazing. We memorize Scripture each week and he always has the new verses after just a few repetitions. I know that some of the wording in the narrations is challenging but shouldn't I expect him to be doing better by now?

 

Often in dictations he will repeat back to me the sentence and he has the jist but he has changed the order of the words and/or inserted words he is more comfortable with. I have required him to write EXACTLY what the dictation is in the book and not allowed this but I have wondered what others do.

 

Can others share their experiences? We are plugging along. I love the method of WWE/WWS and really want to stick with it. What has worked for your reluctant writers with WWE?

 

I recently started a new thread inquiring about Imitations in Writing by Matt Whitling (Logos Press). Have you ever looked at those materials? It seems as though they could be complementary to WWE/WWS, for those students who would benefit from adding a few simple steps to the narration/summarization process (vocabulary - defined after reading passage, outline the plot - summarize the plot one sentence at a time and include vocabulary, list the characters) and therefore provided with a little more guidance. Here's a PDF Sample of Aesop's Fables, book 1 in the series, if you're interesting in viewing an example of what I just mentioned.

Edited April 2, 2012 by CMama

[Barb_]

I think 3-4 reps in Writing with Ease isn't a reasonable expectation for some kids. A lot of kids, actually. Thanks for the reminder to go slower and break things down a bit for the 5th grader. It's still a valuable exercise doing it that way.

[EKS]

If he can't do it he can't do it. I don't think it's worth it to stress about dictations. My son, who performed the highest on the working memory portion of the WISC IV that the the person testing him had ever seen, can't deal with more than a few words of dictation at a time.

 

It's is really ok if you need to give it to him piece by piece. You could even drop dictation and be ok. Really! The focus should be on his own writing. Kids can learn to write well without being masters of dictation.