Sonlight has rolled out some of the changes....

[Alison in KY]

I feel like I've missed something here. I understand the changes to the cores, but can someone elaborate on their prob w/ the company? What did John do, why did they change their catalog, etc. I haven't really looked at the company for about 8 years, since they closed their forums. Now I am considering buying core g, but I'd like to understand what I'm dealing with.

[staceyobu]

I feel like I've missed something here. I understand the changes to the cores, but can someone elaborate on their prob w/ the company? What did John do, why did they change their catalog, etc. I haven't really looked at the company for about 8 years, since they closed their forums. Now I am considering buying core g, but I'd like to understand what I'm dealing with.

 

I have no idea about the John thing, but the catalog changed last year and I was at least occasionally on their forums during the change and was using a sonlight core at the time. They took the book descriptions and author names out of the catalog. They replaced it with a small list of the books the core contained. The catalog now has a lot more pictures of families and quotes from people using the material instead of the detailed book descriptions.

 

I can't remember their exact reasons, but I think they said they changed the catalog because the new approach was more appealing to people who hadn't used sonlight because they were able to read more reviews instead of just getting a booklist. A lot of people on the forum who had been using sonlight for a while were really unhappy with losing the booklist. They felt sonlight wasn't listening to their opinions and sonlight basically responded along the lines of "sorry, but this is better for the company" line.

 

Honestly, I was pretty neutral on the whole deal. I loooove the booklist catalog. However, I hear people constantly tell other homeschoolers that all they need to homeschool is their local library and a sonlight catalog. It doesn't really seem fair to me for people to use the booklist that sonlight has compiled and them not see a profit from it. I mean, MFW won't publish their book basket list for everyone to use for free. So, I understand they may have had motivation to change it to make it a little harder to figure out what the books are in the core. It's a decision that made a lot of people unhappy. However, that decision wouldn't be one that would influence me away from purchasing sonlight.

[Kathryn]

I feel like I've missed something here. I understand the changes to the cores, but can someone elaborate on their prob w/ the company? What did John do, why did they change their catalog, etc. I haven't really looked at the company for about 8 years, since they closed their forums. Now I am considering buying core g, but I'd like to understand what I'm dealing with.

 

There are SO many issues.

 

There was the forum poof years ago and heavy forum moderation and other forum complaints (including another round of old timers that are currently disappearing over there because they don't have "Heirloom" status despite spending way more over the years than someone who has only bought four cores).

 

There was the debacle with John and the Colorado homeschool group that wouldn't show Sonlight at their conventions because they weren't YEC enough, which ended up with John resigning and the company adding a lot of notes and resources about YEC. I've heard a lot of complaints about how the company has been run since Sarita took over sole responsibility.

 

There is the removal of book descriptions and index and individual product prices last year. The response to customer concern on the forums has been pretty patronizing, what with being told that we don't represent their audience. They've been very evasive with why they've done it, and just continue to say that their customers like it better. Everyone would just rather hear the truth, even if it is the fact that they think it will cut down on their catalog being used as a booklist (though we've all pointed out the fact that people aren't going to buy from Sonlight just because they make it more difficult, if they wouldn't have before, and people want to know what they're spending their money on; they think people would rather read Sarita's narrative of the Core than individual book descriptions).

 

The biggest concern comes with the release of information about this year's changes. Every single one of the announced changes, being forced to purchase LA and Bible as part of a Core, and notes being integrated into the IG instead of at the back, are all things that had been changed previously in response to customer request. It's become obvious that their only concern is the increase of Core sales and profits and repurchase of materials. And in doing so, they've lost all sense of direction for the company, flip-flopping from year to year as to what defines a Core, and what Sonlight really IS.

 

Most of those who are most upset either are old timers or have heard the stories of how the company used to be, when "listening" to customer input also meant "caring" about customer input, when they didn't come up with new and interesting ways to charge you each year, when they even noted in the catalog which items would be most likely to be found at the library. They lament that the company that they wanted to give their money to is now the company that they only want to buy essentials from, if that. What once felt like a close-knit family, full of people who cared and who supported you and you wanted to support, now feels like merely a business out to separate you from your money. For those who don't know how it once was, the "new" Sonlight doesn't seem out of the ordinary, but to those who know what it once was, it's both maddening and saddening.

[Alison in KY]

Thanks for the explanation.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

There are SO many issues.

 

There was the forum poof years ago and heavy forum moderation and other forum complaints (including another round of old timers that are currently disappearing over there because they don't have "Heirloom" status despite spending way more over the years than someone who has only bought four cores).

 

There was the debacle with John and the Colorado homeschool group that wouldn't show Sonlight at their conventions because they weren't YEC enough, which ended up with John resigning and the company adding a lot of notes and resources about YEC. I've heard a lot of complaints about how the company has been run since Sarita took over sole responsibility.

 

There is the removal of book descriptions and index and individual product prices last year. The response to customer concern on the forums has been pretty patronizing, what with being told that we don't represent their audience. They've been very evasive with why they've done it, and just continue to say that their customers like it better. Everyone would just rather hear the truth, even if it is the fact that they think it will cut down on their catalog being used as a booklist (though we've all pointed out the fact that people aren't going to buy from Sonlight just because they make it more difficult, if they wouldn't have before, and people want to know what they're spending their money on; they think people would rather read Sarita's narrative of the Core than individual book descriptions).

 

The biggest concern comes with the release of information about this year's changes. Every single one of the announced changes, being forced to purchase LA and Bible as part of a Core, and notes being integrated into the IG instead of at the back, are all things that had been changed previously in response to customer request. It's become obvious that their only concern is the increase of Core sales and profits and repurchase of materials. And in doing so, they've lost all sense of direction for the company, flip-flopping from year to year as to what defines a Core, and what Sonlight really IS.

 

Most of those who are most upset either are old timers or have heard the stories of how the company used to be, when "listening" to customer input also meant "caring" about customer input, when they didn't come up with new and interesting ways to charge you each year, when they even noted in the catalog which items would be most likely to be found at the library. They lament that the company that they wanted to give their money to is now the company that they only want to buy essentials from, if that. What once felt like a close-knit family, full of people who cared and who supported you and you wanted to support, now feels like merely a business out to separate you from your money. For those who don't know how it once was, the "new" Sonlight doesn't seem out of the ordinary, but to those who know what it once was, it's both maddening and saddening.

:iagree:

I purchased my first core in 2005 and can say the company they were...the one I fell in love with...is not the company they are today. Last year was the worst though. I remember the condescending comments made by SL staff to those who voiced their opinions about the catalog. Sad and frustrating.

[swellmomma]

:iagree:

I purchased my first core in 2005 and can say the company they were...the one I fell in love with...is not the company they are today. Last year was the worst though. I remember the condescending comments made by SL staff to those who voiced their opinions about the catalog. Sad and frustrating.

 

:iagree: My first purchase was with them in 2006, I did not buy a core, I bought $2000 worth of every book from all the bores we missed out on to build up our home library. The company I dealt with back them compared to now is a huge difference. They took it from a company that was concerned about providing the best curriculum to missionaries and getting great books into homeschooler's hands into a business focused more on the $$ than on the customer. I guess that is to be expected given the way customer service has vanished for so many businesses but it certainly does not get one wanting to spend hundreds or thousands of $ with them. I had planned to buy 2 full cores for next year as well as the books for a 3rd core that I bought the IG for last year. In the end I was looking at spending $1500 or so from them PLUS the crazy high amount they charge for shipping to Canadians now. THat was what irked me even more than the catalogue when they stopped free shipping to Canada once you spent X amount, AND charged a crazy amount. SO in 2006 I got that $2000 order shipped free, to place that same order today would cost me almost $200 in shipping, yet the shipping label on it would read a good $50-75 less than that. I would rather chose a company that values it's customers more than the almighty $. I made due with the catalogue changes by using amazon to read about the books (many of which I ordered from amazon in the end because they were better priced), but I will not make due with these new changes. ANd the patronizing tone that pp mentioned was so prevalent after teh catalogue change is back in full force now, and I can only see what is on the public part of the boards (which I am not allowed to reply to anyway, despite haivng spent THousands of $), I had asked a question on the public boards, and got a reply with a question back to me for clarification from one of the consultants and I am not able to respond back to her answering the question because I am not a paid member of the boards, my membership expired.

[Scuff]

I have no idea about the John thing, but the catalog changed last year and I was at least occasionally on their forums during the change and was using a sonlight core at the time. They took the book descriptions and author names out of the catalog. They replaced it with a small list of the books the core contained. The catalog now has a lot more pictures of families and quotes from people using the material instead of the detailed book descriptions.

 

I can't remember their exact reasons, but I think they said they changed the catalog because the new approach was more appealing to people who hadn't used sonlight because they were able to read more reviews instead of just getting a booklist. A lot of people on the forum who had been using sonlight for a while were really unhappy with losing the booklist. They felt sonlight wasn't listening to their opinions and sonlight basically responded along the lines of "sorry, but this is better for the company" line.

 

Honestly, I was pretty neutral on the whole deal. I loooove the booklist catalog. However, I hear people constantly tell other homeschoolers that all they need to homeschool is their local library and a sonlight catalog. It doesn't really seem fair to me for people to use the booklist that sonlight has compiled

 

I get this, but I also think they shot themselves in the foot. When I was first looking for curriculum, I loved the idea of Sonlight, but we just didn't have the $. So, yes, I used the booklist. But I also bought things from them that weren't available elsewhere. And now we have the funds to purchase more. If I hadn't moved away from Sonlight, i could now buy a full core (or 2). They're cutting out this market by deleting the descriptions. People who can't afford it aren't going to automatically buy cores. No, now they'll just look elsewhere and will settle on something else.

[ByGrace3]

They're cutting out this market by deleting the descriptions. People who can't afford it aren't going to automatically buy cores. No, now they'll just look elsewhere and will settle on something else.

 

I can certainly see the frustration of the catalog change, but the book descriptions are still available on the website, right? Am I missing something?

 

I am one that has looked at SL over and over and use a lot of the books, and readers, but have yet to buy a core. I can see this further pushing me not to buy a core as I do not like purchasing what I will not use, and we are quite content with other materials for LA and Bible. I LIKE a core being history/literature.

 

I have always thought it was very generous of SL to post book lists. I am one that benefits greatly from it, though I do order some from them, especially sets of readers and schedules.