Singapore Math 2a/b question: What is essential?

[lorisuewho]

Bottom line question: If you had to drop one of the components of SM 2a/b what would be the first to go?

 

We are using Rightstart B this year and I have been supplementing with singapore 1 a and b. Next year I plan to use singapore 2 a/b as our spine, but I will be supplementing with other math programs. I don't want have two much workbook work. What should I get from 2 a/b?

 

I plan to definitely get the HIG because it is our spine. I'm confused on whether to get the textbooks AND the workbooks AND the IPs AND the CWP, or

could I leave out the workbooks on the intensive practice? Or maybe it is better to just drop off the textbooks? This year we honestly hardly ever look at the textbook. I usually teach the material and we then move right to the workbook. I'm not sure where to "cut corners" so to speak so we have time and energy for other math things.

Edited February 12, 2012 by lorisuewho

[NotAVampireLvr]

We use the HIG, Textbook & Workbook. I actually think that the workbook can be overkill, but we do it anyway since we don't write in the TB. We also use Intensive Practice, which is a favorite here. When we order for the next level I'm probably getting: HIG, Textbook, Workbook and IP. We sill be skipping Word Problems and Extra Practice since we ordered them for this past level and they never got used.

 

We use Singapore as our main math program and supplement with Miquon and online activities.

[chepyl]

We have the text, wkbk, HIG, IP and CWP and use nothing else. That combo gives lots of practice, too much sometimes. We skip some of the text exercises and when we do them we do it orally. We rarely use the HIG, we do ablittle mental math in it, but usually just use the text exercises for mental math. If you want challenge, I would get the IP and CWP, the word problems are my son's favorite part.

[Candid]

Honestly at the 2 level I'd lose the HIG and use the text as spine use the workbook and IP.

[Doodle]

Doodle is currently in level 3a. I get math. Doodle gets math. Therefore, while I owned the HIGs for level 2 while we were doing that level, I did not use them. I have not used the HIG for level 3a yet either. We do not use the textbooks. I had them for level 2, but did not use them. We simply do the workbook exercises. So, for us, the workbook is the only essential component.

[lorisuewho]

Thank you for your responses. I don't know whether to invest in the HIGs or not now.

However, I still need to cut down on the pencil work. Maybe I need to get the CWP, IP, and the workbook, but just mix up what we do and not feel compelled to do every page!

[NotAVampireLvr]

Thank you for your responses. I don't know whether to invest in the HIGs or not now.

However, I still need to cut down on the pencil work. Maybe I need to get the CWP, IP, and the workbook, but just mix up what we do and not feel compelled to do every page!

 

 

that sounds like a plan... going with or without a HIG is a completely personal decision. For me, where I am not a math person at all I've found it to be invaluable. I actually do the lesson by myself the night before to make sure I have it straight since my math skills are weak and I have a difficult time with some concepts, nevermind teaching them! My husband doesn't need it when he does the lessons.

[Crimson Wife]

Honestly at the 2 level I'd lose the HIG and use the text as spine use the workbook and IP.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

But if you really love the HIG, then I guess you could try teaching with it in lieu of the textbook.

[lorisuewho]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

But if you really love the HIG, then I guess you could try teaching with it in lieu of the textbook.

 

Do you think I can just apply the same techniques we used in Rightstart to teach the math (instead of getting the HIGs)? Base ten blocks, the abacus, number balance, etc?

[thegirlwhopaintedtrees]

Do you think I can just apply the same techniques we used in Rightstart to teach the math (instead of getting the HIGs)? Base ten blocks, the abacus, number balance, etc?

:iagree:

I do.

 

And we write in the textbook and if she doesn't get it, I use the corresponding pages in the workbook. She likes the textbook better because it is colorful and gets tired of repetition, especially if she gets it. For 1a, we used only the workbook and it was like pulling teeth and she didn't like math anymore. Now, she enjoys math again. We also play a lot of the RS games to supplement. I have the 1b HIG and have never looked at it.

[kbpaulie]

Didn't read responses to others, but re: SM. We're finishing 4 & 1. I don't get the HIG until 3rd grade, and still find that we use it mostly for answers rather than as a guide. IP has some challening word probs in it so we've never used CWP just b/c we can't do it all. I'm also finding that IPa is usually more of what we need than b. We use both the text and workbook. Some days we skip the text, but I think I'd continue to purchase it. HTH.

