I've done my visual processing evaluation duty...

[Tiramisu]

and dd does not need vision therapy!!! The FELLOW said everything was normal except for one area, and he was able to confirm that the problem is a relative processing slowness unrelated to visual processing. Could he have her do something to work on the processing? Well, maybe, he said, but dd is already compensating very well and what she is already doing is better for improving processing than anything he could offer--musical activities and lots of reading for pleasure.

 

It's so nice to get good news and a pat on the back, too.

[PeterPan]

Well good, hurray!!!!!!! One less thing to worry about!!!!!! I don't even remember why you decided to go, but that's awesome to be cleared on that account. That means you get chocolate to celebrate, right? :)

 

PS. The only thing to help with the processing thing is to insert mexican jumping beans behind their corneas. It's a really expensive surgery; don't try.

[PeterPan]

Sorry, I'm just being crazy there, lol. After the slow processing speed thread on the other board, I don't know... I mean I WISH there was something magic we could do... After reading DA and understanding this spacing thing in the brain, I honestly think it just is what it is. But I don't know. If there's a magical cure, I'm all ears. I think you could speed up any process that you did over and over, where you developed a lot of wiring, kwim?

[Tiramisu]

Well good, hurray!!!!!!! One less thing to worry about!!!!!! I don't even remember why you decided to go, but that's awesome to be cleared on that account. That means you get chocolate to celebrate, right? :)

 

PS. The only thing to help with the processing thing is to insert mexican jumping beans behind their corneas. It's a really expensive surgery; don't try.

 

Haha. I've been eating spoonfuls of Nutella this evening, but I was a good girl and ate my dinner first. I also stopped by Whole Foods on the way home from the evaluation and bought lots of heathly greens for salad lunches, and thought of you. ;) See the influence you have on me, Elizabeth.

 

We got the evaluation because dd has a form of CAPD that often goes along with visual and visual-motor issues, so we wanted to rule out anything like that.

[PeterPan]

Well you must be SO relieved!

 

And yes, I'm terribly proud of you for eating your greens. They counteract the Nutella, meaning you can eat more. :)

[Tiramisu]

Sorry, I'm just being crazy there, lol. After the slow processing speed thread on the other board, I don't know... I mean I WISH there was something magic we could do... After reading DA and understanding this spacing thing in the brain, I honestly think it just is what it is. But I don't know. If there's a magical cure, I'm all ears. I think you could speed up any process that you did over and over, where you developed a lot of wiring, kwim?

 

Our sweet COVD fellow basically said the same thing. I think that's why he was pleased dd reads so much. I suppose he thinks dd will eventually reach a higher degree of automaticity, and thus speed, with more difficult reading selections through practice. It seems like it would hold true for anyone, but for dd the speed variability was significant: it was either way above or way below her peers depending on the reading difficulty level. (Her comprehension was excellent no matter the difficulty level, BTW.) He said you wouldn't find that kind of variation in speed if it was a simple visual processing issue.

 

My library still hasn't purchased DA, even though I requested it.

 

Now, I'm going to go find that processing speed thread.:auto:

[PeterPan]

Wow, that's fascinating. But at least you got the answers you needed. I wonder if speed reading software would help? Then it would give her consistent pacing, right? I actually don't know how it works, just wondered.

 

Yeah, you've already gotten the jist. They might even say something similar on their (the Eides') blog. Basically you have mini-columns in the brain, and the farther apart they are, the longer it takes to build those connections. So with kids who have them far apart, the kids will end up with lots and lots of connections to all over, rather than just the closest connects, like more typical kids. So you get kids who make all sorts of bizarre connections but not necessarily the most obvious ones. Or they just take a LONG time to cement something, because their brain is taking the long way to get there.

 

Now you know the jist. Back to your chocolate. :)

[Tiramisu]

I think this coop year has been good for the reading. I see that she's now grabbing more difficult books for fun, like non-fiction written for adults.:)

 

When she starts reading the brain books I leave around, then we're really in trouble. She may start analyzing me and posting on these boards.:lol:

[peacefully]

.

[PeterPan]

When she starts reading the brain books I leave around, then we're really in trouble. She may start analyzing me and posting on these boards.:lol:

 

Well you know that recently controversial thread on the other board where some people were speaking about SN kids in less than flattering ways? Well let's just say the teenage SN kids who *do* read the boards didn't appreciate it. They *are* noticing this stuff. I tell her we're changing the world, one family at a time. :)

[brownie]

So does slow processing speed often result in slow reading? Brownie

[Tiramisu]

So does slow processing speed often result in slow reading? Brownie

 

It did in my dd, according to the COVD doc. However, I would have never known it in real life. Never. Dd read constantly. Everywhere we go she has a book in her hand, or now, her Kindle. I knew her writing was slow but not her reading.

 

At the appointment, the doctor had dd wear computerized goggles and read different passages. The computer monitored her tracking and speed, and I'm not sure what else. He said without this technology it would be hard to pick up the kind of differences he measured because it comes down to how long the eyes focus on each word. I think he said it comes down to hundredths of a second of difference.

 

I think slow processing speed can slow down everything. At the same time, I think there is room for variation for activities that have become automatic. Then, at the same time, you can't ignore working memory. Working memory is like RAM on a computer. Some brains can only hold so much at once and then things start getting lost. So if you're dealing with a relatively low working memory when there are higher cognitive demands, things can really get bogged down and everything could go a lot slower. Also, with a lower working memory, I think automaticity takes a lot more time to achieve. This is how I interpret it. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

 

HTH!

[PeterPan]

So does slow processing speed often result in slow reading? Brownie

 

Nope, my dd has a slow processing speed and is a blisteringly fast reader. There's something to the idea of widely-spaced mini columns in the brain making it take longer to make connections but having them be more intricate once their made. I *think* that's also supposed to affect processing speed, not sure. The book "The Dyslexic Advantage" by the Eides tells a lot about it.

[brownie]

Thanks - I've requested the book. Brownie

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Tiramisu]

I must have missed that one. :confused: Were SN kids being dogged specifically, or was it one of those "delays / poor scores = educational neglect" threads?

 

Not exactly, more like differing viewpoints between what's a character problem and what's slow processing. I do think unless you really live it, it can be very hard to understand. Even when you live it, it's hard to understand, unless you've done the evaluations, of course, and see how what they're supposed to quantify jives with what you're seeing in real life.

 

I have a sympathy for the person who is skeptical of slow processing because I live it and still don't get it. I still have an expectation that I'm fighting everyday of what I want dd to do and what she can do. I still struggle with why can't this obviously very bright girl doesn't just get done what I want her to get done, when she's honestly overloaded. The person who did our cognitive evaluation told me to cut the workload, give her twice as much time as the curriculum suggests. Have I ever done it? No! Does dd cry because of it? Yes. I still want her to do a reasonable college prep curriculum. I still want her to do her music because that is most likely her future. I still want her to have other creative opportunities like drama and time with her friends. So, what do I give up? Sometimes I think, it's okay, we'll just get done what we can. Other times, I stress out that she's don't doing enough even though I know she can't possibly do anymore. I just want her to do the best she can, and I don't know if I will ever know what that is, depite the fact that numerous specialists have identified the same quirks, each from their own angle. And she's only one of the bunch I'm responsible for.

 

I know I got such great news yesterday. But oh! we've had a rough day today for all the reasons above. I feel like hiding under my covers, but my work is not over yet.:crying:

[PeterPan]

I must have missed that one. :confused: Were SN kids being dogged specifically, or was it one of those "delays / poor scores = educational neglect" threads?

 

Ooo, that one sounds juicy too! No, it was the one Kelli mentioned, the one where someone implied that if our kids shaped up or were better disciplined or just wanted to and sucked up enough, they could be all they need to be. Yeah, and I'm Vanna White. I could be, but it would take more plastic surgery than it's worth. :D

[peacefully]

.

[merry gardens]

....I have a sympathy for the person who is skeptical of slow processing because I live it and still don't get it. I still have an expectation that I'm fighting everyday of what I want dd to do and what she can do. I still struggle with why can't this obviously very bright girl doesn't just get done what I want her to get done, when she's honestly overloaded. ....I know I got such great news yesterday. But oh! we've had a rough day today for all the reasons above. I feel like hiding under my covers, but my work is not over yet.:crying:

Yesterday. Ug. I ate my reserve of emergency chocolate.

 

I dug up and read that thread from OhE's post history yesterday morning. It probably contributed to my foul mood, along with another thread on the general board about public school graduates with poor academic skills.

 

Anyway, some of us who think we have quick processing skills are really slow to process the very idea of slow processing. On top of that, I forget that my ds has memory problems, and so I get frustrated when he forgets things. Whose really got the slow processing and memory problems? :lol:

[Tiramisu]

Ooo, that one sounds juicy too! No, it was the one Kelli mentioned, the one where someone implied that if our kids shaped up or were better disciplined or just wanted to and sucked up enough, they could be all they need to be. Yeah, and I'm Vanna White. I could be, but it would take more plastic surgery than it's worth. :D

 

FWIW, Elizabeth, I'm so very glad you're not Vanna White. And, when I make my TV appearance I'll send you a link so you can see I'm not Vanna White either. :)

[Tiramisu]

:grouphug::grouphug: I totally get like this too. I have those moments of panic because I am so sure that ds is not doing enough. It's an insidious feeling of inadequacy all wrapped up in the sheep's wool of... oh, I don't know... parental resolve? I get like that on our bad days, but when I get moments of clarity, I can totally see that we are doing enough. Plenty. So are you and your daughter.

 

The best thing that we can do for our kids is to give them time for their development to catch up their potential. My dh (moderate to severe dyslexic) had the rare experience of being in a private school for kids with LDs when he was in elementary. He also had accommodations, aides, and resource all throughout his secondary education. He didn't take AP classes. He did one extracurricular activity. What all these special services and "reduced load" gave him was the luxury of time. He is always telling me that the most important thing that kept his self-concept as a learner intact was that time.

 

He ended up going to a high-caliber college, created his own major within a very flexible department, went to medical school on a full academic scholarship, and is now a very successful doctor.

 

I just mention his story again, mostly because I need to remind myself that in the LD world, laying the foundation takes a very, very long time indeed. Our kids aren't going to match up with their peers perhaps until well into adulthood, and all the "rigor" in the world isn't going to get them there any faster.

 

Lately, I've been trying to edit myself every time I catch myself characterizing ds as a slow-processor. I've taken to calling him "my deep thinker." :D Somehow, this completely changes my attitude about what kind of work he needs to be doing. :001_smile:

 

Okay, I'm going to tackle my self-talk starting now.;)

 

Thanks for sharing your dh's story it makes me feel very hopeful.

 

In my logical mind, I know I don't have to do a curriculum like everyone else for my dc to reach their "potential". But then there are transcripts and college applications...My poor right-brained dc, for having such a boring, can't-get-out-of-the-box left-brained mom.:glare:

 

The funny thing is, I think they're all far better at everything than I was at their ages.

[Tiramisu]

Anyway, some of us who think we have quick processing skills are really slow to process the very idea of slow processing. On top of that, I forget that my ds has memory problems, and so I get frustrated when he forgets things. Whose really got the slow processing and memory problems? :lol:

 

This is so very true for me, too. :grouphug:

[peacefully]

.

Edited February 10, 2012 by yllek

[PeterPan]

Yesterday. Ug. I ate my reserve of emergency chocolate.

 

I dug up and read that thread from OhE's post history yesterday morning. It probably contributed to my foul mood, along with another thread on the general board about public school graduates with poor academic skills.

 

Anyway, some of us who think we have quick processing skills are really slow to process the very idea of slow processing. On top of that, I forget that my ds has memory problems, and so I get frustrated when he forgets things. Whose really got the slow processing and memory problems? :lol:

 

Oh my, for a minute there I misread and thought *I* had posted something to make you discouraged! But if it was other stuff in that thread, well yeah it was pretty, well we won't even go there. But you know, the world has room for all kinds of people. Our kids are going to run into all kinds of people. Just blow it off.

