Motivating the unmotivated?

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

I am not talking about your minorly resistant kid, which happens to all of us now and then. I am talking about your kid who has zero motivation to complete anything other than stumbling around the internet looking at videos, even when given an assignment (or choosing an assignment) that they profess to like. The kid that is not interested in grades, doesn't care if s/he misses a lab or a field trip, isn't motivated by cash. The kid who would rather watch TV/play videogames for 8 hours and get yelled at (or lectured to) for not doing work than take the couple hours to complete his/her work. The kid who is proud of him/herself when s/he completes a tough assignment but cannot (or will not) transfer that persistence to the next piece of work.

 

What do you do? What has worked? What has failed miserably? A twist: simply eliminating TV, videogames and internet is not an option.

[Jane Elliot]

If you haven't read Boys Adrift, and if you're talking about a boy, that book might be a good place to start. For what you're describing, the author gives what he thinks are the five main causes and some helpful suggestions.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Luann in ID

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I am not talking about your minorly resistant kid, which happens to all of us now and then. I am talking about your kid who has zero motivation to complete anything other than stumbling around the internet looking at videos, even when given an assignment (or choosing an assignment) that they profess to like. The kid that is not interested in grades, doesn't care if s/he misses a lab or a field trip, isn't motivated by cash. The kid who would rather watch TV/play videogames for 8 hours and get yelled at (or lectured to) for not doing work than take the couple hours to complete his/her work. The kid who is proud of him/herself when s/he completes a tough assignment but cannot (or will not) transfer that persistence to the next piece of work.

 

What do you do? What has worked? What has failed miserably? A twist: simply eliminating TV, videogames and internet is not an option.

 

Why not? He's totally addicted. His current life is being derailed and his future is being sabotaged. Why would you not pull the plug? He should have never had the opportunity to find out what it is like to play video games for 8 hours in one day.

 

I'm a firm believer in doing anything to save a boy.

 

I'd take a sledgehammer to the A/V equipment and take him on fishing weekend, for starters. Then set up camp in the backyard. He lives there, he works there, he studies there, he socializes there. Chop wood. Haul water. Go fishing again. Hike for several miles every single day, in all kinds of weather. Cook over an open fire. Be cold, hot, wet, dry, comfortable, and uncomfortable. Hard work, independence, and close personal association with the elements of wind, water, fire, and weather can change a boy's life.

 

If you don't like the camp idea, find another physical outlet that will wear his body out. He needs to feel physically alive, and the ability to study will follow.

[Rhonda in TX]

You have to make the consequences worse than the work. I've been going round with DS this year about the quality of his work. DH and I agreed that if he has a failing grade in a class at the end of the week (each week starts new), then he loses all screen time for the weekend. I wanted to make it for the week, but DH thinks he might get too fatalistic over losing a week's worth, so we're starting with that. If this doesn't work, we will continue until we find something that does. Until he finds self-motivation, I will provide the motivation he needs.

[regentrude]

I am not talking about your minorly resistant kid, which happens to all of us now and then. I am talking about your kid who has zero motivation to complete anything other than stumbling around the internet looking at videos, even when given an assignment (or choosing an assignment) that they profess to like. The kid that is not interested in grades, doesn't care if s/he misses a lab or a field trip, isn't motivated by cash. The kid who would rather watch TV/play videogames for 8 hours and get yelled at (or lectured to) for not doing work than take the couple hours to complete his/her work. The kid who is proud of him/herself when s/he completes a tough assignment but cannot (or will not) transfer that persistence to the next piece of work.

 

What do you do? What has worked? What has failed miserably? A twist: simply eliminating TV, videogames and internet is not an option.

 

Why ever not?

In a situation like this, electronic media would be the first thing to go. Completely. If it interferes this much with his education, I would remove TV, cancel internet and have him use a computer under supervision for schoolwork only.

I would be seriously concerned that you are dealing with a full-blow addiction that goes beyond the normal teen boy fascination with video games and would seek counseling for this.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Why not? He's totally addicted. His current life is being derailed and his future is being sabotaged. Why would you not pull the plug? He should have never had the opportunity to find out what it is like to play video games for 8 hours in one day.

 

I'm a firm believer in doing anything to save a boy.

 

I'd take a sledgehammer to the A/V equipment and take him on fishing weekend, for starters. Then set up camp in the backyard. He lives there, he works there, he studies there, he socializes there. Chop wood. Haul water. Go fishing again. Hike for several miles every single day, in all kinds of weather. Cook over an open fire. Be cold, hot, wet, dry, comfortable, and uncomfortable. Hard work, independence, and close personal association with the elements of wind, water, fire, and weather can change a boy's life.

 

If you don't like the camp idea, find another physical outlet that will wear his body out. He needs to feel physically alive, and the ability to study will follow.

 

Not my kid. Not a consequence I can reinforce.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

To be clear, I am asking what you have done with your own kids, boys or girls.

 

I cannot influence or enforce anything once the student leaves my school, so anything that is beyond my control during the week is not helpful to me (although I started this as a "motivating the unmotivated" thread, so posting anything that will help others is a good thing, too!!) . I agree with the "no screen time" instructions and have that in place for my own child, but it is not possible for this student.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Oh. I didn't realize you were a schoolteacher seeking advice on how to motivate a student in your school. I'm afraid I don't have any experience with that.

[wapiti]

To be clear, I am asking what you have done with your own kids, boys or girls.

 

I cannot influence or enforce anything once the student leaves my school, so anything that is beyond my control during the week is not helpful to me (although I started this as a "motivating the unmotivated" thread, so posting anything that will help others is a good thing, too!!) . I agree with the "no screen time" instructions and have that in place for my own child, but it is not possible for this student.

 

Does the particular student have the potential to be college-bound?

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Oh. I didn't realize you were a schoolteacher seeking advice on how to motivate a student in your school. I'm afraid I don't have any experience with that.

 

If you have a student at home you have experience with that, and my school is four students, one of whom is my child, so it is more like a homeschool environment than not. Each kid has their own curriculum, and I have four separate grades.

 

That's why I asked. :)

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Does the particular student have the potential to be college-bound?

 

The student is identified as gifted but has no desire whatsoever to do anything hard; college is expected, but at this point totally unnattainable and ridiculous to think about witht he current work ethic. This student told me flat out that the best case scenario would be to go back to high school and do worksheets because they were easy. The work he is doing is not above his capabilities at all, but it does require thought and effort. Smart kid, though.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If you have a student at home you have experience with that, and my school is four students, one of whom is my child, so it is more like a homeschool environment than not. Each kid has their own curriculum, and I have four separate grades.

 

That's why I asked. :)

 

Well, I have four students (all my children), but I'm in charge of their after-school hours activities and their character development as well as their academic life.

 

That's the big difference between homeschooling and other settings.

 

We do have teachers and tutors here, and I hope one of them will see your question and offer some good advice.

 

:)

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Well, I have four students (all my children), but I'm in charge of their after-school hours activities and their character development as well as their academic life.

 

That's the big difference between homeschooling and other settings.

 

:)

 

While ultimately I am not the one who has responsibility for the other parts of their life, I am way more involved than a regular classroom teacher, and I am certain that homeschooling parents have suggestions that can be used in other settings. They are not just test grades and warm bodies to me; they come into my home every day, and I also have a part in their after-school activities and character development, sometimes in lieu of their parents.

 

I am trying very hard not to get bristly, but I feel like you were dismissive. Perhaps it's because I didn't give much information, or maybe it's because you don't know me (as much as that is possible online). Thank you for your input, though.

[Dana]

While ultimately I am not the one who has responsibility for the other parts of their life, I am way more involved than a regular classroom teacher, and I am certain that homeschooling parents have suggestions that can be used in other settings. They are not just test grades and warm bodies to me; they come into my home every day, and I also have a part in their after-school activities and character development, sometimes in lieu of their parents.

 

I am trying very hard not to get bristly, but I feel like you were dismissive. Perhaps it's because I didn't give much information, or maybe it's because you don't know me (as much as that is possible online). Thank you for your input, though.

 

It's also that if the parents don't enforce consequences for not doing work, there really isn't much you can do. I teach at the cc and I'm very frustrated with students who ae choosing to fail. I've done what I can, but many of them are choosing not to do the work and thus to fail.

[regentrude]

While ultimately I am not the one who has responsibility for the other parts of their life, I am way more involved than a regular classroom teacher, and I am certain that homeschooling parents have suggestions that can be used in other settings. They are not just test grades and warm bodies to me; they come into my home every day, and I also have a part in their after-school activities and character development, sometimes in lieu of their parents.

 

I am trying very hard not to get bristly, but I feel like you were dismissive. Perhaps it's because I didn't give much information, or maybe it's because you don't know me (as much as that is possible online). Thank you for your input, though.

 

Sorry, I also did not get it from your first post that you are not the parent.

IMO it is impossible for you to do anything about his motivation unless you can cooperate with the parents. I think you and the parents need to sit together and discuss his situation. I am afraid that, unless his home situation improves and his parents impose consequences for his behavior, there is nothing you can do. I would definitely mention a concern about internet/gaming addiction - this is real, and might have to be addressed by a professional.

If, however, the parents are not willing to do anything, I am afraid that your efforts are going to remain fruitless. In that light, the previous poster's remark is definitely pertinent: homeschooling one's own children where we have control over their after school life is fundamentally different form a school situation such as yours.