[lorisuewho]

Thank you for all these responses. Looks like most of you do not use the HIG at level 2.

[brownie]

We use the text and wkbk in 2A. We almost never do the problems in the text right now bc he finds much of level 2 to be easy. However, I do refer to it to see HOW I am supposed to teach it at all levels. That it because I am not using the HIG right now! I think you need one or the other if you want to teach it the Singapore way or there are times it would be hard to know what they want.

 

For ex., I am teaching 5A right now and there is a section on mental math. There are a few teaching bubbles in the wkbk but if you really want to know the skills they are trying to build, you can look in the text. Otherwise, the kid could proceed not using mental math at all! They are trying to build toward the distributive property and it's really kind of neat, but honestly the way they want you to do it doesn't seem to save any work the "mental way". There's a reason behind it though. I needed the text to realize that.

 

Brownie

[lorisuewho]

Based on these responses I think I will purchase the textbooks for us to work through the exercises orally, (skip the workbooks since they seem a bit repetative with the textbooks), and get the IP and CWP for the pencil work. And I'll skip the HIGs for this level.

Thanks for giving advice everyone!

[Crimson Wife]

Do you think I can just apply the same techniques we used in Rightstart to teach the math (instead of getting the HIGs)? Base ten blocks, the abacus, number balance, etc?

 

Yes. I didn't bother getting the HIG for Singapore 1A and barely use the 1B HIG because I had taken my older student through RS B & C. I did borrow copies of the 1B-2B HIG's from the lending library of our virtual charter but it remains to be seen how much I'll end up using them.

 

At the 3A & higher levels, I do rely heavily on the HIG's.

[lorisuewho]

Yes. I didn't bother getting the HIG for Singapore 1A and barely use the 1B HIG because I had taken my older student through RS B & C. I did borrow copies of the 1B-2B HIG's from the lending library of our virtual charter but it remains to be seen how much I'll end up using them.

 

At the 3A & higher levels, I do rely heavily on the HIG's.

 

Thank you! This is helpful.

[Spy Car]

I'll be the contrarian.

 

I think there is a danger in the early years of not laying a solid foundation and not making math a subject that involves a good deal of "play" with activities, games, and concrete manipulatives rounding out "book learning."

 

For short-hand call this latter aspect "developmental" learning. Having a fair share of developmental learning tends to make math an enjoyable activity for children, plus it is a very effective way to learn/teach concepts to children in a way that capitalizes on their propensity to enjoy play and exploration.

 

One does not have to use the HIGs to get activity based math ideas. One can use their own minds, use RS games (and other ideas), use Miquon, use MEP Lesson Plans, use Zaccaro, Kitchen Table Math, read "living math" books, and/or draw on other resources.

 

But the HIGs do synthesize a lot of good developmental ideas into an easy package, and that is helpful for those who want this (IMO) vital component in their math-mix, but don't have umpteen hours to invent, borrow, and steal ideas from a myriad of sources.

 

The HIGs will not be helpful to those who just leave them on the shelf, and might be counter-productive for parents who just use them as "answer-keys" rather than working through the problem solving strategies along with their child.

 

I wish the HIG author had chosen Cusienaire Rods rather than "linking cubes" as the main manipulative (I think she missed the boat here) but the lessons are all quite easily transposed to C Rods if one is so inclined.

 

The HIGs also contain content that addresses things that a teacher is "expected" to teach that may (or may not) be clear from just using the Textbooks and Workbooks. In Singapore teachers are highly trained in the "Math Method" and the HIGs try to bridge the gap for home educators.

 

The HIGs are not perfect. It has been discussed frequently, as for many it has been a "stumbling block" for many, that the recommendation in Level 1 that children have all their "math facts" memorized before "moving on" is out-of-whack with where most children are at in their math progression.

 

I am one who thinks it is better to consciously work on acquiring "automaticity" through repeated working of the math strategies in Singapore and supplemented with game playing and other developmental means, rather than drilling with flash-card drills, so the skills develop organically and the re-grouping strategies that make the Singapore Math Model so effective (as it is scalable) is truly mastered. "Memorizing" can short-cut the process of skill mastery.

 

Those issues aside, the HIGs are helpful to parents in laying a sting foundation in Singapore style math from the outset, and it building activity based play into the program.

 

As I sad earlier, it is not the only way to accomplish these goals, but for most parents who want a well rounded program they are a boon.

 

My advice would definitely depart from those who suggest one doesn't "need" the HIGs until Level 3, as the foundation you build on is critical, and the early years are when "play," activity based learning, and concrete problem solving tools are most needed.

 

By having a developmental approach to early math (a Math-Lab approach in Miquon-speak) finds a Third Way between developmentally inappropriate "formal academics" and its antithesis of delayed academics. Bursts of play-based learning are very effective in opening children's minds to concepts and in building problem solving skills.

 

There are multiple ways to accomplish the teacher education a parent/teacher should have if they are teaching the Singapore Model Method, and various ways to make developmental learning a part of the math-mix. Few are as efficient as using the HIGs.

 

Bill

Edited February 13, 2012 by Spy Car

[lorisuewho]

I'll be the contrarian.

 

I think there is a danger in the early years of not laying a solid foundation and not making math a subject that involves a good deal of "play" with activities, games, and concrete manipulatives rounding out "book learning."

 

Bill

 

 

Thank you for taking out the time to respond. I agree with the main point of your post. We have been using Rightstart A and now B as our main curriculum, with occassional miquon, but for the most part the abacus is a better "click" with me than the rods. We have also been doing SM 1a/b when it is information that is not being covered in RS.

 

If the HIGs are packed with ideas (like RS) that will give me more creative and concrete ways to present new concepts, then I will happily purchase them. The teaching/playing portion of math is the best part of the lesson!

 

Really, the main point of my original question, is to see if there is a way for me to cut down on the pencil/paper work in the program, so that we don't get bogged down in that, especially since I want to add in a supplemental program.

 

I am thinking of skipping buying the regular workbooks, and just doing the "pictorial" learning from the text, and then using the IP and CWP for the practice portion. I felt that in levels 1a/b the text has been a bit redundant for my child; although I don't know if that will be the same as we move to level 2?

[Spy Car]

Thank you for taking out the time to respond. I agree with the main point of your post. We have been using Rightstart A and now B as our main curriculum, with occassional miquon, but for the most part the abacus is a better "click" with me than the rods. We have also been doing SM 1a/b when it is information that is not being covered in RS.

 

If the HIGs are packed with ideas (like RS) that will give me more creative and concrete ways to present new concepts, then I will happily purchase them. The teaching/playing portion of math is the best part of the lesson!

 

Really, the main point of my original question, is to see if there is a way for me to cut down on the pencil/paper work in the program, so that we don't get bogged down in that, especially since I want to add in a supplemental program.

 

I am thinking of skipping buying the regular workbooks, and just doing the "pictorial" learning from the text, and then using the IP and CWP for the practice portion. I felt that in levels 1a/b the text has been a bit redundant for my child; although I don't know if that will be the same as we move to level 2?

 

Using RS and Miquon you know what it's like to have "developmental" methods built into ones math mix. For some parents it is easy to take the "example" of activity based learning and apply it as new topics come up, and/or they have many activity based resources to draw upon. These folks need the HIGs less (or perhaps not at all) than parents who have never done anything but "workbook" based learning.

 

The methods in RS are quite compatable with Singapore, and (especially as you like the abacus) it would be good to cross-pollinate. For teacher education you might look at Parker and Baldridge. You (personally) may or may not need the HIGs. I think they are a pretty good synthesis of games and activities, especially for people who are not naturally "creative" in coming up with their own and/or pulling in ideas from multiple sources.

 

There are a number of people who skip the Workbooks in favor of the IPs. Personally, I like to use the Textbooks in a very teacher-intensive approach, where I prod and poke and question to make sure concepts are well understood, or—if not—I can try to either explain more fully or set up activities that work on the problem areas.

 

The Workbooks I like to use as independent (or semi-independent) "practice" where my child can work on gaining competence in the "basics." With my child, he needs both. Then the IPs are used randomly to provide challenge and haphazard review. For my son going from teacher intensive work in the Textbooks (where I generally serve as the "scribe") to working independently in the IPs would be too great a leap.

 

In the way we Primary Mathematics removing the Workbook would take way the one component where there is little, if any, "hand-holding." If we treated the Textbook as an independent "workbook" it would remove the interactive "tutoring" time from the mix. Neither is a desirable option to me.

