LarrySanger Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 All, I'm new to this forum and semi-new to homeschooling. I've been teaching my son since before he was 1, and he's now 5, and we're "officially" homeschooling now, I figure, since most kids born when he was are in kindergarten. I've read a number of homeschooling books and thought and written (mostly for myself, but also on my blog) about education goals and methods. But I know I don't have all the answers and I thought it'd be fun to seek out your input on what we're doing! I think we're taking a roughly classical education approach. I guess I'm more in line with The Well-Trained Mind than any other of the books I've read, with a healthy dose of "real books"--we have five bookcases full of children's books, and I've read about 80-90% of these to my son over the last five years. I work at home and homeschooling I view as a (very intense) hobby, so I can actually be the main homeschooling parent. My wife helps, of course, and she is home as well. An ideal (if not typical) homeschooling day would involve my son doing Rosetta Stone Latin for 10-15 minutes before breakfast, then I read to him from a rotating stock of 6-7 books during breakfast. After breakfast I give him a "micro-lesson" on piano and then we spend anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes on math, and anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes on writing. After that, we often stop with the planned-out homeschooling and I go up to work, but sometimes he goes on to do drawing or typing. Lunch has more reading, another micro-lesson on piano, then something like 2-6 pages of geography reading, then he reads by himself for an hour, though sometimes this stretches into more than that. (I started teaching him to read when he was 22 months and is now reading at a very advanced level.) Dinnertime is more reading, another piano micro-lesson. Then before bed we read 2-4 pages of history (using SOTW as a background--we're now on volume 2) and then, usually, a chapter book for about 30 minutes. At the YMCA we do a sports class and an art class, and we also do a chess class. Here's how we approach the main subjects. Math: we're almost done with Singapore Math 1A. At the same time, we're mostly done with Two Plus Two Is Not Five (highly recommended), and every other week we do some of Life of Fred: Apples (not so excited about this--it's fine). We switch back and forth, day by day, between Singapore Math and 2+2=/=5. He likes math pretty well (didn't used to, but he does now), and has mastered most addition and subtraction facts. There are some things in SM 1A that are outside his comfort zone, but I'm trying to give him mastery and not just "get through the books." This is why we're doing 2+2=/=5. There's no race, the main thing is that I want him to have the stuff down cold, ultimately being able to do mental arithmetic and having a very solid foundation for higher math. Reading: well, we don't practice reading per se, because he is decoding words at a very advanced level and comprehending books somewhere around the 6-7th grade level. To give you an example, lately he read Henry and Ribsy (grade level equiv = 5.1) to himself, which was fun and not very challenging. He also read Harry Potter #2, which was a little more so. He re-reads SOTW and other history books during his hour of reading time. I give him comprehension questions (orally) and he usually gets them quite well--on factual material he often surprises me with what he remembers and understands. Beyond that, however, we don't do any special "reading comprehension" stuff, and I frankly I am wondering if that sort of Language Arts exercise isn't basically a waste of time if a child is reading a lot. We also aren't doing any significant amount of grammar, although we read a Basher book about punctuation which he greatly enjoyed and sometimes browses, and we'll read the one about grammar pretty soon here. Basically, I'm in the camp which believes that grammar is a subject that you can study once or twice in your academic career, but when you do you use a real grammar book and take a hard-nosed approach to it. Otherwise, you learn your grammar through daily writing and critique thereof, as well as copious reading of good models of writing. Writing: he's writing upper- and lowercase pretty well now. I assign him three sentences (minimum) a day, sometimes I say five or more. Sometimes I say "about anything," sometimes we "negotiate" a topic. Sometimes I hover over him and correct him as he writes, but more often lately he writes by himself, he shows me, I give him things to correct, and he erases and rewrites bits. I'm interested in looking into a writing program, but frankly I don't think either he or I have the patience or discipline to stick to somebody else's idea of good writing exercises. Sometimes he wants to write a "book": this involves me taking 2-3 pages of printer paper, folding them over, and stapling them across the "spine." He then gives it a title and writes something (1-2 sentences) on some of the pages, and also illustrates it. Sometimes he retells a story we've read. Sometimes I give him a rough outline to follow. Basically, this is the part of homeschooling that feels most "by the seat of our pants," but I do think we're making good progress. His spelling is excellent and effortless, I'm happy to say--not to say