Enough English (grammar) in MFW high school?

[jbrig]

Our small Christian school will be piloting MFW AHL for the 9th grade this year. I am really excited about this, having researched it extensively these past few months. However, the teacher is expressing some concern about the (lack of in-depth) grammar lessons throughout the year, and how that might impact their college prep.

 

For those of you who use/have used MFW in high school, what has been your experience?

 

Thanks

[cbollin]

I've used MFW since my oldest was in 2nd grade. My oldest is in 10th grade, WHL this year.

 

my experiences?

In the MFW scope and sequence we taught in depth grammar in jr. high, so that at high school level it is only review needed. In high school the students need to write and grammar becomes more of a tool for editing purposes.

 

I'm not concerned about grammar being done in small bites in the context of editing writing. It's pretty much like I remember my high school college track and AP English class. We didn't do in depth grammar. It was reviewed in high school.

 

However, I did notice on mfw's website that if a teacher thinks a student needs more grammar and didn't get a solid grammar instruction in jr. high then use the Applications of Grammar book with that student in 9th grade. Also, in 11th grade program (US1) the high school level of Easy Grammar is used, and that is review mode as well for keeping skills sharp.

 

The grammar lessons in AHL are in the Lit and Comp guide. I think it was plenty in there. Without going into my dd's room this early in the morning, I remember the last few weeks in the comp/lit guide had a lot of grammar. All through the year, when writing essays, grammar review was part of the guide. It's possible the teacher has not looked closely at all of the writing and grammar instruction in that guide? If nothing else, encourage her to call MFW's office and talk about the ways to incorporate Applications of Grammar for the students who need it in her school.

 

 

-crystal

[1Togo]

nm

Edited August 19, 2011 by 1Togo

[jbrig]

The majority of these students have used Abeka for English, from K-8th grade, so their English skills are strong. Previously, when I spoke w/ Brett W. at MFW, he indicated that that was an excellent start. I need to clarify w/ the teacher and administrator, but I think their concerns were not so much about the students' prior foundational English instruction, but they wanted to insure that it continued in as strong a vein.

[Julie in MN]

Hi,

I answered you over on the yahoo group but those threads are harder to read for me.

 

Anyways, I wondered if she had had a chance to look through the Literature & Composition supplement. As the other folks mentioned, that is where the AHL grammar lessons are located. This is a link to a sample at the Smarr website. It's not from AHL, but it is similar, since the AHL Lit & Comp book is an adapted Smarr product. http://www.smarrpublishers.com/samplew.pdf

 

Also as mentioned, I really liked how grammar was studied in the context of finding these issues within the student's own writing. So there might be a lesson on not using pronouns as subjects, and then the student goes through their last essay and identifies areas where they used pronouns as subjects. You can see that part at the very end of the sample above.

 

Some of the grammar lessons at the end of the year were quite challenging and I had to step in and go over the verbals again with my son in a more "big picture" way. Maybe if your teacher gets a chance to look through those, she will feel better :)

 

Julie

Edited August 13, 2011 by Julie in MN

[Melissa in CA]

I have no additional insights for you on this, but I am so thankful you asked the question as I, too, will be using AHL this coming year (starting next Monday!) with my 9th grader. I was going back and forth, and back and forth again, on whether I should add in some grammar...I'm a little anal about grammar due to not knowing it well myself...but, after reading the posts I feel better in going with AHL as is. My ds is strong in grammar and, should he lose ground this year, there is always 10th, 11th, and 12th grades to get back up to par. ;)

 

No worries, I say!:D

 

(Of course, I may very well panic mid-year and throw some CLE grammar at him. Did I tell you that I am a little anal about grammar? haha)

[TXBeth]

Hi,

 

Also as mentioned, I really liked how grammar was studied in the context of finding these issues within the student's own writing. So there might be a lesson on not using pronouns as subjects, and then the student goes through their last essay and identifies areas where they used pronouns as subjects. You can see that part at the very end of the sample above.

 

Julie

 

OK, this is quite a derail, but is this a real example? They tell you not to use pronouns as subjects? Ever, or just not the majority of the time? That is so weird.

[cbollin]

OK, this is quite a derail, but is this a real example? They tell you not to use pronouns as subjects? Ever, or just not the majority of the time? That is so weird.

 

In the specifics of that assignment, it makes a lot of sense. It's in the content of an argumentative essay and being specific with the nouns instead of They say, or "it is".... as well as not overusing pronouns.

 

I thought the actual lesson in context made sense and wasn't weird. I noticed my daughter had a tendency to over use pronouns and I'd forgot what the noun was that it referred to.

 

-crystal

[cbollin]

 

 

(Of course, I may very well panic mid-year and throw some CLE grammar at him. Did I tell you that I am a little anal about grammar? haha)

 

giggle giggle...

 

if needed, you can add in a few minutes day with grammar lessons as part of the English "hour". Almost like the way in elementary one can do 5 minutes of math drills to start math class. Grammar drill/workbook for a few minutes to start or finish out an "academic" hour class.

 

-crystal

[3byzaz]

I am certainly no expert and not very rigorous compared to many here, but it did look a bit on the light side to me. We have always used CLE and love it. I bought the 9th grade English Lightunit's 1 - 4. (#5 is Speech which he is taking at co-op.) He did 1 over the summer. He will only need to do 2 lessons a week at most just to keep those skills sharp. This son also writes extremely well, so the Lit & Grammar supplement does not seem very challenging for him from what I can see...but I didn't look toooo close!! :)

[Julie in MN]

OK, this is quite a derail, but is this a real example? They tell you not to use pronouns as subjects? Ever, or just not the majority of the time? That is so weird.

 

Yes, in academic, nonfiction writing, I think it is pretty common to advise that you avoid or at least tightly control your use of pronouns. I would even minimize use of pronouns as objects, unless it really gets bulky with repetitive nouns. In some cases, rewording the sentence avoids the pronoun/noun altogether, and in other cases the noun is restated a little more often than you may be used to when speaking.

 

Try it, you'll like it :)

Julie

[SonshineLearner]

Hi There ;) I really want to hear how this goes for your highschool. We're using it in our once a week co-op and we're really excited. :) We're using Our Mother Tongue as a supplement for grammar.

[Julie in MN]

I am certainly no expert and not very rigorous compared to many here, but it did look a bit on the light side to me. We have always used CLE and love it. I bought the 9th grade English Lightunit's 1 - 4. (#5 is Speech which he is taking at co-op.) He did 1 over the summer. He will only need to do 2 lessons a week at most just to keep those skills sharp. This son also writes extremely well, so the Lit & Grammar supplement does not seem very challenging for him from what I can see...but I didn't look toooo close!! :)

 

Well, there are definitely chunks during the year where there is no grammar whatsoever. If you're not comfy with that, you can pull out the various grammar books that I KNOW you have on your shelf LOL :)

 

But there is grammar. The first 67 pages of the Lit Supplement are about essay writing and grammar only. However, they are spread out during the year when you are not studying a work of literature, and there's a strong end-of-year grammar burst. It might not be enough for some; it was plenty at our house. We aren't grammar workbook people, though. We talk about grammar within writing.

 

But easy enough to adjust either way.

 

And writing, well, I can't see how an essay can be anything but challenging -- you just expect more as the student's writing improves. I've never seen an essay I couldn't edit & improve, including my own :tongue_smilie:

 

Julie

[cbollin]

I am certainly no expert and not very rigorous compared to many here, but it did look a bit on the light side to me. We have always used CLE and love it. I bought the 9th grade English Lightunit's 1 - 4. (#5 is Speech which he is taking at co-op.) He did 1 over the summer. He will only need to do 2 lessons a week at most just to keep those skills sharp. This son also writes extremely well, so the Lit & Grammar supplement does not seem very challenging for him from what I can see...but I didn't look toooo close!! :)

 

got to agree with Julie that essay writing is adjustable based on skills of the student. I think you'll find the topic suggestions for essays to be a lot of critical thinking and analysis. It is certainly more than I did in my AP English 12th grade classes. I never had to write that much. and if he is truly gifted in writing, then expect more from the assignment. I found that a lot of the "challenge" with it was allowing my advanced thinking daughter to develop her own worldview with the topics. oh bummer. I don't know where her lit/comp guide is from last year right now.... some of the essay topic suggestions were good to think on and let them develop on their own. And she really liked the proverbs project and psalm project. I had no idea she had some creative writing in her to get out.

 

all of that to say, I do hope it turns out as advanced for you as it did for her. (edit to add.... if the writing assignments are not challenging enough, could you ask him to do several of the topics instead of just one?)

 

 

Again, when a scope and sequence covers in depth grammar in jr. high, yes, the grammar in high school will look "light". But that doesn't indicate it is inadequate. But by all means, if a child is developing an interest in a field that requires even more grammar, add it in.

Or when switching between programs to catch missing gaps and things - I can see how it would be a good thing to do.

 

-crystal

Edited August 14, 2011 by cbollin

[3byzaz]

Yup, definitely know that I can require more or additional! Just sayin' they aren't as challenging as what he had been doing, but it's all good!