Poor handwriting going into high school

[Misty]

My almost 14yr old daughter has dysgraphia. Her spelling is fine and her reading is fantastic. She just has a difficult time with fine motor skills, especially handwriting. She knows how to type and she types most everything. She does really well with typing..

 

But I feel like I need to try to remediate her handwriting one last time. She has been using Getty/Dubay Italics since 2nd grade, I think. She always had this horrible pencil grip and no matter what I tried to do, I couldn't correct it. Now her handwriting still looks like a 3rd grader's most of the time. She writes in print and it's so horribly sloppy. She gets over emotional when I tell her to correct it. She writes really fast and is impulsive and wants to finish everything quickly. So that is one problem. But she also has visual-spatial issues and organization/working memory issues. And she has mild Asperger's and mild Tourette's. She could care less what her handwriting looks like.. This has been an ongoing *thing* between us since we began homeschooling 10 years ago. I really want to get it legible somehow though before she goes to college and before she enters adulthood. I kept thinking it would get better on its own when she started to care about it. But that never happened.

 

So how would you remediate dysgraphia in a 14yr old? She complains when I give her work that seems too childish.. She is extremely intelligent, well read, very creative, and knowledgable. So she feels insulted when I give her remedial work on anything. Maybe I shouldn't do this?

[Laura Corin]

I'm not sure it's worth it at this stage. My only concern would be the SAT. Can she get special dispensation to use a computer for that, based on her history of difficulties? Calvin is in a similar position, and has permission to use a keyboard for exams.

 

At this stage, and with the trouble it might cause between you to attempt to fix it again, it's worth thinking how much she is actually going to be using handwriting in the rest of her life...

 

Laura

[merry gardens]

My almost 14yr old daughter has dysgraphia. Her spelling is fine and her reading is fantastic. She just has a difficult time with fine motor skills, especially handwriting. She knows how to type and she types most everything. She does really well with typing..

 

But I feel like I need to try to remediate her handwriting one last time. She has been using Getty/Dubay Italics since 2nd grade, I think. She always had this horrible pencil grip and no matter what I tried to do, I couldn't correct it. Now her handwriting still looks like a 3rd grader's most of the time. She writes in print and it's so horribly sloppy. She gets over emotional when I tell her to correct it. She writes really fast and is impulsive and wants to finish everything quickly. So that is one problem. But she also has visual-spatial issues and organization/working memory issues. And she has mild Asperger's and mild Tourette's. She could care less what her handwriting looks like.. This has been an ongoing *thing* between us since we began homeschooling 10 years ago. I really want to get it legible somehow though before she goes to college and before she enters adulthood. I kept thinking it would get better on its own when she started to care about it. But that never happened.

 

So how would you remediate dysgraphia in a 14yr old? She complains when I give her work that seems too childish.. She is extremely intelligent, well read, very creative, and knowledgable. So she feels insulted when I give her remedial work on anything. Maybe I shouldn't do this?

Try Callirobics. http://www.therapro.com/Callirobics-C4551.aspx We did one of their programs repeatedly last year. My children enjoyed it, and it produced good results for their handwriting. The teal colored version that we used has energetic music that's not particularly childish. But if you are worried about that, there's a version for adults.

 

Callirobics is not letter formation--it's much more like artistic doodles. If she's creative she may enjoy the artistry that's built into the program. Adding Calligraphy pens might even enhance that! For some variety, we're going to try using calligraphy pens and graph paper with the exercises and music from the program we used last year. Perhaps we will move onto the advanced or adult version at some point, but somehow we'll continue working on those basic hand exercises.

[PeterPan]

Have you already done OT and gotten a VT eval? My dd's handwriting changed radically just with 3 months of VT. We've done some callirobics and need to do more. It's addressing motor control, which is different. VT will look at the eyes. OT will look at her muscle tone, strength, and see *why* she's holding the pencil so oddly.

 

You may have done those things, just tossing 'em out.

[merry gardens]

My almost 14yr old daughter has dysgraphia. Her spelling is fine and her reading is fantastic. She just has a difficult time with fine motor skills, especially handwriting. She knows how to type and she types most everything. She does really well with typing..

 

But I feel like I need to try to remediate her handwriting one last time. She has been using Getty/Dubay Italics since 2nd grade, I think. She always had this horrible pencil grip and no matter what I tried to do, I couldn't correct it. Now her handwriting still looks like a 3rd grader's most of the time. She writes in print and it's so horribly sloppy. She gets over emotional when I tell her to correct it. She writes really fast and is impulsive and wants to finish everything quickly. So that is one problem. But she also has visual-spatial issues and organization/working memory issues. And she has mild Asperger's and mild Tourette's. She could care less what her handwriting looks like.. This has been an ongoing *thing* between us since we began homeschooling 10 years ago. I really want to get it legible somehow though before she goes to college and before she enters adulthood. I kept thinking it would get better on its own when she started to care about it. But that never happened.

 

So how would you remediate dysgraphia in a 14yr old? She complains when I give her work that seems too childish.. She is extremely intelligent, well read, very creative, and knowledgable. So she feels insulted when I give her remedial work on anything. Maybe I shouldn't do this?

More thoughts. While we did Callirobics, we also did lots of other things to build hand strength. Handstrengthening exercises don't have to look remedial. Manually kneeding bread strengthens the hand muscles. Old fashioned kitchen tools like rolling pins, flour sifters, can openers and egg beaters strengthen the hand muscles. In other words, maybe try disguising your work to improve her handwriting classes by getting your daughter to help you in the kitchen. :) Baking cookies together could be therapeutic.

 

Getting her to help carry groceries and laundry might also help both of you. Somewhere in reading about writing, it came up that some people hold pencils oddly for get visual feedback to where their hands are, and weight bearing exercises were suggested.

Someone suggested squirt bottles and cleaning windows to develop hand muscles on another thread recently. If nothing else, by doing these activies with our children, our homes will be cleaner and our families fed. :D

 

(Besides kitchen work, clay and wind up toys, he also used a weighted glove for while when doing his Callirobic exercises.)

Edited August 10, 2011 by merry gardens

[Guest]

It can be really, really difficult to try to work on remediation with a resistant teenager (says one who knows), and like Laura, I don't know that I'd try at this point. I'd put a good deal of energy into getting her a dispensation to use a keyboard whenever she is in a situation where she needs to write; and into getting an official note or 504 of some kind that would qualify her for a note-taker in college. I don't know myself what the required process is to get this, but I know that kids can qualify and get notes taken for them, or access to professors' lecture notes.

 

How is her writing for math? Science? Those would be two potential areas where using a keyboard for all assignments and tests would be more difficult, I would think.

[butterflymommy]

If she has the official dysgraphia diagnosis, don't worry about her writing as long as she can type. Any testing or school/ college she enters will be required to accommodate her. That is just my 2 cents, being in the same boat with my 14 yr old son.

[Misty]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.. She does not have an official diagnosis of dysgraphia. She started to do OT when she was 4 years old, but then insurance decided to not pay.. And I didn't learn how to navigate our insurance well and get things paid for until she was much older and my younger ones started to need the therapies. So she sort of missed the boat on OT.

 

The only things she is diagnosed with is OCD, Tourette's, ADHD-predominantly innattentive, "Asperger traits", and borderline dyscalculia.

 

As far as math and science goes.. She cannot line up math problems properly.. She has to use graph paper and even then she still screws it up somehow. She definitely has some visual-spatial issues. She also has difficulty with non-verbal problem solving. Math is very difficult for her.

 

OhElizabeth.. She has not been evaluated for vision therapy. She began reading very early and reads very fast. So I don't think she would test as having any issues. Or would she? My 8yr old desperately needs vision therapy, but we have not done it yet. It's quite a drive for us and costly as well. We've been doing various crossing-the-midline exercises and things like that.

 

I guess the things I am mostly worried about are taking notes in college and handwritten essays. I also worry about the SAT being compromised because of her tendency to make mistakes due to her visual-spatial issues.

 

So do you think I should take her to an OT to get her officially diagnosed and then try to make sure she is accomodated for the SAT and in college? Is an OT the only professional who can diagnose dysgraphia?

[Misty]

Try Callirobics. http://www.therapro.com/Callirobics-C4551.aspx We did one of their programs repeatedly last year. My children enjoyed it, and it produced good results for their handwriting. The teal colored version that we used has energetic music that's not particularly childish. But if you are worried about that, there's a version for adults.

 

Thank you! This looks interesting.. I might give it a try.

[RamonaQ]

It can be really, really difficult to try to work on remediation with a resistant teenager (says one who knows), and like Laura, I don't know that I'd try at this point. I'd put a good deal of energy into getting her a dispensation to use a keyboard whenever she is in a situation where she needs to write; and into getting an official note or 504 of some kind that would qualify her for a note-taker in college. I don't know myself what the required process is to get this, but I know that kids can qualify and get notes taken for them, or access to professors' lecture notes.

 

How is her writing for math? Science? Those would be two potential areas where using a keyboard for all assignments and tests would be more difficult, I would think.

 

:iagree: I would start researching about what the necessary steps for accomodation on the SAT and begin having the appropriate paper trail.

[PeterPan]

You don't know on the VT till you have them checked. It would be a bummer to try a bunch of other stuff and realize there were foundational causes that could be worked on first. The VT eval will also turn up retained primitive reflexes, which overlaps with OT. The VT doc should be able to do a regular exam and just screen for deeper stuff, going deeper only if warranted. That would be another way to save money.

 

Just so you know, Callirobics is really hard when you combine the difficulty with the motor control plus the attention issues. They claim my dd's working memory and attention issues are due to sensory. I have no clue. I'm just throwing that out because you may experience the same thing, given your laundry list. Trying to do the exercises WITH the music really wigged her out. We've given up, and I've told her she can, for the time-being, do the exercises without. Maybe when that part gets easier she can go back and do it with the music in the background to build fluency and rhythm.

 

I guess you just have to work with what you have. KarenAnne is pointing out that the aspie part of them coupled with the age can make them resistant to change, resistant to the therapies. My dd on the other hand, no aspie traits but just two years younger, did fine with therapy, didn't resist at all. You just have to know your kid to know whether those things would be open to you. For us just getting the eval was helpful, having someone show us WHY she was having the problems, kwim?

[Guest]

As far as math and science goes.. She cannot line up math problems properly.. She has to use graph paper and even then she still screws it up somehow. She definitely has some visual-spatial issues. She also has difficulty with non-verbal problem solving. Math is very difficult for her.

 

OhElizabeth.. She has not been evaluated for vision therapy. She began reading very early and reads very fast. So I don't think she would test as having any issues. Or would she?

 

My dd also read far above grade level, but she had the VS issues too -- lining up numbers, reversing and flipping numbers and pairs of numbers, writing in a disorganized way all over the paper, as well as the dysgraphia.

 

In dd's case, there were definite visual processing and eye teaming issues, as well as problems with peripheral vision and depth perception. I watched stunned as I saw the actual tests, saw dd shutting down one eye and relying solely on the other, having terrible trouble lining things up, doing things that combined hand and eye coordination. She loved reading so much she had compensated for that, but it showed in terms of limited stamina for reading and an inability to read smaller print.

 

After seven or so months of vision therapy, she picked up adult novels in fine print and began reading them at the rate of one every other day.

 

Her handwriting, which was AWFUL, began to straighten out. I had been dreading algebra and geometry, but she was able not only to do those, but to sail through them, teaching herself using a regular textbook, getting nearly every single problem correct over the course of the whole year.