 

Don't eat chocolate. I have for the last year and a half to deal with my stress, and I gained 20 pounds. Now I'm taking it off. I'm down 12 pounds already, and want to drop another 25! That's all since Christmas. I've been bookin' it. :D

[PeterPan]

:grouphug::grouphug: I totally get like this too. I have those moments of panic because I am so sure that ds is not doing enough. It's an insidious feeling of inadequacy all wrapped up in the sheep's wool of... oh, I don't know... parental resolve? I get like that on our bad days, but when I get moments of clarity, I can totally see that we are doing enough. Plenty. So are you and your daughter.

 

The best thing that we can do for our kids is to give them time for their development to catch up their potential. My dh (moderate to severe dyslexic) had the rare experience of being in a private school for kids with LDs when he was in elementary. He also had accommodations, aides, and resource all throughout his secondary education. He didn't take AP classes. He did one extracurricular activity. What all these special services and "reduced load" gave him was the luxury of time. He is always telling me that the most important thing that kept his self-concept as a learner intact was that time.

 

He ended up going to a high-caliber college, created his own major within a very flexible department, went to medical school on a full academic scholarship, and is now a very successful doctor.

 

I just mention his story again, mostly because I need to remind myself that in the LD world, laying the foundation takes a very, very long time indeed. Our kids aren't going to match up with their peers perhaps until well into adulthood, and all the "rigor" in the world isn't going to get them there any faster.

 

Lately, I've been trying to edit myself every time I catch myself characterizing ds as a slow-processor. I've taken to calling him "my deep thinker." :D Somehow, this completely changes my attitude about what kind of work he needs to be doing. :001_smile:

 

Yllek, I didn't REALIZE your dh went to one of those dyslexic schools!!! I thought his mother homeschooled him or something. Well cool. You know the biggest thing the np told us was to give dd TIME. He specifically said NOT to make her so busy with academics and trying to keep to whatever that she was worn out and didn't have time and energy to do her own thing, that she needed time for that artistic, creative side. There's such a rush to things, once you hit junior high and high school. It's easy to slow it down in elementary, but come high school the theory is to ramp them up and wear them out, sorta like med school, in the name of doing a good job. You can feel it and see the pressured blood flowing like drops from their heads. And if you aren't pressuring them and pushign them, well you aren't doing a GOOD JOB. I hate that, because that's all I've ever wanted to do is do a GOOD JOB. And their very definition isn't going to turn my dd into a productive, happy soul.

 

So I'm making a new definition. I don't even know what it is yet, but I'm making it. :D

[Tiramisu]

Yllek, I didn't REALIZE your dh went to one of those dyslexic schools!!! I thought his mother homeschooled him or something. Well cool. You know the biggest thing the np told us was to give dd TIME. He specifically said NOT to make her so busy with academics and trying to keep to whatever that she was worn out and didn't have time and energy to do her own thing, that she needed time for that artistic, creative side. There's such a rush to things, once you hit junior high and high school. It's easy to slow it down in elementary, but come high school the theory is to ramp them up and wear them out, sorta like med school, in the name of doing a good job. You can feel it and see the pressured blood flowing like drops from their heads. And if you aren't pressuring them and pushign them, well you aren't doing a GOOD JOB. I hate that, because that's all I've ever wanted to do is do a GOOD JOB. And their very definition isn't going to turn my dd into a productive, happy soul.

 

So I'm making a new definition. I don't even know what it is yet, but I'm making it. :D

 

I hear you, Elizabeth. All I ever want to do is to do what's right. And it's been so very hard to shift my thinking about what's the right way to educate my dc.

 

Dh, who usually leaves hsing to me, expressed similar thoughts to yours last night, so it's totally cool to read your post now.

 

In high school in Germany, dh usually started school around 8:15 or so and got out at one. He did a reasonable amount of homework and then he was free to pursue hobbies or hang around with friends. He doesn't know why there is so much pressure these days, when he was educated well in a rather modest amount of time. He has a job that he loves, teaching subjects that few others could, and a great many hobbies and active interests. He said very strongly that he'd like to see our dc do the MINIMUM of what we think of as school so that they can have time to be kids, to play and pursue their interests. He also said, when it comes to schooling we're creating our own stress.

[PeterPan]

I had NOT heard that! I even had friends from Germany when I was in college. Guess it's one of those things you don't think to ask, lol. 8:15 to 1, yup that's pretty good... And I'll bet there were some inefficiencies there too (lunch, class changes, etc.). Or maybe they went home for lunch after that?

[laundrycrisis]

Sorry, I'm just being crazy there, lol. After the slow processing speed thread on the other board, I don't know... I mean I WISH there was something magic we could do... After reading DA and understanding this spacing thing in the brain, I honestly think it just is what it is. But I don't know. If there's a magical cure, I'm all ears. I think you could speed up any process that you did over and over, where you developed a lot of wiring, kwim?

 

What is DA ?

[Tokyomarie]

I had NOT heard that! I even had friends from Germany when I was in college. Guess it's one of those things you don't think to ask, lol. 8:15 to 1, yup that's pretty good... And I'll bet there were some inefficiencies there too (lunch, class changes, etc.). Or maybe they went home for lunch after that?

 

They have lunch after school and it, historically, tends to be the main meal of the day- based on my experience with friends in Germany.

[Tiramisu]

They have lunch after school and it, historically, tends to be the main meal of the day- based on my experience with friends in Germany.

 

Yes, that's right.

[Heathermomster]

What is DA ?

The book The Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides, a husband and wife team. I can't recommend that book enough.

[nancyb]

I just want to say thank you for this thread. When my son was tested last summer at Learning RX his processing speed was in the 2nd percentile. We spent much of the last year in vision therapy for convergence insufficiency. I believe his processing speed has increased but I know it is still far below normal.

 

I get soooo frustrated with him. And then I get so frustrated with myself for being frustrated with him. Anyway, reading through your comments has encouraged me.

 

My son graduated from VT several months ago. We have continued to work on the arrow chart with the metronome. We have a follow up with the VT DR tomorrow and I am trying to think of what I need to ask. His spelling is atrocious, he hates to write and he is slow as molasses in everything.

[PeterPan]

I just want to say thank you for this thread. When my son was tested last summer at Learning RX his processing speed was in the 2nd percentile. We spent much of the last year in vision therapy for convergence insufficiency. I believe his processing speed has increased but I know it is still far below normal.

 

I get soooo frustrated with him. And then I get so frustrated with myself for being frustrated with him. Anyway, reading through your comments has encouraged me.

 

My son graduated from VT several months ago. We have continued to work on the arrow chart with the metronome. We have a follow up with the VT DR tomorrow and I am trying to think of what I need to ask. His spelling is atrocious, he hates to write and he is slow as molasses in everything.

 

Nancy, when you've done everything VT and Learning RX can do, it's time for a neuropsych eval. Sounds like you've got some stuff going on. The neuropsych will quantify it (cuz the molasses thing is not your imagination), talk about reasonable accommodations and what can be done about it, and help you sort out how to handle things. In our case her processing speed is, well let's just say it's WAY lower than her IQ. I didn't catch the age of your dc, but this really creates a huge problem as you approach junior high and high school. Makes teaching algebra, languages, etc. really interesting. ;)

 

So get the neuropsych eval. Take your time to find a good one. They really vary as far as how long they spend, how helpful they are, etc. If you have feedback from someone who used them, that would be good. I just called and talked with them, asking how long they spend testing, how long (how many pages) their reports are, how they are with homeschooling, etc. F

 

For us testing was a huge turning point in getting realistic. Highly recommend. And sometimes those diagnoses open more doors for things to do to work on the problems. You want that full neuropsych eval. Don't just go on VT doc testing.

[Tiramisu]

I just want to say thank you for this thread. When my son was tested last summer at Learning RX his processing speed was in the 2nd percentile. We spent much of the last year in vision therapy for convergence insufficiency. I believe his processing speed has increased but I know it is still far below normal.

 

I get soooo frustrated with him. And then I get so frustrated with myself for being frustrated with him. Anyway, reading through your comments has encouraged me.

 

My son graduated from VT several months ago. We have continued to work on the arrow chart with the metronome. We have a follow up with the VT DR tomorrow and I am trying to think of what I need to ask. His spelling is atrocious, he hates to write and he is slow as molasses in everything.

 

As frustrating as it is, and because it's as frustrating as it is, having a slow-processor or even a relatively slow processor is a great opportunity to build virtue ourselves. We live lifestyles that have become very disordered in their pace. Our society places an unnatural and unhealthy value on speed. Maybe we need to look at our slow processors and learn from them.

 

Of course, we still need to manage to live in this world and we don't want our dc to suffer....So now you can look back at OhE's post. ;)

[nancyb]

Thanks again ladies! The follow up today went fairly well. When the dr walked in and saw I had notes, he immediately asked what my concerns were. I told him that ds (age 10) was reading on his own and that his overall attitude has greatly improved. His processing speed seems to have generally improved as well.

 

But after at least 6 months of faithfully working on the arrow board we are still only at 103 bpm and roughly 120 bpm is normal. Also there are consistent letter/number reversals and spelling is awful.

 

Could he just be a bad speller? Is he still making letter reversals because he has only been able to see letters without them moving on the page for a few months? What else can I do besides the arrow board to help with fixation and processing speed?

 

He gave me some things to work on at home but said he thinks they let us out of therapy too soon. He wants to start over with a full 1.5 hour eval.

 

He was kind of apologetic about ending vt too early. I don't think he let us out too soon. Our biggest concern when starting vt was he had severe convergence insufficiency causing letters to jump all over the page. I think they focused on that and cured him completely! I will forever be grateful for that.

 

Now it's time to see what other issues were hiding under the convergence issues. I'm kind of relieved that they may be able to help him further. He's come so far and he is such a good kid. I hate to see him struggle.

 

FWIW, we haven't actually done learning rx. When they first opened here they offered free evals. I knew something was going on, but I wasn't sure what. Shortly after the learning rx eval, we figured out it was convergence insufficiency and were sent to vt. I was so thankful because the vt and learning rx program a very similar. I knew he needed it but I didn't know how I was going to pay for it.

 

At some point I probably do need to have a neuropsych eval just to make sure we are doing everything we can. Is that covered by insurance? Insurance paid for all of my vt last year, and I am hoping since we are in a new plan year they will pay for this years as well.

[PeterPan]

When you did VT, did they work on visual *processing* or only the basics like accommodation, focusing, etc.?

 

We didn't use an arrow board like you're describing. I wouldn't get too hung up on that. Processing speed is *not* something the VT is going to dramatically change, because that's how the brain is wired. I suppose someone will say it can nudge it. Great. But I'm saying low processing speed is a neuropsych thing. To me, and this is just me, I would ask a few questions or do a little more thinking before you go paying more money to that VT doc. Are you having VISION symptoms or something else? How could they let you out of VT too early? The doc checked you, told you you were done, and now they want to do more? On what justification? That's kind of vague. And then to do another expensive eval, that would have me hot to trot. It's kind of like chiropractors. They'll crack your back with every symptom you come in for. Sometimes it was what you needed, sometimes it wasn't. ;)

 

VT docs are generally better than that, but the potential exists. The whole situation sounds a little screwy. Did he PASS the tests they gave him in order to graduate from VT the first time? They should have had devices and numbers they were looking for as far as scores. If he PASSED those, and what remains is processing speed not vision, then I would go get the neuropsych eval.

 

I would get the neuropsych eval anyway. And if this VT doc didn't do visual processing after the basics, then I would find a new VT doc.

 

Don't buy into one practitioner too much. If he screwed up that much the first time, he could screw up again. And if he's just using your worry to suck you into VT you don't need, he's a scum bucket.