 

People's needs are different. And when time is short and one is supplementing something generally has to give. I face the same conundrums myself.

 

Bill

[lorisuewho]

Using RS and Miquon you know what it's like to have "developmental" methods built into ones math mix. For some parents it is easy to take the "example" of activity based learning and apply it as new topics come up, and/or they have many activity based resources to draw upon. These folks need the HIGs less (or perhaps not at all) than parents who have never done anything but "workbook" based learning.

 

The methods in RS are quite compatable with Singapore, and (especially as you like the abacus) it would be good to cross-pollinate. For teacher education you might look at Parker and Baldridge. You (personally) may or may not need the HIGs. I think they are a pretty good synthesis of games and activities, especially for people who are not naturally "creative" in coming up with their own and/or pulling in ideas from multiple sources.

 

There are a number of people who skip the Workbooks in favor of the IPs. Personally, I like to use the Textbooks in a very teacher-intensive approach, where I prod and poke and question to make sure concepts are well understood, or—if not—I can try to either explain more fully or set up activities that work on the problem areas.

 

The Workbooks I like to use as independent (or semi-independent) "practice" where my child can work on gaining competence in the "basics." With my child, he needs both. Then the IPs are used randomly to provide challenge and haphazard review. For my son going from teacher intensive work in the Textbooks (where I generally serve as the "scribe") to working independently in the IPs would be too great a leap.

 

In the way we Primary Mathematics removing the Workbook would take way the one component where there is little, if any, "hand-holding." If we treated the Textbook as an independent "workbook" it would remove the interactive "tutoring" time from the mix. Neither is a desirable option to me.

 

People's needs are different. And when time is short and one is supplementing something generally has to give. I face the same conundrums myself.

 

Bill

 

Thank you for your explanation of how you use the various components of SM. The HIG is something I definitely wish I could preview before purchasing. Perhaps I will spend some time looking over the scope and sequence of SM 2 to see if I already have ideas on how to present that information.

 

As for the workbook or just IP, I just don't know. I have it all this year and we have used pieces of each but nothing in its entirety. It seems like a waste of money, and yet, each piece has its value.

 

Thank you again for your thoughts.

[Spy Car]

Thank you for your explanation of how you use the various components of SM. The HIG is something I definitely wish I could preview before purchasing. Perhaps I will spend some time looking over the scope and sequence of SM 2 to see if I already have ideas on how to present that information.

 

As for the workbook or just IP, I just don't know. I have it all this year and we have used pieces of each but nothing in its entirety. It seems like a waste of money, and yet, each piece has its value.

 

Thank you again for your thoughts.

 

My pleasure.

 

One resource I will mention (since you enjoy the RightStart abacus) is the "Activities for AL Abacus" book. As you may know, this was the precursor program to RS. It is not scripted in the same way as RS, but has the core of the method. It might be helpful if you want to continue bringining in RS-like ways into the mix.

 

Best wishes!

 

Bill

[lorisuewho]

My pleasure.

 

One resource I will mention (since you enjoy the RightStart abacus) is the "Activities for AL Abacus" book. As you may know, this was the precursor program to RS. It is not scripted in the same way as RS, but has the core of the method. It might be helpful if you want to continue bringining in RS-like ways into the mix.

 

Best wishes!

 

Bill

 

You are most excellent in my mind right now! I totally forgot I already own that book! I put it away when I went ahead and bought the full program for RS A & B. I was just mulling over whether I wanted to buy rightstart c, but it is soooo way out of the budget if I'm buying most of singapore 2, plus I don't have time for the full program. But now that you mentioned "Activities for Al Abacus", that is the answer!! I can use the al abacus book instead of rightstart c as we move into SM 2! I'm so thrilled right now! :001_smile: Perfect!

[Spy Car]

You are most excellent in my mind right now! I totally forgot I already own that book! I put it away when I went ahead and bought the full program for RS A & B. I was just mulling over whether I wanted to buy rightstart c, but it is soooo way out of the budget if I'm buying most of singapore 2, plus I don't have time for the full program. But now that you mentioned "Activities for Al Abacus", that is the answer!! I can use the al abacus book instead of rightstart c as we move into SM 2! I'm so thrilled right now! :001_smile: Perfect!

 

Well that worked out! :D

 

Sometimes it pays to be...er, uh...loquacious :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill