What level of mental maturity is needed before beginning MCT Island level?

[Rosie]

I've been advised that my 6yo should be fine beginning Island level with my 8yo as long as I am willing to do the writing exercises orally and slow down if need be. I am.

 

What I'm wondering, though, is if there is a certain amount of mental maturity needed before beginning MCT. I haven't seen this specifically talked about in the past threads on MCT that I've been reading through.

 

Can anyone comment on this?

[....]

Honestly, I would wait until 3rd grade. I know some people use it sooner. We have MCT stuff all over our school room...I'm getting ready to order his literature studies...I mean, we love his stuff.

 

Reading Grammar Island to the kids is one thing, but when they have to do the 4-level analysis in Practice Island...that's when it gets difficult. Even I have to look at the answers sometimes. :tongue_smilie: I think a younger child might not have the same kind of retention that an older kid would have. Even my 4th grader keeps forgetting the difference between subject complement and direct object.

 

Edited to say: do you have the Grammar Island series? You might buy it, take one look at it and :eek:. There's no way my 6 yro would sit thru that.

Edited November 26, 2011 by starrbuck12

[Rosie]

Honestly, I would wait until 3rd grade. I know some people use it sooner. We have MCT stuff all over our school room...I'm getting ready to order his literature studies...I mean, we love his stuff.

 

Reading Grammar Island to the kids is one thing, but when they have to do the 4-level analysis in Practice Island...that's when it gets difficult. Even I have to look at the answers sometimes. :tongue_smilie: I think a younger child might not have the same kind of retention that an older kid would have. Even my 4th grader keeps forgetting the difference between subject complement and direct object.

 

Edited to say: do you have the Grammar Island series? You might buy it, take one look at it and :eek:. There's no way my 6 yro would sit thru that.

 

Thank you for sharing this. I like to see alternate opinions. No, I don't have the Grammar Island series yet. I probably should just buy it and see what I think, but I was kind of hoping I could find it used or, if I decided to wait to start it, then I'd not have to buy it yet.

[....]

Thank you for sharing this. I like to see alternate opinions. No, I don't have the Grammar Island series yet. I probably should just buy it and see what I think, but I was kind of hoping I could find it used or, if I decided to wait to start it, then I'd not have to buy it yet.

 

Yeah, it's expensive!!

 

I'm not sure if this helps, but we don't start MCT LA until the end of 3rd grade (in the spring). We school year-round, but you could even start it at the beginning of 4th grade and the content is beyond most 4th grade grammar programs (IMO).

 

Also, we use a separate writing program (Classical Composition), because it's not enough writing for us.

[matilda]

If I were trying to combine kids who were two years apart, I think that I would wait. You could start when they are 10 and 8 and then beef up the grammar portion for the 10yo. It would be easier to do that than to dumb down the writing for a 6yo.

[Rosie]

Gosh, I am so conflicted on this! The reason I want to start now is because my oldest needs something more for LA and I think this would be perfect. And, since it is a teacher-intensive program, I want to combine my girls if at all possible.

 

Maybe the question I should be asking, though, is, "Would it hurt my oldest to wait a year to start MCT? Will she be fine doing less LA this year?" I think the answer is probably yes.

[....]

Gosh, I am so conflicted on this! The reason I want to start now is because my oldest needs something more for LA and I think this would be perfect. And, since it is a teacher-intensive program, I want to combine my girls if at all possible.

 

Maybe the question I should be asking, though, is, "Would it hurt my oldest to wait a year to start MCT? Will she be fine doing less LA this year?" I think the answer is probably yes.

 

I have a 10 yro, almost-9 yro, 6 yro and 4 yro. I don't think you will ever be able to combine LA for your kids (who are 2 years apart). By the time the 6 yro catches up to where the 8 yro is now...the oldest kid will be ready for logic stage writing.

 

Also gotta add: There's a big range of abilities with a 6 yro and 8 yro. My 3rd grader wrote a 2 page paper on the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria...but my 6 yro can't really even write her own sentences yet. She just copies a sentence from our reading into her notebook.

Edited November 26, 2011 by starrbuck12

[Rosie]

I have a 10 yro, almost-9 yro, 6 yro and 4 yro. I don't think you will ever be able to combine LA for your kids (who are 2 years apart). By the time the 6 yro catches up to where the 8 yro is now...the oldest kid will be ready for logic stage writing.

 

 

That's a good point,... though I was planning on doing Sonlight's LA for grade 3 readers with both of them pretty soon and just doing more/different dictation for my oldest. Also, I'd expect less from my youngest as far as level of writing.

 

I guess maybe another question I should be asking is, "What are the areas of LA that can be done with a wide age range and which parts need to be done separately?"

 

So, the areas of LA that I can think of are...

 

Phonics

Spelling

Handwriting

Vocabulary

Grammar/Punctuation

Composition

 

(And under composition there are a whole lot of sub-categories, I think.)

 

My girls don't need phonics or spelling and they each have their own handwriting book, so I don't have to worry about those. Vocabulary seems like it could be done together. Grammar, I'm not sure about since I've only just decided that we might actually need it. Composition is where they will definitely be at different levels for quite a while.

[Kuovonne]

I don't think you will ever be able to combine LA for your kids (who are 2 years apart). By the time the 6 yro catches up to where the 8 yro is now...the oldest kid will be ready for logic stage writing.

 

:iagree:

 

You can go ahead and start MCTwith the 8yo, without the 6yo. Let the 6yo listen in on the stories, but don't require her to participate.

[Rosie]

:iagree:

 

You can go ahead and start MCTwith the 8yo, without the 6yo. Let the 6yo listen in on the stories, but don't require her to participate.

 

 

But won't that add a significant amount of teaching time to my schedule once they are both doing MCT? That's what I'm trying to avoid.

[8filltheheart]

But won't that add a significant amount of teaching time to my schedule once they are both doing MCT? That's what I'm trying to avoid.

 

I personally can't imagine combining LAs for younger kids. I do combine my 7th and 10th grader for grammar/writing instruction, but even then, what I expect from them in output from the writing instruction is completely different.

 

I guess I also question the definition of MCT being that teacher intensive. ALL grammar/writing instruction SHOULD be taught by a teacher (vs. handing them a book to do on their own.) It also shouldn't take that much time. 30 mins each/day is pretty much a fairly good estimate/day of what it takes for me to teach my kids grammar/writing.

[zoo_keeper]

I'm going to have to disagree with the posters here who can't imagine combining LA for children 2 years apart. We do, partially. That is, they each have their own workbooks (GWG, WWW) that they do individually. But MCT's Island level is done together in the evening, storytime-ish. (We do math the same way, individual SM books but LoF together in the evening. History, too.) While my eldest gets the most out of MCT, I also direct questions to my younger/middle daughter (e.g., what are the nouns in this sentence?). They love it, I love it, I don't see a problem with treating LA as a cycle and picking the middle daughter up again in a few years. I figure between the 2 different programs and approaches they'll be good to go. I haven't seen the subsequent levels, maybe they ramp up quickly and we'll have to slow down, but I figure I'm flexible and can find other story-like programs to fill the time. (Grammarland just arrived yesterday and is slated for after the GI level is finished in a few more weeks!)

 

ETA: Oh, and while they're both writing complete sentences (the middle daughter's spelling still needs work), we do the writing assignments/ideas orally.

[boscopup]

Grammar/writing instruction for a 6 year old shouldn't take you a lot of time anyway, so I don't see the problem with splitting them up for that. Sure, she can listen in on the 8 year old's MCT, but give her her own copywork, and if you want, grammar program. Looks like she's already doing PLL? So continue that with the 6 year old while the 8 year old does MCT. From all the threads I've read on MCT (and I've read a LOT of them :lol:), it looks like MCT usually takes 20-30 minutes a day at Island level, and that's to cover grammar, writing, vocab, poetry. So we're not talking hours and hours here.

 

I could see wanting to combine if you had 10 kids, and there just aren't enough hours in the day to teach each one individually for 2-3 hours. But 2 kids in early elementary? Especially with one being a first grader? That takes so little time to teach grammar/writing. I know you have a 3 year old, and that may or may not complicate things (I have a 2 year old, and that very much complicates things :tongue_smilie:), but still... it's early elementary. Grammar/writing shouldn't take very long, and I agree that it's a good idea to teach those subjects individually anyway.

 

My kids are all 2.5 years apart. My oldest is accelerated, and middle son has issues with language. So they are worlds apart in ability. I'm not even thinking about combining them in language arts... ever. We'll combine in history and science, at least to start out. Even there, they're at vastly different levels of understanding and ability. If younger one wants to sit in on a lesson with the older one, that's fine. But the younger one has his own work that is appropriate to HIS level.

[TracyP]

I followed your writing thread and really wanted to suggest MCT. I think she would love it and I think you will appreciate that it is not just boring old grammar year after year.

 

I do not think it is teacher intensive at all. I guess it could be if you had hopes that grammar/writing would be hands off for you, but I doubt that is what you were thinking. I have 5 kids and was so scared of the time commitment, but it has been a complete non issue.

 

You could absolutely let your younger dd follow along. I just wouldn't plan on not having to go through it again with her as an 8/9 year old. There is a lot of meat in Sentence Island. Your 6 yo may be able to understand most of the grammar but will probably not be able to apply the concepts in SI to her writing. To me, that is the whole point of grammar.

[nmoira]

You can absolutely do the Island level with a bright 6yo; however, this won't solve your problem beyond that first year. By the Town level, verbals are introduced, something beyond the grasp of most 7yo's. Consider doing it together this year, keeping things light for the 6yo, then either omitting grammar or doing another program for a couple years prior restarting MCT.

Edited November 27, 2011 by nmoira

[Kuovonne]

But won't that add a significant amount of teaching time to my schedule once they are both doing MCT? That's what I'm trying to avoid.

 

I think that overall, starting the 8yo in MCT now, and having the 6yo only listen in will be easier to teach vs. teaching them together.

 

If you start with just the 8yo now, you can go at her pace. You will spend less time trying to adapt the lessons to fit both kids. It will also free up more time later, as you won't have to cover as much material later.

 

Letting the 6yo listen on but not not requiring any output from her will save time because if she doesn't get it, you can still move on. You won't have to adapt for her skill level. By listening in, she will pick up on some concepts, which will save time later when you do formal grammar with her.

[Rosie]

I think that overall, starting the 8yo in MCT now, and having the 6yo only listen in will be easier to teach vs. teaching them together.

 

If you start with just the 8yo now, you can go at her pace. You will spend less time trying to adapt the lessons to fit both kids. It will also free up more time later, as you won't have to cover as much material later.

 

Letting the 6yo listen on but not not requiring any output from her will save time because if she doesn't get it, you can still move on. You won't have to adapt for her skill level. By listening in, she will pick up on some concepts, which will save time later when you do formal grammar with her.

 

 

As of right now (as in this exact second) this is what I'm leaning toward. I bought the Island level an hour ago so it should be here within a week. I guess I'll decide once I see it what exactly we'll do with it. I keep changing my mind pretty much hourly!:willy_nilly:

[boscopup]

I keep changing my mind pretty much hourly!:willy_nilly:

 

Welcome to the club! :D:tongue_smilie:

[acurtis75]

You can absolutely do the Island level with a bright 6yo, however, this won't solve your problem beyond that first year. .

 

:iagree: You don't have to skip the 4 level analysis all together with your 6 yo. I would either move slowly with the sentences in the practice island book or make up easier ones myself. My 6 yo is doing the sentences now and it is improving her understanding of grammar and good sentence structure. Another option would be to just use FLL and read the Grammar Island for fun.