If you dislike Achilles, you have to read

[Jayne J]

Caroline Alexander's book "The War That Killed Achilles: The True Story of Homer's Illiad and the Trojan War." I read it thinking it would be a more archaeological/historical survey of the subject, but it was really more of a commentary and apology for Achilles. Most modern readers (including myself up until now) have seen Achilles as little more than a pouty soldier-boy throwing an epic tantrum, but Alexander challenges that view and really throws into relief some ideas and themes I'd overlooked, making a great argument for the heroism of Achilles. It really changed my view of the Illiad.

Just putting it out there for Illiad students who might like a new angle.:D

[Kfamily]

Thanks! I'm beginning to read it myself to prepare for dd's reading of it. This looks interesting...I'll check my library.

[Matryoshka]

Hehe - my kids' favorite part of the Iliad was Achilles' poutiness. They just loved it when he threw a big hissy fit.

 

We did also listen to Vandiver's Iliad lectures which also explain Achilles' actions as being reasonable in the context of the values of the time, even though they seem like a big tantrum to modern eyes. :tongue_smilie:

[BakersDozen]

Hehe - my kids' favorite part of the Iliad was Achilles' poutiness. They just loved it when he threw a big hissy fit.

 

My dc got so frustrated with the "immature boy-in-a-man's-body" as they called Achilles. :D It was fun listening to their reactions as they went through the Iliad.

[Candid]

Hehe - my kids' favorite part of the Iliad was Achilles' poutiness. They just loved it when he threw a big hissy fit.

 

We did also listen to Vandiver's Iliad lectures which also explain Achilles' actions as being reasonable in the context of the values of the time, even though they seem like a big tantrum to modern eyes. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes! She really makes clear what exactly he is upset about, and she further shows us what huge break in world view he has when he suggests that honor and glory aren't worth it.

[Miss Marple]

The Vandiver lectures from The Great Courses really opened my eyes to the fact that words have different meanings over time and in different societies. Our modern idea of "honor" truly gets in the way of understanding Achilles. Ms. Vandiver suggests that Achilles was, indeed, acting honorably in terms of the ancient use of the word. The idea of word meaning changing over time or in different societies has changed many of my assumptions and has made me think through things before jumping to conclusions (particularly regarding Biblical interpretations).

 

My son and I were standing in the checkout line at the college bookstore yesterday when I saw the Alexander book. I was intrigued...now I have a good reason to go out and buy it. Thanks.

[Jayne J]

I'll have to see if I can find the Vandiver lectures you are talking about. Alexander did a great job of showing how the Illiad highlighted questions like should a smarter/better/more capable person submit to the leadership of a less capable/intelligent person? What duty does a soldier have to obey his commander? What is a soldier's duty, or a man's, to his country/people/cause? What if he doesn't believe in the cause? It really cast Achilles in a more modern light--less a warrior pouting over his honor, and more a capable leader and soldier drawing a line and saying he won't fight for an incompetent leader in a war he didn't start and doesn't believe in.

 

I still like Hector better, but I have a new respect for Achilles.:D