A question about obedience

[Aspasia]

My 4-year-old is good about obeying in a lot of ways but lately it seems like every time I ask her to do something, she resists or argues. It's getting really, really old. So I have been talking to her about obeying the first time and I've even been thinking about instituting some kind of system to reward instant, unargued obedience.

 

But here's the thing: every time I talk to her like that or talk to dh about my frustrations and how I wish she would respond, there is a part of me that is sorta rubbed the wrong way. It's the part of me that thinks it's good and healthy to question authority. So I worry that if I create a child who always obeys me without question (which would be arguing with me), am I also creating a person who just obeys other authority figures without question? Because I don't want to do that.

 

How do I strike a balance here, where I can function in my home on a daily basis without yelling at my kid, but where I ultimately raise a critically thinking, norm-questioning adult?

[Caitilin]

Have you given her a response that will allow her to obey, even if not instantly? Like, can she say, "just a minute, Mom, I am finishing________?" I think there are things that need instant obedience, like running in the street, and things that don't, like picking up their dolls. I think you have to give even a small person a measure of autonomy, which may manifest as less-than-instant obedience. :001_smile:

[redsquirrel]

Well, it would never occur to me to expect unthinking obedience from my children so I may not be the person you want to hear from. I don't give anyone my unthinking obedience so why would I expect if from my kids?

 

4 year olds argue. So to 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 etc etc year olds. I don't mind (most of the time) as long as they speak to me in a polite tone. That is what bothers me. I don't appreciate being snapped at. I generally say "Can you say/ask that is a polite manner/respectful tone, please?" I give them a chance to rephrase and we move forward.

 

I appreciate it when my kids argue or question what I say. Quite often I have to admit that I am telling them no or asking them to do something in a particular way for no good reason other than 'I said so' or for my own convenience. My kids are great at coming up with alternatives and if they are valid I will accept them. I do posit to them in that way. If you are going to be a roadblock then you have to help come up with a solution.

 

They know that not everything is up for discussion. I have the final say on everything and sometimes they just have to do what I tell them to do. I think that because 85% of the time I am willing to meet them half way I get a much better response for that other 15%.

 

The arguing is only beginning. I think it is best to spend these years focusing on the process. My almost 12 year old is very polite and doesn't fly off the handle when things aren't going as he imagined. He knows if he has a concern he is welcome to speak up in a polite fashion and we can have a discussion. It won't always go the way he wants, but he knows he has a voice.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Adrienne, that is a great question!

 

As I was reading the first part of your question, I was thinking it was probably time to implement a set response protocol for a time.

For many families, it is "yes, ma'am" then the child complies.

 

However, that is NOT the end of it (well, it is for many families, but certainly not thinking families like yours!). From there, you teach kiddo HOW to broach issues with you appropriately. At first, you may want her to do this AFTER she complies. Then you'll teach her how to do it in the moment.

 

So in the moment, if you decide you want her to comply first (at least now while she is four and isn't really able to discern when to "argue" and not), you would encourage the set response. Then as she does that, you let her know you can let her know that you'll be glad to hear her out after she complies. Then, of course, you teach her how to do that appropriately (respectfully, thoughtfully, only when she needs to, etc). In a year or two, you may teach her that sometimes she can do it respectfully in the moment such as "May I take out the trash after I finish this chapter?"

 

An alternative is to teach her to ASK to "argue" (or it may be to ask when you will entertain discussion). The benefit of this is that you can do it now rather than waiting. The drawback is that it doesn't give her opportunity to learn to JUST comply rather than ask each time. It *really* depends on the child on that one.

 

I choose obedience first, then discussion until they have that down. That gives them a little more time to mature before introducing the other. That year or two really seems to make a difference because they internalize what types of issues are worth discussing later and which can just be dropped. That information helps them IN the moment really well.

 

Additionally, when you're speaking of young children or those who have taken to arguing about *everything,* compliance first gets rid of the safety issue. You seriously do not want your child to do their own thing or question you when you are in a safety situation.

 

HTHs a little. Again, I think it is worth high commendation that you are being so mindful in your parenting!

[Parrothead]

Have you given her a response that will allow her to obey, even if not instantly? Like, can she say, "just a minute, Mom, I am finishing________?" I think there are things that need instant obedience, like running in the street, and things that don't, like picking up their dolls. I think you have to give even a small person a measure of autonomy, which may manifest as less-than-instant obedience. :001_smile:

:iagree: There is cheerful obedience and then there is automaton. i'm all for cheerful obedience, but am not above bribery at times. :D

 

Model the behavior you expect. Help your dd with ways to obey but at the same time be her own person.

[tonersl]

Adrienne, that is a great question!

 

As I was reading the first part of your question, I was thinking it was probably time to implement a set response protocol for a time.

For many families, it is "yes, ma'am" then the child complies.

 

However, that is NOT the end of it (well, it is for many families, but certainly not thinking families like yours!). From there, you teach kiddo HOW to broach issues with you appropriately. At first, you may want her to do this AFTER she complies. Then you'll teach her how to do it in the moment.

 

So in the moment, if you decide you want her to comply first (at least now while she is four and isn't really able to discern when to "argue" and not), you would encourage the set response. Then as she does that, you let her know you can let her know that you'll be glad to hear her out after she complies. Then, of course, you teach her how to do that appropriately (respectfully, thoughtfully, only when she needs to, etc). In a year or two, you may teach her that sometimes she can do it respectfully in the moment such as "May I take out the trash after I finish this chapter?"

 

An alternative is to teach her to ASK to "argue" (or it may be to ask when you will entertain discussion). The benefit of this is that you can do it now rather than waiting. The drawback is that it doesn't give her opportunity to learn to JUST comply rather than ask each time. It *really* depends on the child on that one.

 

I choose obedience first, then discussion until they have that down. That gives them a little more time to mature before introducing the other. That year or two really seems to make a difference because they internalize what types of issues are worth discussing later and which can just be dropped. That information helps them IN the moment really well.

 

Additionally, when you're speaking of young children or those who have taken to arguing about *everything,* compliance first gets rid of the safety issue. You seriously do not want your child to do their own thing or question you when you are in a safety situation.

 

HTHs a little. Again, I think it is worth high commendation that you are being so mindful in your parenting!

:iagree:

[jar7709]

Wonderful question. I struggle with this too. One thing that helped me was the thought that I am aiming to "raise adults" and not "raise children", if that makes sense...in other words, my goal here is to treat my children like people--yes, they are still children now and need guidance, but if I wouldn't demand that DH or some other respected adult to drop what they are doing RIGHT NOW to come help me with some task that seems arbitrary from their point of view, then maybe I should back up a step on that demand of my children, too.

 

Since I came on that idea, my interactions with the kids are smoother. Rarely what I want them to do needs to be done rightnow...clearing the table can wait until they are finished with the chapter of the book or whatever. So now I say things like, "please find a stopping place and then come help me with X" or, "we need to leave for our appointment at X time, which is 15 minutes from now, so please take a minute to put X aside and then come put your shoes on."

 

So, that's what is working for us for now. I found that it turned out that this approach had the added benefit that the kids can now tell when I truly mean "do it RIGHTNOW", because I rarely start out from the perspective of RIGHTNOW. Of course it took some time to get to this point but you've got to start somewhere, and we started by reminding them that it is rude to make someone ask for something more than once. Finally, after many months, I don't usually have to ask for something more than twice. :lol: