AimeeM Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Tried and failed to succeed with: Saxon (torture) Teaching Textbooks (she didn't do well with a comp based program) Aleks (same as TT) CLE (took placement test; and while she presumably placed into fifth grade, when we received the books, she could not understand or do the work) Considering: CLE (taken down a level to fourth grade) Math in Focus (Singapore) Singapore Standard The specifics: Autumn is 10. Severe short term memory problems (still doesn't know all of her multiplication tables); however, easily understand concepts, just lacks computation abilities. For example, she could look at a basic equation and tell me HOW to solve for "x", what steps to take, etc; but when asked to do so, frequently mixes up the number or simply cannot do the standard computation. We need something VERY incremental and VISUAL (Autumn is definitely NOT an auditory learner), and nothing that is too "busy" with the problems on the pages (like Math Mammoth). Suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Actually, what you just described is R&S. And let her use a multiplication table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 Rod and Staff is visual? I thought it was more "minimalistic" and rather dry (from other reviews). Lol - if I give her anything that resembles Saxon (in terms of dryness), she will likely have a complete meltdown. Actually, what you just described is R&S. And let her use a multiplication table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence1978 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Maybe something like Math-U-See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 No manipulatives. I know, I know. It's complicated. Autumn will be returning to private school next year. She needs to learn to do math without them and, to be honest, she hates manipulatives. She enjoys the simplistic, but not "dry" method of CLE, which is why I was considering just buying a level down from it... but, then again, she passed the pre-tests for CLE Math 5... but still can't seem to "grasp it". *I'm over it* *Had it up to my eyeballs with math* We are enrolling her in Kolbe for the rest of the year - but they use Saxon so we are not using their math. Blah. I do have a copy of Exploring Elementary Mathematics Book 4 (from 1970) that I ordered from Abe Books just for nostalgia and reference. Perhaps I should just have her review from that and see where it gets us... Maybe something like Math-U-See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence1978 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Oh, okay. Then I think I would lean toward going down a bit in CLE. It is nice and incremental and it should help with the computations. I don't know that you would need to go all the way back to the beginning of CLE 4 though. Maybe take a closer look at her placement test (if you still have it) to find the struggle points. You could also look into something like Xtramath.com (free) or Math Rider (not free) to help her out with getting her facts down better. My DD will never be good at math facts. She uses touch math (you can learn to use it without the full curriculum) for her computation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Sorry, I was just going based on your post and didn't check your prior posts. So she's dyslexic? And you have had her evaluated? I'm asking, not to be tacky, because there's a difference between the way you treat a gifted dyslexic (2E) and a struggler. They're totally different. If she's gifted, is passing placement tests, and the ONLY thing holding her back with CLE is the amount of work and the slow facts, then I would give her a multiplication table and put her into Lial's BCM or something similar. Ie. you move her up but give her the supports to do the work. Those facts can take a LONG TIME. She's 10? My dd certainly didn't have solid facts at age 10. 11 was a better year, and at 12 they seem to be gelling a bit more. So if that's all that's holding her back, I wouldn't sweat it. Sometimes they resist good manipulatives because they're weak at visualizing. Have you read "The Mislabeled Child" by the Eides? Have you tried googling the math topics for explanations or using the Khana videos? Mercifully, that hasn't been an issue for me, but it's certainly a way to get some help. I actually think getting a math tutor could be about the smartest thing you do. It's no crime to bring in some help on your weakest thing. It could change the dynamic and take the strain off. I know a couple people who did that with their dyslexics where the mom was having a hard time getting through, and it worked VERY well. Don't even be bashful about it. I farm out history, which most people think is easy and joyous to teach. It just doesn't happen to be easy and joyous *for me*. ;) PS. Have you looked at Hands-on Equations? Sometimes the answer is going forward, not back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 She is GREAT with concepts. The problem is that she mixes up the numbers... even when looking at something that she understands "conceptually". Left to right, right to left... if you know what I mean. I do give her a multiplication table with her work. I think the amount of time she has to dedicate because she doesn't have her tables memorized, frustrates her greatly. And you are absolutely right about outsourcing when necessary. Finding a math tutor in our area, who has experience with dyslexics who also happen to not be technically "behind" is a whole 'nother ballgame though. Yikes. The child reads above grade level, but writes/spells like a second grader; she does advanced science, but can only get "so far" because of her math "weaknesses". It's like this math problem is holding her back. I'm not sure if I would qualify her as gifted. I'm not sure what to qualify her as. She could read by 3 - but she has never been able to grasp phonics. She has simply taught herself to sight read *that well*. She resists learning phonics because in her head, why try when she can do it well "her way". She's a bit... willful. Lol. I will say this. We are entering her into Kolbe as a fourth grader who happens to be taking several advanced lessons. We have every intention of "holding her back" a grade level when she re-enters private school. The school she will be attending is advanced and rigorous. If she can't cut it, she's out. She only makes the cut off for fifth grade (this year) by a few days. So close, in fact, that her birthday puts her on a fourth grade soccer team. Her emotional level is much more that of a fourth grader because of what a young 10 she is. She prefers the company of 9/10 year olds vs the older 10's and 11's she meets who are also fifth graders. Right now we are very much in a "wait and see" mind set. Kolbe will allow us to start her in "fourth", speed through with tutor and educational support (including specialized), and then start in fifth when we are comfortable. Sorry, I was just going based on your post and didn't check your prior posts. So she's dyslexic? And you have had her evaluated? I'm asking, not to be tacky, because there's a difference between the way you treat a gifted dyslexic (2E) and a struggler. They're totally different. If she's gifted, is passing placement tests, and the ONLY thing holding her back with CLE is the amount of work and the slow facts, then I would give her a multiplication table and put her into Lial's BCM or something similar. Ie. you move her up but give her the supports to do the work. Those facts can take a LONG TIME. She's 10? My dd certainly didn't have solid facts at age 10. 11 was a better year, and at 12 they seem to be gelling a bit more. So if that's all that's holding her back, I wouldn't sweat it. Sometimes they resist good manipulatives because they're weak at visualizing. Have you read "The Mislabeled Child" by the Eides? Have you tried googling the math topics for explanations or using the Khana videos? Mercifully, that hasn't been an issue for me, but it's certainly a way to get some help. I actually think getting a math tutor could be about the smartest thing you do. It's no crime to bring in some help on your weakest thing. It could change the dynamic and take the strain off. I know a couple people who did that with their dyslexics where the mom was having a hard time getting through, and it worked VERY well. Don't even be bashful about it. I farm out history, which most people think is easy and joyous to teach. It just doesn't happen to be easy and joyous *for me*. ;) PS. Have you looked at Hands-on Equations? Sometimes the answer is going forward, not back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Have you gotten her eyes checked to determine if she actually has VISION problems on top of the dyslexia or if the reversals are only from the dyslexia? Dyslexics can have vision problems on top of everything else. http://www.covd.org You would get her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist, not a regular one. Then, when you eliminate vision problems as part of it, then you could try the claying and visualization of the Davis method. But I'd get her eyes checked first. My dd, very similar to yours in many ways, didn't have reversal issues, but I'm now realizing it may partly be because of all the sculpting she did from age 5 on. (She had a slight amount in K5 that disappeared, and I never really even pondered the connection between that and the visualization work of sculpting.) I think the Davis people are really onto something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 I have, yes. It was suggested by her eye doctor. Autumn has perfectly functioning eyes (although she needs a very low prescription for reading glasses). Autumn does actually have reversal (and transposing) issues. However, it doesn't seem to hinder her reading (oddly enough). It certainly does rear up in her writing and spelling though. Have you gotten her eyes checked to determine if she actually has VISION problems on top of the dyslexia or if the reversals are only from the dyslexia? Dyslexics can have vision problems on top of everything else. www.covd.org You would get her eyes checked by a developmental optometrist, not a regular one. Then, when you eliminate vision problems as part of it, then you could try the claying and visualization of the Davis method. But I'd get her eyes checked first. My dd, very similar to yours in many ways, didn't have reversal issues, but I'm now realizing it may partly be because of all the sculpting she did from age 5 on. (She had a slight amount in K5 that disappeared, and I never really even pondered the connection between that and the visualization work of sculpting.) I think the Davis people are really onto something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I really liked CLE math. Could you start her back and have her do a few problems of the new topic using the math chart and then just give her a calculator to do the rest of the problems. Really, as an adult, if she know WHAT to do with the numbers, a calculator will give her the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlcspcarcetc Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 We have the same problem with our 9 year old dd who has asperger's (and I suspect some form of dyslexia). She is a phenomenal reader, but can't sound out words. It's like she just memorizes the patterns to the letters and figures it out. There are many words she understands the concepts to, but has no idea how to pronounce them. She also struggles in math, but it's not the conceptual knowledge. It just the computation. It takes her a long time and she tends to get bogged down. She reverses things all the time. We just got past called 12, twenty one and so on. It still happens occasionally. We are just starting with CLE 2 (well, hopefully in the next week). I've seen a lot of good things about it here on WTM, so I'm really hoping it works for her. I hope you find the right program for your dd...it's so tough finding the right program. Everything else is fine, but math is killer here. She hates it because it's so tedious for her. It's like she has to think through each problem. I have no idea whether it's a dyslexia problem or just a processing issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Then definitely look up that Davis technique for dyslexia. It sounded like voodoo when I first read about it, but it makes a lot more sense to me now. It mirrors what Freed says in "Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World" about the way they can visualize spelling. There's enough info on those youtube videos that you could probably fiddle around with it and try it yourself. It would be interesting to see if it would work, just trying it informally like that. You could go through the alphabet and then do it on her spelling words, claying the words and the figures. (Yes, I'm a hack.) Maybe someone else who has done it could describe it better? It just fascinates me, the more I think about it. But when I did a little checking, it seemed quite pricey. For your situation though, where you only have reversals and no actual vision problem, it might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jayme Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 hey, looking for some ebooks for math problems. I am preparing for praxisii test. can you give me links for downloading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycc Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Check out her website about mastering multiplication facts and see if her method of math might work for your daughter. She has some math lesson plans on her website. I will take some of her techniques and apply it to my children with their regular math work such as using colors etc. What about some math games? There is a game called left right or something like that. It has helped my daughter with her left and right and reversals. What about the ABACUS since you said she is very visual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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