 

So, vision processing issues CAN be a huge, huge part of what's underlying your dd's issues despite her reading abilities... or it could have little to do with that. You just don't know. That's why it could be very worth your while to have her evaluated by someone who does VT. Ask OhElizabeth about how to choose a good one; she's done amazing mountains of research where we just lucked into one who happened to be a speaker at an Asperger's support group I used to attend.

 

Whatever course you choose, I'd research accommodations also, and begin whatever process you need to have those in place for your daughter for the time she begins to take outside classes of any kind.

 

I know the thought of a stretch of therapy can just seem overwhelming in terms of time, energy, and money. But if an evaluation does show issues, that time, energy, and money will be so well spent and will repay you over and over again in coming years.

[Misty]

You don't know on the VT till you have them checked. It would be a bummer to try a bunch of other stuff and realize there were foundational causes that could be worked on first. The VT eval will also turn up retained primitive reflexes, which overlaps with OT.

 

Yes, these are the issues my 8yr old deals with.. The VT eval revealed a retained moro reflex. I never thought to take my older daughter in since she was always such a fluent reader from a very early age.. I'm rethinking that now.

 

I guess you just have to work with what you have. KarenAnne is pointing out that the aspie part of them coupled with the age can make them resistant to change, resistant to the therapies.

 

Yep, that's definitely her! I think I'm going to have a good talk with her and see if SHE wants to take the time to remediate her handwriting. Because if she doesn't want to, I think it would all be a waste of time.. However, I do think the vision therapy is worth pursuing as a foundational cause and perhaps the penmanship will improve as a result?

 

Thanks ladies!

[Misty]

My dd also read far above grade level, but she had the VS issues too -- lining up numbers, reversing and flipping numbers and pairs of numbers, writing in a disorganized way all over the paper, as well as the dysgraphia.

 

So, vision processing issues CAN be a huge, huge part of what's underlying your dd's issues despite her reading abilities... or it could have little to do with that. You just don't know. That's why it could be very worth your while to have her evaluated by someone who does VT.

 

Thanks KarenAnne.. I think this is definitely worth pursuing. I'll take her to the same VT I took my other two girls to.. Even if we can't do the vision therapy right now, at least I'll know what her issues are.

[PeterPan]

Misty, absolutely I think you're wise to get her evaluated by the VT. My one comment would be not to connect the handwriting and the VT eval. If you do and she doesn't *want* to work on her handwriting, then you're in a pickle, kwim? Everyone should get their eyes checked, just like going to the dentist or something. But I don't know her psychology. I'm just saying I wouldn't connect them. *If* she needs VT, the benefits will extend way beyond just her handwriting.

 

Oh, they may be able to get the cost down, or you may be able to carry your dd's homework over to work with your older. Or they may be able to work something out. You just have to see. But I think you're wise to get the eval. And yes, my dd has always been a good reader. The VT just turned her into an extra-good reader. :)

[Misty]

Misty, absolutely I think you're wise to get her evaluated by the VT. My one comment would be not to connect the handwriting and the VT eval. If you do and she doesn't *want* to work on her handwriting, then you're in a pickle, kwim?

 

Good call.. I will be sure to not connect them in her mind.

 

And yes, my dd has always been a good reader. The VT just turned her into an extra-good reader. :)

 

Okay, my daughter is already an extra-good reader though.. She literally reads freaky fast.. She looks at a page for 5 seconds and she's done. And her recall is fantastic.. Her comprehension isn't great (age appropriate at best).. but her recall of what she read (as long as she enjoys what she's reading) is phenomenal. She reads obsessively.. Like, a novel a day. Is the VT going to think I'm crazy for bringing her in for an eval?

[Guest]

She reads obsessively.. Like, a novel a day. Is the VT going to think I'm crazy for bringing her in for an eval?

 

Not at all. A good VT knows there are a lot of different aspects to fully functioning visual processing, not all of which have anything whatever to do with reading.