I'm bummed

[creekland]

Just a vent, so skip if you prefer.

 

As many of you know, my youngest went back to ps in the school where I work last year for 9th grade. In 8th grade homeschoolers need to be tested in our state. He was tested and pretty much maxed out the English portion (99%) so much so that it brought his overall score up to a 98% even after an 85% in Math was figured in.

 

Today... I saw the result of his state testing. He's still "advanced" in math, but has dropped down to "proficient" in English. A kid that was top of the top nationally (national test) in 8th grade has dropped to merely proficient on our school's practice for the state test with just ONE YEAR of ps.

 

Last year I had him afterschool with math and science (his love and niche) to be better prepared than our ps offered. This year (10th grade) I've already pulled him from our English classes to do a cyber option with Keystone. Now I'm wondering if I should add afterschooling English to that too. I'm not sure. Keystone does far more than our school does, but it's not my preferred option if I had a choice.

 

I shared the results with him. He agrees that Keystone is better, but still doesn't want to come home and we're not going to make him do that for personality reasons.

 

I guess I'll wait until Dec to see what his PSAT score is.

 

I know our school way underprepares students for college and is not sufficient for top students. Somehow I just hoped my guy would be different I guess.

 

Like I said at the beginning. I'm bummed and venting.

 

In my next life, when we move somewhere (we chose this area to live in), I'll investigate school options much more closely! I went to a really good high school and somehow sort of thought all would be that way. That myth is busted!

 

Out of 17 kids in my homeroom only 4 scored advanced in math and just 1 in English. Many are in our top level classes. And one needn't be in the 99% to score advanced. I'm thinking the cut off is around 85%, but I'm not totally sure. I guess I could look that up, but not right now (time-wise).

[regentrude]

Can it be the TEST itself?

I do not think true ability is always reflected by a good test score, and I have a hard time imagining that a student who has good command of English (as his previous score demonstrates) can deteriorate to that extent just by not being challenged in school. Something does not add up. I don't think you lose these abilities that quickly. OTOH I don't think that there would be that much noticeable progress between grades to make a student's score drop dramatically just because the teaching was not good.

I would tend to suspect the test wanted them to jump through a very specific hoop and he missed the hoop - which does not mean his English has gotten worse. Just that the school did not drill effectively for this particular test.

See how the PSAT turns out.

Does the lower score have any practical consequences for him?

I'd just make sure he reads a lot outside of school; that goes a long way in developing English skills.

[Nan in Mass]

I agree with every bit of this.

[PeterPan]

And the crummy thing is, he's now at the stage where his test scores matter. Colleges aren't going to look back at his 8th grade test scores. Do you have a total cyberschool or dvd or online option that would remove the personality thing but still do a better job? VP, lots of places have just about complete offerings these days.

[regentrude]

And the crummy thing is, he's now at the stage where his test scores matter. Colleges aren't going to look back at his 8th grade test scores. .

 

I don't think any college looks at the state tests- they won't have access to the data. All they see is ACT/SAT, and doing well there has comparatively little to do with what goes on at school.

[justamouse]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Tullia]

Is the school assigning him challenging reading? Does he enjoy reading? I know that in my son's 3rd grade teacher was able to salvage a lot from a bad school year by making sure that the advanced readers were given access to challenging books and the time to read them. It was not a good long-term strategy, but better than the alternative. Curriculum and coursework matter, but reading and discussing is a necessary foundation. How to work that in is the problem. I know afterschooling was challenging in the primary grades; it must be harder in the high school years.

 

Anyhow, you said you wanted to vent, so vent away. :grouphug: BTW, the president of the new classical charter described the ideal teacher they'd like to hire. I thought of you; not interested in relocating to the high desert are you? ;)

 

ETA: regentrude has a point; the score could be a fluke. I don't blame you for being concerned, though.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Martha in NM

[KJB]

Just a vent, so skip if you prefer.

 

As many of you know, my youngest went back to ps in the school where I work last year for 9th grade. In 8th grade homeschoolers need to be tested in our state. He was tested and pretty much maxed out the English portion (99%) so much so that it brought his overall score up to a 98% even after an 85% in Math was figured in.

 

Today... I saw the result of his state testing. He's still "advanced" in math, but has dropped down to "proficient" in English. A kid that was top of the top nationally (national test) in 8th grade has dropped to merely proficient on our school's practice for the state test with just ONE YEAR of ps.

 

 

 

 

It's easier to score higher against the whole nation than it is to score high against your state or your school if you live in a competitive state. Your state test scores might be lower if you are in a good state compared to a national percentile from a national test.

 

You say your son took a practice test and scored lower? Is it possible they make the practice more difficult than the actual test?

 

A state standardized test should be fairly closely aligned with your state standards. Factors that might have driven your son's score on a national test might not show themselves on one particular state's test. Check your state standards and see if there are places where your son might benefit from extra instruction.

 

One more thing. Standardized testing is an inexact science. The PSAT, SAT, and ACT will be better indicators regarding your student's national competence than other standardized tests.

[creekland]

At this point I'll hope the score was a fluke, but I'm not more curious than ever to see what the PSAT score comes back as.

 

I guess the reason I'm really concerned is because our school's test scores are dismal - the real test scores as well as state test scores. Youngest was behind in both reading and math when he came home (after 4th grade). We had gotten him up to grade level successfully in both. Now I guess my first instinct is to think he's not staying at grade level. He's very near the top in our school, but that's not saying much.

 

Relocation is not likely to happen. ;) If it were, hubby had a job offer in SC that we would probably take (due to the economy), but that's not all that near the high desert.

 

Before we move I want all three of my boys to be in college. This is their "hometown." I just wish the hometown school offered more to top kids. It is the material that is not challenging enough for them IMO. Top kids get easy grades with little to no studying and tests are dumbed down.

 

Today I had to cover a 10th grade English class for half an hour. They were reading their book silently in class (even when the "real" teacher was there). Books ought to be read outside of class IMO with discussions about the book in class. Granted, the whole time wasn't spent reading their book, but we have so little time to teach/discuss as it is that doing homework in class doesn't help.

 

The "good" part is I was actually able to cover science in my science classes and the kids seemed interested. Discussions are fun.

[Nan in Mass]

Yes. I bet he does fine on the SATs where it counts. If I remember correctly, you do the ACTs, but you might want to consider the SATs. My impression is that they have less to do with what goes on in school than the ACTs. (I could be wrong, though.)

Nan

[FaithManor]

Yes. I bet he does fine on the SATs where it counts. If I remember correctly, you do the ACTs, but you might want to consider the SATs. My impression is that they have less to do with what goes on in school than the ACTs. (I could be wrong, though.)

Nan

 

 

I concur with Nan! The ACT's and SAT's are so much better written than the state tests. Our MEAP's are atrocious...completely, utterly atrocious.

 

A couple of year's ago one of the writing prompts for 9th grade concerned Madonna and I don't mean THE Madonna of Christendom. Now, first of all, Madonna is not the cultural phenom she once was and isn't in the news all that much. Second, I know a HUGE number of parents that don't let their kids watch MTV nor have her music in their house. So, how does one write about that subject? The same test was found to have 243 editorial errors. Spelling, incorrectly used vocabulary, questions with NO correct answer, missing punctuation, etc. Totally ridiculous. A lot of parents have been asking the State DOE to abolish the MEAPS and go back to IOWA basics for the younger kids and let the chips fall where they may in high school.

 

Please feel better!

 

Faith

[creekland]

It's easier to score higher against the whole nation than it is to score high against your state or your school if you live in a competitive state. Your state test scores might be lower if you are in a good state compared to a national percentile from a national test.

 

You say your son took a practice test and scored lower? Is it possible they make the practice more difficult than the actual test?

 

A state standardized test should be fairly closely aligned with your state standards. Factors that might have driven your son's score on a national test might not show themselves on one particular state's test. Check your state standards and see if there are places where your son might benefit from extra instruction.

 

One more thing. Standardized testing is an inexact science. The PSAT, SAT, and ACT will be better indicators regarding your student's national competence than other standardized tests.

 

I thought a little bit about this overnight. At the moment, PA's SAT scores are below average and I know our school tends to be a little bit below average for our state. I don't think the competitiveness has anything to do with it.

 

I know when I see the math/science tests, the state tests tend to be quite fair - challenging (moreso than the tests we give), but fair. A student who knows their stuff ought to be able to get a great score. One who has bumbled their way through won't be able to bumble their way through the test.

 

What I would expect is that the state test ought to align with what is expected to be taught each grade within the state. Official state tests in PA are given in 11th grade (for high school). Other years our school has adopted benchmark tests to see if kids are on track for meeting the benchmarks on the state tests. They give these tests in the fall and spring with the goal of seeing growth during the year. Up until now, these scores have never been shared with the students. They were just kept for staff knowledge, therefore, I didn't see what my guy got last year for 9th grade. I can't tell whether he did better or worse for that year. I do know they announced how the school and various grades did overall (Juniors actually declined from fall to spring!), but that's it.

 

So, I suppose at this point I'll see how he does on the PSAT. Since he's just 10th grade, the scores won't actually count, but they will give me a better look at where he's at. He does well on the SAT Question of the Day rarely missing any, but we'll see what happens on the real thing (so to speak since it's the PSAT). Since we're on block scheduling, he will be finishing Keystone by January (right after I have the PSAT results). Then over spring semester I can probably work to fill in any gaps we find. After that I'll see how he does on spring testing. If they don't share results with the students, I'll ask either formally or informally...

 

Proficient isn't "bad." It's a passing score for the state. (Basic and Below Basic are lower. Advanced is higher.) However, it's a disappointment when he went into our high school testing among the top of the top for the subject. In my homeroom class fourteen of the seventeen students tested proficient in English, though they had a fairly wide range of scores within that category. Only one made advanced. What I'm seeing and thinking is that my guy is learning up to the amount my school teaches. He's "missing" what he isn't being presented with due to the subpar education offered.

Edited September 24, 2011 by creekland

[creekland]

Yes. I bet he does fine on the SATs where it counts. If I remember correctly, you do the ACTs, but you might want to consider the SATs. My impression is that they have less to do with what goes on in school than the ACTs. (I could be wrong, though.)

Nan

 

We test at home to see which my guys do better on. So far it's been the ACT, but each student is an individual, so we'll see. ;)

[Amy in TX]

:grouphug: to you, too.