Anyone with Classical Conversations experience, please advise.

[cheryl h]

So in our process to figure out what would be the best thing for our dd13 for high school next year, we have again come back to a strong "maybe" on Classical Conversations. We think very highly of the program, but have not been able to afford it. I have attended some of their free training practicums, and have a pretty good "outsiders" understanding of what it entails and have several friends with their kids in it constantly telling me about what they are doing. We use many of the same materials for school at home, I even use their memory cd's and a few other tools.

 

So, I know it is traditional to start at Challenge A, regardless of age, but I think that Challenge A and most of Challenge B would be redundant to her. I think for the map drawing skills, she would have to learn that quickly, but she is capable of that and to some extent has done some of that at home. She has done the same IEW, is farther along in Science, and the History would not be a problem for her. No, we haven't done any Latin. This is probably the biggest hurdle, but maybe not the end of the world.

 

Am I completely off my rocker by thinking she could be ok starting in Challenge 1, or in the very least Challenge B? I would prefer Challenge 1, but maybe that is just not done without previous CC experience. In addition to being redundant, I am concerned with the material in Challenge B not lining up with what she needs for a high school transcript and our goal is for her to move to the local dual enrollment program when she is 16. So at most she would probably only get through Challenge II before she went on to a full schedule at the community college.

 

What do you think?

[G5052]

A 13 y.o. would be fine in Challenge B. Many 13 y.o. start at the "B" level and do just fine. My oldest did Challenge A at 12 and Challege B at 13.

 

The Challenge I Directors I know don't accept 13 y.o. Over the years they've found that they don't do as well, especially if that is the first level of Challenge. There are some tougher books at that level in terms of emotional content -- Through Gates of Spendor, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc.

 

And at our campus, the entire class of Challenge II is either graduating or going to dual enrollment.

 

Every group is a little different, but I don't see anything wrong with your plan.

[jamajo]

My DD did Challenge A at 13 her official 8th grade year but she had only been home for a half a year out of "traditional" school. She didn't possess a lot of the skills that other homeschoolers have if they've been home exclusively.

 

Challenge A did just that - challenged her and set the bar for what was to follow in her high school studies. She had never studied Latin but her tutor thought my daughter's allowed her to succeed and do just as well as her peers who had experience in the Foundations and Essentials programs. The only reason I didn't keep her in the program was I was looking to follow a more traditional high school curriculum that mirrored the requirements of what the state required for a high school diploma. Also like you, I will be looking to do dual enrollment. My plans just didn't flow with what the Challenge program offered in the upper grades.

 

I am very glad we did Challenge A for the Latin exposure, the writing, and the positive peer pressure. I believe the skills my DD learned there she now uses in our current studies. If the only thing your daughter lacks is the Latin she may do well in B with a little hard work on her part. If you want the traditional courses for high school, CC's scope and sequence may not flow well with that plan.

[cheryl h]

A 13 y.o. would be fine in Challenge B. Many 13 y.o. start at the "B" level and do just fine. My oldest did Challenge A at 12 and Challege B at 13.

 

The Challenge I Directors I know don't accept 13 y.o. Over the years they've found that they don't do as well, especially if that is the first level of Challenge. There are some tougher books at that level in terms of emotional content -- Through Gates of Spendor, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc.

 

And at our campus, the entire class of Challenge II is either graduating or going to dual enrollment.

 

Every group is a little different, but I don't see anything wrong with your plan.

 

Thank you for your insight. If, dd13 did start CC next fall, she would actually be 14 1/2. She is an advanced reader, and has the emotional maturity to handle the issues brought up in the books you mention, in fact she has already read To Kill a Mockingbird several times, done the PP study guide, and we've had a lot of discussion. She has already read every book listed in the Challenge A and B list, as well as a large number of Challenge I and above titles as well. This is actually one of the things that would be overly redundant for her. She has very good lit analysis skills already...she lives for Literature. Our alternative plan for Lit if she doesn't do CC is to either do AP Lit at the local public school, or do it at home(God help us!) and take the test.