 

I do teach students other than my own children in my job as a college instructor. Occasionally there are students who are not motivated and not doing the work. I have, in ten years of teaching, not found a solution to instill work ethic and motivation because this is something that should have happened to the children when they were still young. I can only be strict and fair and let them fail, so that they learn the hard way. Some learn their lessons and succeed the second time around. Some take the same class three or four times, and fail time and time again because they don't get their act together.

Edited September 26, 2011 by regentrude

[Teachin'Mine]

If the parents are paying you to educate their child, then they need to be involved in his education. I would set up a contract clearly stating what must be done and what the consequences are if it's not done and then having it signed by the student and parents. It would not be negotiable. The parents have to be willing to do their part by restricting, or better yet eliminating, screen time at home. I wouldn't want the responsibility of being in the position of teaching an unwilling student, especially one not supported by the parents. If the parents are not willing to help, I would suggest they make other arrangements for his education. Maybe they are uninformed about what they should be doing as parents and need some guidance. If they care about their son, they should be willing to do whatever it takes to bring him back to life.

[wapiti]

The student is identified as gifted but has no desire whatsoever to do anything hard; college is expected, but at this point totally unnattainable and ridiculous to think about witht he current work ethic. This student told me flat out that the best case scenario would be to go back to high school and do worksheets because they were easy. The work he is doing is not above his capabilities at all, but it does require thought and effort. Smart kid, though.

 

Sounds like a classic underachiever failed by all his earlier years of education, a poster child for real gifted elementary ed that goes far beyond lip service.

 

What to do with him now? It depends on the exact age, etc., but I'd think that, at a minimum, a lot of talking about the future should be on the table. Practical things like careers and what they pay (and what the corresponding standard of living is like), whether grad school is part of the equation, what it takes to get into various types of colleges, including but not limited to a frank discussion about this student's apparent but unrealized intellectual potential and what he would have to do for admission to a selective school or whatever the path might be to a career he may be even vaguely interested in. I'd also talk about decisions, and how choices affect lives, e.g., with the type of potential this student may have, he can choose to work hard and go into an intellecually rewarding career that may also happen to pay well, or he can choose not to do the work and have only himself to blame when he ends up in what may feel like a lame career situation in five or ten years. I'm talking about the "facts of life" for a student with significant intellectual potential.

 

I'm sure more seasonsed parents will have more advice. Underachievement is one of the major reasons I go well out of my way to see that my kids are challenged in one or more areas, to prevent that "brain-rot", for lack of a better term, even though sometimes it feels like I'm pushing them.

 

You have a real chance to turn this student's situation around. I'd think a talk with parents would be in order as well.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

IMO it is impossible for you to do anything about his motivation unless you can cooperate with the parents. I think you and the parents need to sit together and discuss his situation. I am afraid that, unless his home situation improves and his parents impose consequences for his behavior, there is nothing you can do. I would definitely mention a concern about internet/gaming addiction - this is real, and might have to be addressed by a professional.

 

I have, in ten years of teaching, not found a solution to instill work ethic and motivation because this is something that should have happened to the children when they were still young. I can only be strict and fair and let them fail, so that they learn the hard way. Some learn their lessons and succeed the second time around. Some take the same class three or four times.

 

The parent's mind is willing, but the flesh is weak. There is not much follow-through for various reasons, one of which is that there is only one parent, and every single parent will understand this as a major challenge to consistency. There are a few other factors as well; not making excuses, but it makes the situation a little more complicated.

 

Ultimately? I am going to be the one delivering the consequences. Mom tends to cave. I just need the student to understand that it is both deeply personal (a desire to help him be as successful as I know he can be) and not personal at all (they are the same consequences that any student would have, and it isn't because I am against him or not wanting him to succeed). Just thought I'd check in and see if anyone had any suggestions.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Sounds like a classic underachiever failed by all his earlier years of education, a poster child for real gifted elementary ed that goes far beyond lip service.

 

The child was totally and utterly failed by gifted ed system in PS; he is a twice-exceptional (ADHD, pretty profound) and he got worksheets in PS.

 

We have been talking about the college he wants to go to, and I am trying to provide him with lots of hands-on things, but he has refused to do even things he likes. We do talk frequently about the future; I do with all of the students, and I always teach up (they are all diagnosed as "gifted," with varying degrees of laziness and commitment. I can tell how long a student has been in public school by how little they are willing to do).

[wapiti]

The child was totally and utterly failed by gifted ed system in PS; he is a twice-exceptional (ADHD, pretty profound) and he got worksheets in PS.

 

We have been talking about the college he wants to go to, and I am trying to provide him with lots of hands-on things, but he has refused to do even things he likes. We do talk frequently about the future; I do with all of the students, and I always teach up (they are all diagnosed as "gifted," with varying degrees of laziness and commitment. I can tell how long a student has been in public school by how little they are willing to do).

 

Interesting. Is he aware of the admissions requirements at the college? Is he interested in any particular field of study? I honestly don't know how to turn the brain on at that age. If he learns how to study and work, are there AP courses on the horizon? Does he need explicit instruction in how to work/study? Just thinking out loud. Many kids who have never had to work hard for school simply don't know how to do it when they're finally faced with anything remotely challenging.

[Jodi-FL]

but for my own 17yo son who is a senior. only his lack of motivation is new in the past few weeks, and i have trouble keeping track/being consistent (i'm consistent in what is expected and the consequences, but i am not able to be consistently around right now, which i don't think i should have to be. his 15yo sister is keeping up with the work just fine without me constantly around) because of several things (i am the main caretaker for my 86 & 88 yo in-laws, lots of appointments/helping them, and am in p.t. 2x/week for myself after surgery).

 

i am currently reading the boys adrift book luann mentioned and it's good, but so far no sure-fire solution to my boy's problem. he sold his xbox 360 last year when he saw how obsessed his friends were and he didn't want that to happen to him. he gets distracted by helping with his little brothers or mowing for us and in-laws, so it's not even negative lack of motivation. it's just that if i'm gone all morning (like today) he hasn't done what's on his list until i get home.

 

as for education someone not related to you, i have a good friend who is in the same situation as you (almost exact. like, i had to look at where you're from to make sure it's not her!) and she did the contract thing with the parent which has *somewhat* helped, but the parent just isn't able to help much because of her relationship. he is in junior high, but we have talked that if he were in high school, we would try to get him under the wing of an admissions counselor at the college of his choice, or even one at the public school (ask around, i know of a high school guidance counselor who got her master's from my alma mater who has been very helpful to us, and she even calls me when parents pull their kids out to homeschool so i can help them).

 

i feel for you. you are in a tough predicament, but there's only so much you can do. he has to own his acheivements/education. for my own son, i think his main lack of motivation is fear (which is totally foreign to me, but dh relates somewhat). fear of the future, fear of choosing wrong, fear of failure, etc.

 

i'll take any advice anyone wants to add-

jodi

Edited September 26, 2011 by Jodi-FL

[Jane Elliot]

The child was totally and utterly failed by gifted ed system in PS; he is a twice-exceptional (ADHD, pretty profound) and he got worksheets in PS.

 

We have been talking about the college he wants to go to, and I am trying to provide him with lots of hands-on things, but he has refused to do even things he likes. We do talk frequently about the future; I do with all of the students, and I always teach up (they are all diagnosed as "gifted," with varying degrees of laziness and commitment. I can tell how long a student has been in public school by how little they are willing to do).

 

I do think you'd find the book (Boys Adrift) enlightening and helpful. If you could get the mom to read it, even better.

[April in CA]

The child was totally and utterly failed by gifted ed system in PS; he is a twice-exceptional (ADHD, pretty profound) and he got worksheets in PS.

 

We have been talking about the college he wants to go to, and I am trying to provide him with lots of hands-on things, but he has refused to do even things he likes. We do talk frequently about the future; I do with all of the students, and I always teach up (they are all diagnosed as "gifted," with varying degrees of laziness and commitment. I can tell how long a student has been in public school by how little they are willing to do).

 

Hi! This sounds like some pretty serious issues! is his ADHD under control? I think I would make sure that he is evaluated by a professional to control the ADHD and discuss depression/addiction issues. If he is medicated for the ADHD, does his medication need to be changed? I have no experience with this diagnosis, but my understanding is that over-medication can lead to undesirable consequences.

 

Blessings to you as you try to help this young man!

April

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Interesting. Is he aware of the admissions requirements at the college? Is he interested in any particular field of study? I honestly don't know how to turn the brain on at that age. If he learns how to study and work, are there AP courses on the horizon? Does he need explicit instruction in how to work/study? Just thinking out loud. Many kids who have never had to work hard for school simply don't know how to do it when they're finally faced with anything remotely challenging.

 

I am not sure if he is aware exactly how challenging his college of choice is, but it is very difficult to get into, as is his career choice, which requires many years of college, internships and residencies (he wants to be a vet). We are working on study strategies (we did this last year also, but it only works if you implement the strategies!!), and I do offer six AP classes. He has the tools, but I think we will review them again.

 

but for my own 17yo son who is a senior. only his lack of motivation is new in the past few weeks, and i have trouble keeping track/being consistent (i'm consistent in what is expected and the consequences, but i am not able to be consistently around right now, which i don't think i should have to be. his 15yo sister is keeping up with the work just fine without me constantly around) because of several things (i am the main caretaker for my 86 & 88 yo in-laws, lots of appointments/helping them, and am in p.t. 2x/week for myself after surgery).

 

it's just that if i'm gone all morning (like today) he hasn't done what's on his list until i get home.

 

he is in junior high, but we have talked that if he were in high school, we would try to get him under the wing of an admissions counselor at the college of his choice, or even one at the public school.

 

i feel for you. you are in a tough predicament, but there's only so much you can do. he has to own his acheivements/education. for my own son, i think his main lack of motivation is fear (which is totally foreign to me, but dh relates somewhat). fear of the future, fear of choosing wrong, fear of failure, etc.

 

If you never try, then you can never fail, right? The kids are with me four days a week, and he does not do anything on the days he is not with me (or in the evening if we need to finish something from the day, like a lab write up). He is going to miss a lab tomorrow because he is unprepared, and a play the next day for the same reason. I don't think I should have to be all over him, but at this point he needs major supervision, so that's what is happening right now.

 

At this point, I have considered trying to get him into an internship or volunteer situation, but transportation is difficult for his mom. I like the idea of a mentor.

 

I do think you'd find the book (Boys Adrift) enlightening and helpful. If you could get the mom to read it, even better.

 

If I tell her to read it she will, but I don't see anything new in there. I will check it out.

 

Hi! This sounds like some pretty serious issues! is his ADHD under control? I think I would make sure that he is evaluated by a professional to control the ADHD and discuss depression/addiction issues. If he is medicated for the ADHD, does his medication need to be changed? I have no experience with this diagnosis, but my understanding is that over-medication can lead to undesirable consequences.

 

He is medicated, and when he is not, as long as I know, we can work around it (for a period of time, but not indefinitely), but there are other issues (too much sugar, bad diet, etc). I am working on writing up a list of strategies that he can use to stay focused, but there is not much out there. He is seriously impacted by this issue. His mom is inconsistent with that as well.

 

I know I am being paid to teach him, and I am perfectly within my rights to say I can't work with him, but I don't want to. He would be bullied and swallowed up in public high school, and he would be getting the same grades but learning nothing. At least here he gets to have some success (he's our Stock Market Game leader and resident fixit-man. He's pretty brilliant with that. Made a Lego 35 mm camera last year just looking at the picture) and we are more personal and hands-on than anywhere else (including other private schools with 20 kids per class). I want to work with him, and I hope we can figure something out.

 

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I appreciate the insights and experiences you are sharing!!

[Julie in MN]

Regarding the posts that put it in the parents' court, like these:

 

It's also that if the parents don't enforce consequences for not doing work, there really isn't much you can do. I teach at the cc and I'm very frustrated with students who ae choosing to fail. I've done what I can, but many of them are choosing not to do the work and thus to fail.

 

I have, in ten years of teaching, not found a solution to instill work ethic and motivation because this is something that should have happened to the children when they were still young.

 

I just think there are kids who are not going to be easy. I wouldn't jump to blaming the parents. I have been a very involved parent, and I had one child who just wouldn't.do.anything. The public school counselor said she'd only had 2 students in 30 years who were that passive, and there is just no way to control a passive person. It might help to let go of the idea that you can control every child, or that the child's parents can.

 

for my own son, i think his main lack of motivation is fear (which is totally foreign to me, but dh relates somewhat). fear of the future, fear of choosing wrong, fear of failure, etc.

 

i'll take any advice anyone wants to add-

jodi

 

For my own child who wouldn't do her work, fear could have been part of it, too. She probably had fear of imperfection because she cannot tolerate imperfection in herself. I know, it's a very basic Christian tenet and a huge deal, but there it is. After talking a lot with Karen from these boards, I do think my dd could have Aspberger's, but even if she doesn't, looking at her that way has helped me relate to her when she is difficult.

 

Like the OP, my dd is very smart, but will only do what she wants to do, when she wants to do it. I'll just say that I did my best with her, and I'm glad I did. Now she's 24, does not have a high school diploma or any further education, but she's a good mom and a hard worker. So I have to accept that my best was good enough for her.

 

Any more "punishment" with a child like her -- taking things away, restricting, etc. -- would have been tolerated like all the rest, resented but endured stoically. I really don't look back and wish I'd punished her more.

 

Julie

[Susie-Knits]

I think the ADD/ADHD information helps explain this situation much more. Meds just don't fix all the problems though they can be a big help with the focus.

 

Sounds like he has some bad "coping" mechanisms that he is using - probably left over from "school" days. In the end, those bad methods are not really helping him now and he needs new methods. But he probably doesn't know how to change his thinking. If you couldn't see past the next 3 seconds in your life ... you might be "stuck" too. ADDers live in the now. Seems to me that is where he is - pleasure/now over work/future.

 

So hearing someone "talk" about his future when he doesn't see a future is not motivating. Think he needs to catch the fire by seeing, tasting, feeling, and doing as much as possible. Also it should be noted that ADDers are less mature in comparison to their peers.

 

Learning more about ADHD may be a good key to unlocking this guy.

Just my opinion -

Susie

[Nan in Mass]

I know nothing about ADHD so these suggestions may be way off. If so, ignore them, ok?

 

Have you tried breaking the assignments into tiny step-by-step directions? When my children balk at doing something, it is sometimes because they feel overwhelmed by the seeming largeness of it and I can help them by making them a checklist breaking the task down into little, doable sections.

 

Is he having trouble writing? That made ordinary tasks seem undoable sometimes for mine. If so, then can you teach him a formula for writing? Something like the 5-paragraph formula, the really specific one that says one sentence should say this, the next this, the next this? You could try the Schaffer formula, too. (You can google for a description.)

 

I think I'd be inclined to try to find some very easy academic things for him to do while I worked on trying to get him to wake up and be more alive, step-by-step things that would still accomplish something, like vocabulary excersizes and math. If it is very easy and short will he tackle it?

 

Have you read The Myth of Laziness? I'm not sure how helpful it would be, but it might give you some idea of what his limitations are so you can guide him realistically as far a future career goes.

 

If I had one who would not do any schoolwork and I was at my wits end, I think I would cut the schoolwork to a minimum and look at apprenticeships in the trades and hope he would grow up later.

 

Would he be interested in a computer math curriculum? Computers respond constantly to you. I think that is why programmers can work so intensively for so long. There are several out there.

 

As I said, I know nothing about ADHD, but I would wonder if he was running away from something. He sounds like I was when I was depressed. It was incredibly difficult to do anything at all. If that is the case, it is possible that nothing you can do is really going to work until the depression is dealt with. The more I think about it, the more your description sounds like the way I felt. I healed up after a few years and went back to having enough energy to tackle things I wanted to do, but in the meantime it was truly miserable.

 

This is a mishmash and probably not very helpful. Sorry.

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

The other thing I might try is to find a situation where he is working with animals right now, like volunteering at a shelter or barn or something. That won't help, though, if he is depressed. He just won't have the energy and it will make him feel worse and wonder even more what is wrong with himself.

Nan

[Dana]

I just think there are kids who are not going to be easy. I wouldn't jump to blaming the parents. I have been a very involved parent, and I had one child who just wouldn't.do.anything. The public school counselor said she'd only had 2 students in 30 years who were that passive, and there is just no way to control a passive person. It might help to let go of the idea that you can control every child, or that the child's parents can.

 

I agree with this - and I'm not blaming parents.

But... if the parents aren't able to motivate the student when they have the ability to provide consequences, it's also unlikely that the teacher will be able to change the child's behavior.

 

Regentrude and I are both dealing with students who are adults - we don't deal with parents. I have students who pay for a course and then don't do the work for the course - and then fail the course. I try to help them and to motivate them - but when they continue to choose not to do the work - there's nothing I can do with them.

 

That's where I'm coming from.

Right now at least 1/3 of my class is failing. They could be doing the homework (done online) and get 100% on the homework (you can rework problems up to the deadline). I have a lot who haven't done any homework. Nothing I can do about their choices. (Drives me batty though - why pay, put in the class time, and then chose not to do the work that would let you pass.)

 

I can't make them do the work.

But I also won't pass them (and that's where the public schools are failing & the parents who demand passing grades or make ups for their darling snowflake are responsible).

[Julie in MN]

But I also won't pass them (and that's where the public schools are failing & the parents who demand passing grades or make ups for their darling snowflake are responsible).

 

Oh, yes, I agree with this. I think I mentioned I did not graduate my dd from our homeschool, nor did I provide her a lot of perks during those years. I'm honest with my kids about my not being inclined to be untruthful about naming credits or awarding a diploma.

 

I'm just saying that for some kids, the school years may be better spent developing character, relationships with adults, talking, working on schoolwork at a nontraditional pace or with a nontraditional agenda, or other things besides taking everything away from them for not doing schoolwork. Not graduating is very sad, but it doesn't mean the years were wasted or that there was no education going on.

 

Julie

[Trilliums]

 

What do you do? What has worked? What has failed miserably?

 

I'd consider a *free school* environment adding in no computer/video time at least while he is in your school. Paradoxically, demanding less from my son helped him process through and move beyond a lack of motivation.

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Phew. Lots of stuff to reply to! :)

 

Have you tried breaking the assignments into tiny step-by-step directions? Yes, but I am going to do it even smaller, starting this week.

 

Is he having trouble writing? No difficulty writing; he is very capable, just doesn't want to.

 

If it is very easy and short will he tackle it? Nope. Not necessarily. I also don't want to expect less than he is capable. That is kind of how he got here.

 

Have you read The Myth of Laziness? I'm not sure how helpful it would be, but it might give you some idea of what his limitations are so you can guide him realistically as far a future career goes. I will look at that also!

 

If I had one who would not do any schoolwork and I was at my wits end, I think I would cut the schoolwork to a minimum and look at apprenticeships in the trades and hope he would grow up later. He is too young at this point; in high school, but too young. Most places here won't let you volunteer until 18.

 

Would he be interested in a computer math curriculum? He does ALEKS, enjoys it, but then stops and will do nothing.

 

As I said, I know nothing about ADHD, but I would wonder if he was running away from something. He sounds like I was when I was depressed. I believe he is depressed, for various reasosn I can't share (confidentiality).

 

This is a mishmash and probably not very helpful. Yes, it was! Thank you!

 

But I also won't pass them (and that's where the public schools are failing & the parents who demand passing grades or make ups for their darling snowflake are responsible).

 

This. I am not blaming the parent (singular). Could she be doing more, and would it make a big diffference? Probably. But my main issue is changing what I can change while he is with me. And yes, he has been coddled and passed along in PS, which is why he wants to go back and do what is easy.

 

I'd consider a *free school* environment adding in no computer/video time at least while he is in your school. Paradoxically, demanding less from my son helped him process through and move beyond a lack of motivation.

 

I am not sure this is feasible. This is the other limitation of my school. I am actually a school, accredited, and I am not interested in simply passing him through. Not that you are suggesting this, but I don't know how I could make this work. A puzzler. I will think about it, though. I am sort of doing this with my child (grades for her don't "count" yet, though. She is only in middle school).

 

I would try to find something real which catches his interest.

 

I really like what John Taylor Gatto has to say about motivation and kids this age. That they should learn in context of real life!

 

That is the thing - even the things he is interested in he will not follow through on (unless it is airsoft guns or StumbleUpon, which he is on for hours. Trying to capitalize on that somehow).

 

That is really one of the premises of my school - that school reflects real life. I try to connect everything we do to the world. Sometimes it isn't possible, but we try.

[Nan in Mass]

calandalsmom - I know see what you mean about no motivating suggestions. I noticed that, too. I think, though, that if he is low on energy or depressed, motivation is not really going to work. And it sounds like she has already tried some of the normal things we try to do to motivate ours. Maybe I am wrong, though. It is hard, over the internet.

Things mine have found motivating:

Doing scarily grown up things alone

Inventing/designing/making things, especially projectiles or explosions (boys - ug)

Being shown how to do a proper experiment and then designing their own

Picking the adventure story type of works from the great books list and doing scifi instead of moderns

Being challenged to explain something to a totally ignorant someone else

Community college classes (they will work for someone else where they won't for me)

Travel

Learning to use tools and equipment like the compressor

Learning how to do something cool (usually a physical thing that has nothing to do with academics except the research required to figure out how to do it)

 

With many of those things, I try not to get involved except to say yes, you can do it, and sometimes to lay down what I require for the academic piece, to turn it into an independent project, like write a paper. My son has a bunch of independent projects on his transcript.

 

Nan

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

calandalsmom - I know see what you mean about no motivating suggestions. I noticed that, too. I think, though, that if he is low on energy or depressed, motivation is not really going to work. And it sounds like she has already tried some of the normal things we try to do to motivate ours. Maybe I am wrong, though. It is hard, over the internet.

Things mine have found motivating:

Doing scarily grown up things alone

Inventing/designing/making things, especially projectiles or explosions (boys - ug)

Being shown how to do a proper experiment and then designing their own

Picking the adventure story type of works from the great books list and doing scifi instead of moderns

Being challenged to explain something to a totally ignorant someone else

Community college classes (they will work for someone else where they won't for me)

Travel

Learning to use tools and equipment like the compressor

Learning how to do something cool (usually a physical thing that has nothing to do with academics except the research required to figure out how to do it)

 

With many of those things, I try not to get involved except to say yes, you can do it, and sometimes to lay down what I require for the academic piece, to turn it into an independent project, like write a paper. My son has a bunch of independent projects on his transcript.

 

I do think this may be the direction we are headed in, except I am not sure he is motivated enough to complete things like these (some of which we have already done, with much enthusiasm but mixed results). Even the Lego camera (a real, working, camera with 35 mm film!!) was like pulling teeth, and he LOVED it. He still has a final set of pictures that he has not developed because it requires him to follow through and finish, and this is from last May.

 

I know it is time for something different, though. We went through this all last year until the very end, when a switch flipped and he got super motivated to do things. The work didn't change, his life didn't change, nothing changed - he just decided to do the work. I have already told him that we are not spending another year doing nothing, so we need to figure this out. I am down with switching what he is doing, but he needs to finish these few assignments before I let him off the hook to design new things. He has never had an adult follow through, and I am going to be that adult (yay, me. :glare: I guess that's what I get paid for though, right?)

 

I do really like this kid, though. He is very, very good people, a big brother to my only child, and an all around nice guy. He has a great sense of humor, is great with figuring things out, and I think he will pull through this. Just trying to figure out the best way for him so he can have success and feel good about himself.

[bzymom]

If he is that focused on video interaction, you might consider giving him some computer programming work. If you can hook him, it might be the carrot to move him along in other areas.

 

TeenCoder is a very basic course, teaching programming at first and then gaming design if so desired.

 

It sounds as though he has given up on himself, or simply does not have the maturity to see around corners and realize how he is limiting his life.

[Nan in Mass]

Well, success breeds success. It seems like the best you can do is remind/nag/babysit him into finishing things and hope that as he gains experience with that, he will develop a more realistic idea of what is involved with finishing something. It isn't a huge impossible task that is going to take a ton of energy. It isn't just dreaming about the thing. It is something in between. He sounds like a classic dreamer type. I know one. Sweet, sweet, full of great ideas, but incapable of actually finishing anything. I adore him. As he gets older, though, his self-esteem is being effected by not being able to get any of his dreams going and he is in danger of being lost. If I had to teach him, I would pick really nice tasks (like that camera) and then show him "how to eat an elephant" - break down the project into steps and then break the steps into smaller steps and then put blinders on and JUST DO THE NEXT STEP rather than thinking about the whole thing at once or pleasantly dreaming about the end result. You know what helped me see how to do this? A book called The Artist's Way. It is about how to switch from dreaming about being an artist to actually being an artist and since artists tend to work for themselves, it says over and over again, "Just do the work. Sit down and do the work. Sit down and do the next thing. Just do the work. No don't go get a cup of coffee or read your email now. Do the next thing on your list. Keep going......." Your boy may have so much else going on that he can't manage that, but I think I would try really hard to break things down into little steps and then focus him on the steps. That sounds rather like how people get through trauma, now that I think of it - they keep breathing and keep moving.

Nan

[HoneyFernDotOrg]

Well, success breeds success. It seems like the best you can do is remind/nag/babysit him into finishing things and hope that as he gains experience with that, he will develop a more realistic idea of what is involved with finishing something. It isn't a huge impossible task that is going to take a ton of energy. It isn't just dreaming about the thing. It is something in between. He sounds like a classic dreamer type. I know one. Sweet, sweet, full of great ideas, but incapable of actually finishing anything. I adore him. As he gets older, though, his self-esteem is being effected by not being able to get any of his dreams going and he is in danger of being lost. If I had to teach him, I would pick really nice tasks (like that camera) and then show him "how to eat an elephant" - break down the project into steps and then break the steps into smaller steps and then put blinders on and JUST DO THE NEXT STEP rather than thinking about the whole thing at once or pleasantly dreaming about the end result. You know what helped me see how to do this? A book called The Artist's Way. It is about how to switch from dreaming about being an artist to actually being an artist and since artists tend to work for themselves, it says over and over again, "Just do the work. Sit down and do the work. Sit down and do the next thing. Just do the work. No don't go get a cup of coffee or read your email now. Do the next thing on your list. Keep going......." Your boy may have so much else going on that he can't manage that, but I think I would try really hard to break things down into little steps and then focus him on the steps. That sounds rather like how people get through trauma, now that I think of it - they keep breathing and keep moving.

Nan

 

Love The Artist's Way, in a very removed way, since I struggle with discipline in that regard also. I just wrote a blog about motivation in general and the first paragraph is how I am avoiding something by blogging (here). I did incorporate the book suggestions, but I do need to add The Artist's Way, too.

 

 

Id also encourage him to look into what goes on with him. Sit and talk to him about the trouble you are having and see if he thinks anything would help.

 

Maybe he needs a different med?

 

We sat down this morning and broke his list of tasks down into smaller chunks that he can complete and check off. I told him he needed to finish these things he started and then we would re-evauate what we are doing this year.

 

I also took him outside to wander with the chickens and just reconnected with him a bit. I think it is really important for him to understand how much I actually like him.

[Nan in Mass]

I also took him outside to wander with the chickens and just reconnected with him a bit. I think it is really important for him to understand how much I actually like him.

 

Good idea. : )