he doesn't make quite a few mistakes, but I never had to teach him any basics, because he has seen so much written language. He gets enough spelling practice from the words he picks himself in his compositions (that's what we call them) that I don't yet see a need to teach him spelling as a separate subject. History: we're reading four books concurrently: SOTW, which we love; Usborne's history encyclopedia; Gombrich, A Little History of the World; and The Kingfisher Atlas of World History. We also read a lot of other, shorter history books (during mealtime, mostly) and complementary literature selections. We've gone through ancient history in this fashion and started medieval history a couple months ago. We don't do any worksheets or history projects, which seem like a total waste of time to me (sorry! I gotta be me!), although we did go through the SOTW quizbook orally "for fun" during mealtimes. He has really liked history, although literally in just the last three days he's been suddenly cool on the before-bed history, so maybe we'll take a break. We do that a lot...take breaks when he's getting tired of something...but he always comes back with renewed motivation. Geography: see my post on this. Science: we used to do a lot more experiments, and I guess we still do at least a couple a month, on average--I believe we'll get more into that, soonish. We've read hundreds of science picture books and a few dozen longer ones. In the last year have gotten into some more advanced stuff, beyond the "Let's Read and Find Out" level (though we really loved those books). We read the Basher book about the Periodic Table, for example, and are now going through Physics--he likes these. I might do as much explanation of concepts as actual reading. We've also read a couple "100 Facts On" books, which is a nice series actually. Frankly I have no idea how much he's absorbing, and at this point, I don't really care if he can't articulate what's he's learning so much. I do sometimes ask him comprehension questions as we read, and I'm satisfied that he's absorbing a significant amount, enough to make it worth our while. Basically, I view the reading we're doing now as getting some basic and I hope reasonably interesting exposure to concepts, so that when he's older, he can really sink his teeth into more systematic, less childish introductions to the subjects. I'm comfortable with our exploring science topics more or less at random. Latin: we're going through Rosetta Stone Latin. He's halfway through Level 1. I could go on but this is already too long. I'd love input or suggestions on any of the above! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hi Larry, First, I have to tell you that my son adores Wikipedia! OK, now that I have that out of the way, I wanted to thank you for the video of your son on your blog. It was a short, nostalgic trip back to 2004 for me when my son was reading at a similar level. We too, due to his intense interest, taught him to read using some of the methods you'd outlined. At age 5 he was assessed at a high school reading level, a result I took with a pinch of salt because reading levels seem to me to be incredibly diluted these days. But he loves reading and will read anything now. Anyhow, we don't follow WTM 100% (although I am a wannabe, it doesn't seem to fit the way my son learns) so I am not able to comment much on your methods other than to say that if your son is happy and loving to learn, you must be doing something right. And it's great that you and your wife are able to spend so much time with him in this manner. For math, do visit the livingmath.net website if you have not already done so. It has many wonderful readers listed by concept. All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 quark, thanks for your kind words. Just make sure to keep your son away from all the porn on Wikipedia...unfortunately, I'm not kidding. It's always great to meet people who aren't freaked out by early reading. :-) Thanks for the tip re livingmath.net. Checking it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I doubt anyone on here would be freaked out by early reading. I'm teaching my 4 yro to read and she'd be considered an old lady by some of the people on this forum. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Just make sure to keep your son away from all the porn on Wikipedia...unfortunately, I'm not kidding. :iagree: My 4th grader is doing a unit on cell mitosis/meisosis and I literally had to move the computer away from her (which she thought was funny) while I searched for video showing cell division. We found video on Youtube and the suggested links in that right-hand column were so raunchy, we had to put something against that part of the computer to block everything. :eek: Edited November 25, 2011 by starrbuck12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 May I ask what you think of Rosetta Stone for Latin? Does it include mostly vocabulary, or is there grammar as well? I've heard complaints on the modern languages that it doesn't offer enough grammar, and Latin is a very grammar-heavy language. I have a children's Latin program along with my old Wheelock text when we start our Latin study in a few years. For now we are doing informal French with lots of books and music and occasional videos. I'm very curious to know what Latin looks like for the same approximate age. Are you planning on using it as a living language or transitioning to a grammar-translation focus at any particular point in time? I love seeing all the neat things that other families are doing! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I may sound like an old timer but especially at age five, I think the biggest part is if everyone his happy, growing and enjoying homeschooling. If you've got that, the rest tend to fall in place really easily. It can be very easy to overthink the subtle differences between curricula and probably a lot of these differences aren't as significant as we think especially for bright kids who learn easily. I encourage you to have the confidence to just pay attention to what's working and what's not and to make adjustments as you see fit. If he's reading well and you don't think you need to do grammar at this point, then don't. Also, if you have not already done so I would encourage you to get involved in your local homeschooling community and to build a network of support. If you are in it for the long haul it helps a lot. All that said, I'm not overall huge fan of the idea of Rosetta Stone for Latin. The immersion method approach to me makes more sense for languages that are primarily spoken languages and for me the purpose of studying Latin is more about reading and grammar. But, he's five and if you own it and he likes it, why not. Down the road if you want another curriculum there are many good options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I may sound like an old timer but especially at age five, I think the biggest part is if everyone his happy, growing and enjoying homeschooling. If you've got that, the rest tend to fall in place really easily. It can be very easy to overthink the subtle differences between curricula and probably a lot of these differences aren't as significant as we think especially for bright kids who learn easily. I encourage you to have the confidence to just pay attention to what's working and what's not and to make adjustments as you see fit. If he's reading well and you don't think you need to do grammar at this point, then don't. Also, if you have not already done so I would encourage you to get involved in your local homeschooling community and to build a network of support. If you are in it for the long haul it helps a lot. All that said, I'm not overall huge fan of the idea of Rosetta Stone for Latin. The immersion method approach to me makes more sense for languages that are primarily spoken languages and for me the purpose of studying Latin is more about reading and grammar. But, he's five and if you own it and he likes it, why not. Down the road if you want another curriculum there are many good options. :iagree: Except that I dislike Rosetta Stone for ANY language. The most important thing at five is that he has a loving, emotionally healthy atmosphere at home, and that you are flexible and adapting to him more than trying to box him into any particular method and approach; then as the child gets a bit older, you get a much more detailed picture of where you are, where you want to be, and what is the best structure to get you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 May I ask what you think of Rosetta Stone for Latin? Does it include mostly vocabulary, or is there grammar as well? I've heard complaints on the modern languages that it doesn't offer enough grammar, and Latin is a very grammar-heavy language. I have a children's Latin program along with my old Wheelock text when we start our Latin study in a few years. For now we are doing informal French with lots of books and music and occasional videos. I'm very curious to know what Latin looks like for the same approximate age. Are you planning on using it as a living language or transitioning to a grammar-translation focus at any particular point in time? I love seeing all the neat things that other families are doing! :D There's a thread going about this and here is my reply in it: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3353898&postcount=7 Basically, we love Rosetta Stone. I've studied five foreign languages and tried to learn in almost every way you can imagine (including total face-to-face immersion). I don't think RS will make you anything like fluent, and it won't teach you the mechanics of grammar, but it will give you an enjoyable introduction to the language. That's been my/our experience using both RS Russian and Latin. We plan to pick up a more traditional text after a year or two using RS. I expect my son will be more mature (he's only 5 now) and primed to understand and tolerate the other sort of approach then, and he'll benefit by already knowing a lot of the language. We're not speaking much Latin around the house, but we do a little. That's as much "living language" we're used to. We have enough of a second language in our bilingual household as it is--adding too much of a third would seem like overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 You might enjoy these books for grammar/writing: http://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/ The poetics and vocabulary books are great too. Your son sounds ready to start with the Island level. He's no doubt ready for some sort of grammar, but...why? Won't he learn more if he spends his "language arts" time writing and being corrected by me? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 I may sound like an old timer but especially at age five, I think the biggest part is if everyone his happy, growing and enjoying homeschooling. If you've got that, the rest tend to fall in place really easily. It can be very easy to overthink the subtle differences between curricula and probably a lot of these differences aren't as significant as we think especially for bright kids who learn easily. I encourage you to have the confidence to just pay attention to what's working and what's not and to make adjustments as you see fit. If he's reading well and you don't think you need to do grammar at this point, then don't. Also, if you have not already done so I would encourage you to get involved in your local homeschooling community and to build a network of support. If you are in it for the long haul it helps a lot. All that said, I'm not overall huge fan of the idea of Rosetta Stone for Latin. The immersion method approach to me makes more sense for languages that are primarily spoken languages and for me the purpose of studying Latin is more about reading and grammar. But, he's five and if you own it and he likes it, why not. Down the road if you want another curriculum there are many good options. Barbara, thanks for what sounds like good advice. I'm not really in the local homeschooling community yet...I haven't felt like I've had enough time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 :iagree: Except that I dislike Rosetta Stone for ANY language. The most important thing at five is that he has a loving, emotionally healthy atmosphere at home, and that you are flexible and adapting to him more than trying to box him into any particular method and approach; then as the child gets a bit older, you get a much more detailed picture of where you are, where you want to be, and what is the best structure to get you there. What's to dislike about Rosetta Stone? My son is learning more Latin than I would possibly expect him to learn in any other program...and he's having more fun and experiencing less resistance. For the record, I too completely agree about remaining flexible. I give him lots of choices and constantly monitor what we're doing so that he's as happy as possible. He resists some things, some days, but not too much. He's enjoying a one-week break this week and he told me before bed today that (more or less) he thinks he'll come back to studying on Monday with enthusiasm. As long as I don't push it...which I rarely do, I hope...he enjoys pretty much everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Barbara, thanks for what sounds like good advice. I'm not really in the local homeschooling community yet...I haven't felt like I've had enough time... It depends a lot on your child and if the local options you have available are a good fit with your family culture. But, if you have a social kid and they find friends they click with it can be a time and sanity saver to find people who can swap off for an afternoon play date. Also, there can be opportunities for field trips, concerts, etc. that are tough to arrange for just one family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 My take: I'd give your child more free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ester Maria Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 What's to dislike about Rosetta Stone? My son is learning more Latin than I would possibly expect him to learn in any other program...and he's having more fun and experiencing less resistance. With littles it does not really matter what you use - or whether you start Latin so early in the first place - as you are quite limited as to what you can teach them; however, I definitely do not recommend RS for the upper years. It is not that RS will "harm" you in any way, but it will not make you progress very much. RS is good for what I usually call "a tourist knowledge" of a language, however, if you aim at proficiency and literacy with your child, it is quite useless, except maybe as a fun supplement to other materials you use as primary ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiac Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Just wanted to say welcome, Larry! My only thought it is that he might like some fun sensory play experiences with different textures, weights, smells and such. There's no little kid that doesn't think that stuff is fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) I appreciate all the feedback--it's just what I hoped for. I'm privately reviewing all of our methods. Inspired by a remark by Wendy here and another similar remark on BrillKids.com (or was it my blog?), I've mapped out a writing program. Basically, it goes like this. We pick a writing "type." This is something more narrowly-defined than rhetorical modes, and might include, for example, narration, character description, place description, mental (emotional/cognitive) description, dialogue, phenomenal description (e.g., of the surface of the Moon or of how the Moon changes), scientific explanation, list, and argument. Today we picked "historical narration" (this is my name for what my son asked for). So the first step is to read several texts of that type; then copy several examples over as many days (preceding each day's copying session by more readings of the type). I found four different passages, 1-3 paragraphs long, from Gombrich's excellent A Little History of the World, and let him pick one to copy. While reading the passages, I did my best to give a meta-explanation of what the text was accomplishing, as accessible as possible to my son. (BTW, my son declares that he is the best writer in Ohio. After finishing his assignment he asked me for a blank "book," i.e., printer paper folded over and stapled along the fold like a book, and he proceeded to write "A History of the World." The grammar and spelling of this was quite good, but it didn't hang together at all. Also, it lacked detail. :-) But I kept most of my criticism to myself and heartily encouraged it and he was proud of himself.) Anyway, after a few days of what my fellow homeschoolers call "copywork," I'm going to ask him to reproduce a "historical narrative" that I read to him, probably repeatedly and with various interspersed remarks about it, by memory. I figure we'll do some of those for a couple days. Finally, I'll have him pick a particular historical story from a few that I know he's very familiar with, and have him retell it without a particular source. Then the idea is that we go through a bunch of different narrowly-construed "writing types" and eventually, after a lot of practice, put them together into longer stories, essays, reports, and whatnot. How's that sound for a plan? P.E. daily--check. We used to do physical/sports play more regularly. I think we'll get back into that, you're absolutely right that that's necessary. Give my child more free time? Well, believe it or not, he gets quite a bit of free time. An hour before breakfast (but 15 minutes of that should be Latin), a couple more in late morning, 3-4 hours in the afternoon, and an hour or two after dinner. Basically, study time = mealtimes plus an hour or a little more in the morning, plus a little over an hour after lunch, plus another hour or so before bed. I don't think it's too excessive. Edited November 30, 2011 by LarrySanger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 With littles it does not really matter what you use - or whether you start Latin so early in the first place - as you are quite limited as to what you can teach them; however, I definitely do not recommend RS for the upper years. It is not that RS will "harm" you in any way, but it will not make you progress very much. RS is good for what I usually call "a tourist knowledge" of a language, however, if you aim at proficiency and literacy with your child, it is quite useless, except maybe as a fun supplement to other materials you use as primary ones. I didn't expect that one could gain proficiency and literacy in a language with RS alone. It would surprise me if we could. But I don't think it follows that RS is "quite useless." It takes most people a long time to gain "proficiency and literacy" in a foreign language, and RS seems to be an unusually efficient and enjoyable way to get a solid basis of vocabulary and pronunciation, as well as some experience and feel for the grammar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 All--I have an update posted on my blog at: http://larrysanger.org/2012/01/update-about-the-boys-part-1-january-2012/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Beshears Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Just wanted to say thanks for making those phonics word cards! I used a couple sets of them as a transition b/w the Doman method (which I feared might not lead to phonetic understanding) and The Reading Lesson. With my second, we hardly used the Doman method at all, just focused on letters and sounds, using your flashcards again and maybe The Reading Lesson again if he will ever sit still for it! :) We may just use your flashcards all the way through because he really seems to like those. So again, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrySanger Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Just wanted to say thanks for making those phonics word cards! I used a couple sets of them as a transition b/w the Doman method (which I feared might not lead to phonetic understanding) and The Reading Lesson. With my second, we hardly used the Doman method at all, just focused on letters and sounds, using your flashcards again and maybe The Reading Lesson again if he will ever sit still for it! :) We may just use your flashcards all the way through because he really seems to like those. So again, thanks! You're welcome! My wife likes them more than ReadingBear.org itself, which is nice, but actually kind of disappointing since the website is taking me over a year to make. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I love MCT Island, but I wouldn't suggest starting it until a child is capable of writing multiple sentences independently without having to focus on penmanship.. MCT has been great at getting my DD to WANT to write, but honestly, I think a year ago she would have gotten extremely frustrated with having ideas sparked by the book that she was unable to get on paper and to save and share. It's written for Gifted 3rd graders, so it's not like it's late to do it at 6 or 7 vs 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Beshears Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Wow, I hadn't been to Reading Bear before! Very cool- we will try it and let you know how we like it. Thanks for doing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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