 

I really have no concerns at all about her meeting the challenges in the Writing, Literature, History, Science, or the presentations. I have a little concern about the fact that we have not done formal Logic, but I can try to fit this in the second half of this year. My biggest concern is Latin, but I am not sure if my concern is over-reactive based on the amount of Latin the other kids have done having been in CC previously. I know Rosetta Stone Spanish is not a rigourous foreign language program, but she has very high retention and loves/has a high interest in learning different languages, I am just spread too thin to provide her more opportunity to do so. I know she would be a very eager learner regardless of past exposure to Latin, which may make all the difference.

[Brenda in FL]

If I were in your shoes - I would start with Challenge I. She's the right age and then you would be able to get in Challenge IV for her senior year - and that looks like one of the best years!

 

We started Challenge A with DS in 8th grade - so traditionally - he'd be a year behind. (9th grader in Challeng B next year) We may do an extra year of highschool to get in Challenge IV if its available and he's wanting to do that before college.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about Latin - They will be starting at the beginning of Henle Latin 1. It will be at a faster pace then Ch A and B, but it will be starting at the beginning. You could possibly get the materials now and start memorizing the conjugation and declension endings. All 3 Challenges will be starting Henle at the beginning, going faster and further along each year.

 

Since she's a strong writer and already familiar with IEW - that's a plus as well.

 

The only other thing to consider are the other kids in the group and if they would be a good fit. The community of students is a big part of the program. I would visit the Challenge B group now that would be the group moving up to the same Challenge program next year and also the Challenge tutor she'd have next year, if its different from the one teaching now.

 

I really like the whole concept of Challenge. I just hope that there will be communities open and with the proper level as we go along! I'll have two in Challenge next year!

[cheryl h]

If I were in your shoes - I would start with Challenge I. She's the right age and then you would be able to get in Challenge IV for her senior year - and that looks like one of the best years!

 

We started Challenge A with DS in 8th grade - so traditionally - he'd be a year behind. (9th grader in Challeng B next year) We may do an extra year of highschool to get in Challenge IV if its available and he's wanting to do that before college.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about Latin - They will be starting at the beginning of Henle Latin 1. It will be at a faster pace then Ch A and B, but it will be starting at the beginning. You could possibly get the materials now and start memorizing the conjugation and declension endings. All 3 Challenges will be starting Henle at the beginning, going faster and further along each year.

 

Since she's a strong writer and already familiar with IEW - that's a plus as well.

 

The only other thing to consider are the other kids in the group and if they would be a good fit. The community of students is a big part of the program. I would visit the Challenge B group now that would be the group moving up to the same Challenge program next year and also the Challenge tutor she'd have next year, if its different from the one teaching now.

 

I really like the whole concept of Challenge. I just hope that there will be communities open and with the proper level as we go along! I'll have two in Challenge next year!

 

Thank you for the encouraging words concerning Latin. This is exactly what I was hoping would be the case. Your thoughts on the chemistry of the existing group are good. We do know several of them, and I don't think it would be a problem at all. Maybe a little of questioning if she's really up to the task without having been in CC before, but I am positive she would prove herself quickly. We have discovered this age group is a little socially ruthless regardless of whether they are homeschooled, Christian, or otherwise...facts of life, especially girls. The truth is the local high school is such a social cesspool that the thought of sending her there even part-time makes me physically ill.

 

The local CC group currently only offers through Challenge B, they are eagerly awaiting someone to step up to be a tutor for Challenge I since they have a group of kids waiting to move up to Challenge I.

[Kim in SouthGa]

I agree with Challenge I. My dd started B in January, and while the Logic has been challenging, everything else has been pretty easy for her. We have always homeschooled classically, so I'm sure that has helped her. She will be 13 in March, and I am planning to put her in Challenge I in the fall.

I have spent several hours reading the website and looking at samples of WAS, and I am so impressed with Challenge. I wish it would have been here locally when my oldest started high school!

[G5052]

Being 14-15 is the ideal time for Challenge I, in my opinion. If her education has been rigorous, there's no reason to start with Challenge A or B. Our campus has a large number of 9th graders coming from a local Christian school who have only used the standard textbook approaches, and for them, Challenge I would indeed be too much to start with.

 

Apart from the curriculum, indeed look at the Director and peer relationships. We had one year that was agony on both fronts although academically it was a good year. This year my oldest did Challenge I but we did Latin and math on our own because he is beyond what our campus provides, and so I decided not to put him in Challenge II. At some point you have to choose to embrace CC for nearly all of their education, or go your own way, and we are at that point. We'll see how it plays out with my next one as they begin Challenge A.

[cheryl h]

At some point you have to choose to embrace CC for nearly all of their education, or go your own way, and we are at that point.

 

Golly, yes, this is also a HUGE concern. Their science simply doesn't line up with what we do at home. She will be ready to do Apologia Bio next year, and CC does a different sequence. Will she be able to just follow along with what they do in class(as wonderful review of course), but keep up with doing Bio at home? I don't know. We were thinking of putting ds11 in Challenge A next year if dd13 goes, but we are pretty set in keeping with General Science for 7th, Phys Science for 8th, and Bio for 9th and would largely try to stay with that at home regardless. From this stand point CC doesn't really work for us, but there is more to life than academics, relationship is also very, very important.

 

Our biggest leaning for having our kids participate in CC is community, positive peer pressure, and an outside source of accoutibility. It is THE only homeschool co-op of anykind withing a 45 min. driving distance. We've already been there done that in the closest private Christian school, and don't think the education is worth the money...CC is far, far more rigourous. We've only been away from the school for 2 1/2 years and have surpassed them academically, so we don't really consider going back an option right now.

[Cindy in C-ville]

The science scope and sequence is one of the reasons we're investigating other options for next year, including a classical Christian school. I have a "science-y" kid who would be hurt by the CC plan.

 

We've had kids in Challenge A, B, and II this year, so I can't really speak to the content of Challenge I. B is a ton of fun with the whole mock trial thing, but I just wish they would do physical science for that year.

[cheryl h]

Can anyone give me an idea of what CC's Challenge I science assignments are like? This will help me decide whether she would have time to do Bio at home independantly. This wouldn't be my first choice, but if she gets a little review of Phys. Science, and it isn't so much work to get done that it interfere's with Bio, well...that wouldn't so bad.

[G5052]

Can anyone give me an idea of what CC's Challenge I science assignments are like? This will help me decide whether she would have time to do Bio at home independantly. This wouldn't be my first choice, but if she gets a little review of Phys. Science, and it isn't so much work to get done that it interfere's with Bio, well...that wouldn't so bad.

 

At our campus they do the labs in class, and have time to start the lab write-ups there. Mine almost always finishes in class, so he only does the textbook at home. I grade his exams, and the Challenge I Director records them.

 

Science is another reason we decided to go our own way. I want more than I see at CC (maybe other campuses do it differently), especially for bio/chem/physics.

[cheryl h]

At our campus they do the labs in class, and have time to start the lab write-ups there. Mine almost always finishes in class, so he only does the textbook at home. I grade his exams, and the Challenge I Director records them.

 

Science is another reason we decided to go our own way. I want more than I see at CC (maybe other campuses do it differently), especially for bio/chem/physics.

 

This is information I can use to make a decision. Thank you.

[cheryl h]

Has anyone had their child pursue any AP testing goals while doing Challenge I or II...did the curriculum choices of CC help a lot with doing this? I would assume probably not for Science, but maybe Geography, Literature, or History?

[Brenda in FL]

Has anyone had their child pursue any AP testing goals while doing Challenge I or II...did the curriculum choices of CC help a lot with doing this? I would assume probably not for Science, but maybe Geography, Literature, or History?

 

I'd like to hear some input in this area as well. Anyone?:bigear:

[Brenda in FL]

We were thinking of putting ds11 in Challenge A next year if dd13 goes, but we are pretty set in keeping with General Science for 7th, Phys Science for 8th, and Bio for 9th and would largely try to stay with that at home regardless. From this stand point CC doesn't really work for us, but there is more to life than academics, relationship is also very, very important.

 

.

