Momof3littles Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Because my 2 yo is not really cooperating with sleep these days, I can't seem to figure out what is proper here. DH's co is working on an ad and he just asked me a question and I can't seem to tell which answer is grammatically correct. I'll change the verb here, but basically let's pretend it is a lawnmower company (it isn't). Nobody runs like we do. Nobody runs like us. He works with a lot of tech folks and grammar is not always their strong suit ;) Which do you think is grammatically correct? Do they each mean something different? What say you, Hive? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Nobody runs like we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Because my 2 yo is not really cooperating with sleep these days, I can't seem to figure out what is proper here. DH's co is working on an ad and he just asked me a question and I can't seem to tell which answer is grammatically correct. I'll change the verb here, but basically let's pretend it is a lawnmower company (it isn't). Nobody runs like we do. Nobody runs like us. He works with a lot of tech folks and grammar is not always their strong suit ;) Which do you think is grammatically correct? Do they each mean something different? What say you, Hive? :bigear: Actually, they do have slightly different meanings, so it depends on the context of the ad. If it means that no one else does it as well, then it would be the former. If it means that no one does it in the same manner, then it's the latter. Also, I feel compelled to point out that the former really would be "as" instead of "like." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Actually, they do have slightly different meanings, so it depends on the context of the ad. If it means that no one else does it as well, then it would be the former. If it means that no one does it in the same manner, then it's the latter. Also, I feel compelled to point out that the former really would be "as" instead of "like." Thank you both. Still thinking this over. DH was thinking "like we do" was the better choice but is trying to explain to colleagues why "like us" doesn't work as well. If we go back to the lawnmower example, if they make lawnmowers (again, they don't, but it is the same type of example), do we think "Nobody cuts like we do" is the better option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDad Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 If we go back to the lawnmower example, if they make lawnmowers (again, they don't, but it is the same type of example), do we think "Nobody cuts like we do" is the better option? I do, but it sort of sounds as though it's referring to self-harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I do, but it sort of sounds as though it's referring to self-harm. Oh sheesh. I guess a bad example on my part :tongue_smilie: How about a company that makes printers. Nobody prints like we do. Nobody prints like us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Actually, they do have slightly different meanings, so it depends on the context of the ad. If it means that no one else does it as well, then it would be the former. If it means that no one does it in the same manner, then it's the latter. Also, I feel compelled to point out that the former really would be "as" instead of "like." Hmmm...I disagree. I think it is perfectly acceptable to use "like" as the conjunction; no need to change it to "as." Also, "no one does it in the same manner" would still call for a conjunctive use of "like," because you are saying "No one cuts the way we cut." So you still need "we." The only reason to use "us" is if you are using "like" as a preposition. As in, "You need friends like us." If you said "Nobody cuts grass like us," you would basically be equating "us" to the grass. If "we" are doing the cutting, you have to use the nominative case pronoun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hmmm...I disagree. I think it is perfectly acceptable to use "like" as the conjunction; no need to change it to "as." Also, "no one does it in the same manner" would still call for a conjunctive use of "like," because you are saying "No one cuts the way we cut." So you still need "we." The only reason to use "us" is if you are using "like" as a preposition. As in, "You need friends like us." If you said "Nobody cuts grass like us," you would basically be equating "us" to the grass. If "we" are doing the cutting, you have to use the nominative case pronoun. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Thank you again. Can anyone spell out for me why "like we do" is preferred? That's what DH thought, but he needs to present an actual argument. His boss disliked the "like us" (after the meeting where this option was preferred) but isn't 100% sure why it is incorrect. This slogan for the ad was developed in a group setting and DH was the only one who preferred the "like we do" at the time. He couldn't articulate exactly why it was better though. These are a bunch of very smart guys who are not grammar whizzes. I should hang my head for not knowing the actual argument as to why one is preferred over the other. Edited February 23, 2012 by Momof3littles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's because even if you leave off the word "do," it is implied. "Nobody cuts like us do" is wrong; therefore, "nobody cuts like us" is also wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's because even if you leave off the word "do," it is implied. "Nobody cuts like us do" is wrong; therefore, "nobody cuts like us" is also wrong. Thank you. My intellectual prowess is not being helped by my 2yo nursing 100x a night right now. :glare: By mid afternoon my brain cells are no longer functioning. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) The word "like" can be used in three ways: as a comparative preposition, as a conjunction (in place of "as"), or as a verb. When you say "Nobody cuts like us" you are using 'like' as a comparative preposition- which isn't improper, but just doesn't sound right, imho. When you say "Nobody cuts like we cut" or "Nobody cuts like we do" you are using 'like' as a conjunction (in place of the word 'as'), which to me, just sounds more appropriate for an ad. I'm not a grammar expert, though- so if I'm wrong somebody else please correct me. :) Edited February 23, 2012 by Coffeetime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's because even if you leave off the word "do," it is implied. "Nobody cuts like us do" is wrong; therefore, "nobody cuts like us" is also wrong. Except that if you are using 'like' as a preposition ("nobody cuts like us") then you would be using the objective case 'us' not 'we'. So 'us' would be proper. When you say "like we do" you are using 'like' as a conjunction with a restated clause ("we do"). I think both are proper, I just think it sounds better used as a conjunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Except that if you are using 'like' as a preposition ("nobody cuts like us") then you would be using the objective case 'us' not 'we'. So 'us' would be proper. When you say "like we do" you are using 'like' as a conjunction with a restated clause ("we do"). I think both are proper, I just think it sounds better used as a conjunction. But "like us" as a prepositional phrase doesn't make any sense in this context. The preposition "like" indicates some type of equation between the object of the preposition and the word the prepositional phrase modifies. It's like the prepositional equivalent of a linking verb. Therefore, prepositional phrases using "like" should modify nouns, as in "a friend like me" or "Life is like a box of chocolates." Even though in the second example a traditional diagram would put the preposition under the verb, at a deeper level it is really a predicate adjective expressed as an adjectival prepositional phrase. So if the sentence were "Nobody is like us," that would be fine. But because "cuts" is not a linking verb, there really is no noun for a prepositional phrase "like us" to modify. Therefore, the "like" should be interpreted as a conjunction rather than a preposition, and should be followed by "we" instead of "us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 But "like us" as a prepositional phrase doesn't make any sense in this context. The preposition "like" indicates some type of equation between the object of the preposition and the word the prepositional phrase modifies. It's like the prepositional equivalent of a linking verb. Therefore, prepositional phrases using "like" should modify nouns, as in "a friend like me" or "Life is like a box of chocolates." Even though in the second example a traditional diagram would put the preposition under the verb, at a deeper level it is really a predicate adjective expressed as an adjectival prepositional phrase. So if the sentence were "Nobody is like us," that would be fine. But because "cuts" is not a linking verb, there really is no noun for a prepositional phrase "like us" to modify. Therefore, the "like" should be interpreted as a conjunction rather than a preposition, and should be followed by "we" instead of "us." :D I knew I asked the right folks. DH asked me which I thought was correct, and we both felt "like we do" was the better option. I told him the Hive could probably tell us which is correct and the why behind it. DH and I wonder what exactly went on in grammar class because neither of us learned it well. He has a PhD and I have a master's degree, which makes it even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeetime Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 But "like us" as a prepositional phrase doesn't make any sense in this context. The preposition "like" indicates some type of equation between the object of the preposition and the word the prepositional phrase modifies. It's like the prepositional equivalent of a linking verb. Therefore, prepositional phrases using "like" should modify nouns, as in "a friend like me" or "Life is like a box of chocolates." Even though in the second example a traditional diagram would put the preposition under the verb, at a deeper level it is really a predicate adjective expressed as an adjectival prepositional phrase. So if the sentence were "Nobody is like us," that would be fine. But because "cuts" is not a linking verb, there really is no noun for a prepositional phrase "like us" to modify. Therefore, the "like" should be interpreted as a conjunction rather than a preposition, and should be followed by "we" instead of "us." Got it. You're totally right, that makes sense. It's been too many years since high school, I'd better brush up on this stuff before my oldest child gets into more difficult grammar! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Got it. You're totally right, that makes sense. It's been too many years since high school, I'd better brush up on this stuff before my oldest child gets into more difficult grammar! :tongue_smilie: :001_smile: Well, to be fair, I had excellent grammar instruction in high school, but I wouldn't have been able to explain all this then. The B.A. in English and M.A. in Applied Linguistics were very helpful. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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