 

Do you need to stay with this progression to accomplish what you want for grades 10-12? Or do you want to stay the course in case CC doesn't work out for all four years? I'm interested - because I hadn't really thought through how that would affect us (if we had to quit Challenge somewhere along the way for some reason). My first impression was that science does seem light in the early years. But the CC philosophy isn't about teaching science but teaching a student to research using science as the source material.

 

A different issue we have with the science is that my DH isn't thrilled about the use of Apologia

 

Oh-oh - I just realized that if DS graduates after Challenge III, he won't have 4 science credits! Great - now I've got to figure out how to make Ch B HS credit worthy - ANy takers on that question?

[Joy at Home]

Do you need to stay with this progression to accomplish what you want for grades 10-12? Or do you want to stay the course in case CC doesn't work out for all four years? I'm interested - because I hadn't really thought through how that would affect us (if we had to quit Challenge somewhere along the way for some reason). My first impression was that science does seem light in the early years. But the CC philosophy isn't about teaching science but teaching a student to research using science as the source material.

 

A different issue we have with the science is that my DH isn't thrilled about the use of Apologia

 

Oh-oh - I just realized that if DS graduates after Challenge III, he won't have 4 science credits! Great - now I've got to figure out how to make Ch B HS credit worthy - ANy takers on that question?

 

I would have him take a general science course (Apologia or other) along with Challenge B.

 

Lisa

[G5052]

I would have him take a general science course (Apologia or other) along with Challenge B.

 

Lisa

 

I know someone who did an earth science class with an earth science fair project along with Challenge B, but some colleges aren't going to like Earth Science, Physical Science, Biology, and Chemistry. The more selective colleges are going to want Biology and Chemistry either Physics or something beyond Biology and Chemistry.

 

I'm going to take the Challenge B physical science and do a month-long Chemistry course after CC so that I can call it Integrated Physics and Chemistry, which is weighed better than Physical Science for college admissions.

[jenniferlee]

Sort of along the same lines,

I've been looking at CC for my 9th grader next year. But my main hang up is Apologia. I don't want young earth creationism for science. So could we just do our own science and skip theirs, or would this be a big issue through the whole program? I mean would it mess up doing CC? I feel really caught.

[G5052]

Sort of along the same lines,

I've been looking at CC for my 9th grader next year. But my main hang up is Apologia. I don't want young earth creationism for science. So could we just do our own science and skip theirs, or would this be a big issue through the whole program? I mean would it mess up doing CC? I feel really caught.

 

This year I paid for Latin and Math that was below the level we covered at home, but the rest was strong enough that I'm satisfied that we got what we wanted for $. I like the integration of subjects, but the single-package approach won't match everyone's goals.

[Joy at Home]

Sort of along the same lines,

I've been looking at CC for my 9th grader next year. But my main hang up is Apologia. I don't want young earth creationism for science. So could we just do our own science and skip theirs, or would this be a big issue through the whole program? I mean would it mess up doing CC? I feel really caught.

 

I don't see this as being a problem at all. Dd's science and math are never going to line up with Challenge (she's doing Biology at home this year in Challenge A). She is also doing Saxon Algebra while the class is on Prealgebra. I figure what she sits through in class is just review.

 

It used to be a student could select only certain "seminars" in Challenge, though now they want a student to enroll in the whole class. There's always going to be students who are not going to fit into their math and science sequence and, while it should be a consideration, I don't think it needs to be a dealbuster. It's all personal choice and weighing your goals against what is offered.

 

Having said that, I'm not absolutely certain dd will continue with Challenge I as I had planned. We are having a great year and I think it's been very beneficial to her, just need to work through some things in my own mind about my goals for her the next few years.

 

Good luck with your decision!

Lisa

[jenniferlee]

Thanks for your insights/experience. I love the idea of the accountability and interaction. Especially for Latin and writing and debate. It such a hard decision. It's a lot of money.

I guess I also feel unsure about leaving the WTM history rotation. We're right on schedule with year 4, if we did CC we'd be basically redoing it next year...

I'm not enjoying trying to figure this all out right now. High school planning:tongue_smilie: