Potty Training Phobia

[Tracy]

Sorry this is so long!

 

Ds is 3.5yo and still not potty trained. We waited to try the first time until 3yo. (That is what I did with older dd, and it was a piece of cake.) But ds was so upset by the whole thing that we decided to wait a bit. Then we tried at the beginning of the summer, and same scenario. We tried stickers and M&Ms, which worked to get him to put on underwear and sit on the toilet a couple of times, but then he decided it wasn't worth it. He cried so hard, and it was clear that he wasn't being uncooperative or rebellious (which is not like him, anyway) but that he was intensely anxious.

 

I have researched and prayed and considered for a long time, and we thought that perhaps he needed a little push, along with lots of praise and cheering and rewards for even the smallest steps. So we told him that we are not buying any more diapers. We have pull-ups that will be used only for naps/nighttime and outings. We have rewards for putting underwear on and for sitting on the potty, even if he doesn't pee and even if he wets himself. When we started, he cried a lot when he sat on the potty and when he wet himself. It was truly traumatic. But we stayed calm and offered the rewards and cheered him on. After a couple of days, he is finally excited that he can sit on the potty without crying.

 

We told him that we would take him to ride the go-carts if he peed in the potty (something he has been asking to do for a long time). Last night, he actually peed a little bit in the potty. You would think he would be excited. But he just cried. (Though he was later excited to go on the go-carts.)

 

So dh took him to the go-carts this morning, and then we told him that if he pees on the potty 5 times, he could go bowling (a loved activity). We have stickers and chart with a big picture of a bowling ball and pins. He has been going on the potty every 5-10 minutes, but he never pees. Then when he finally did start to pee, he started to cry and said he wanted to get up. I tried to get him to stay long enough to finish, but he was hysterical over it.

 

He is clearly trying very hard. We have seen in speech therapy that he has a tendency to not participate in anything unless he is confident that he can do it. So that might be part of it. He also hates being dirty, and a couple of times, he as peed on the floor, and that really upsets him. He is a big boy, and the potty chair is really too small for him. But he is so terrified of the adult toilet, and don't think I can get him to try that.

 

Anyone dealt with this before? Any ideas how I can help him overcome his anxiety? Maybe I need to hold off on potty training for a while? But then am I teaching him that all he needs to do is cry, and he won't have to this?

[meggie]

oh my gosh, that sounds like my oldest in so many ways (scared to sit on the potty, scared to do anything unless he can do it perfectly, scared of pretty much everything). I don't know if I have any useful tips for you, but here's what we did (the time it finally worked): Any time I thought of it, I'd have him sit on his little potty chair fully clothed. He could read, watch TV, whatever. Then once he stopped crying about that, he could sit on it with pants off, diaper on. Then we moved to diaper off. The little potty really took away his anxiety about it. Then we moved to underwear. After a few accidents, he learned to go pee in the little potty.

 

Since there was absolutely no way on God's green earth I'd be cleaning poo out of that thing, I kept a close eye on him and when he started grunting and groaning, to the big toilet he went. Walmart has a foamy insert you can put on the toilet that makes the hole smaller that we use for when he has to go poo. I had to hold on to him for awhile and a few times while I was holding him, I had to show him that there was absolutely no way he could fall through. He is five and a half and still uses that thing. Once he started getting a good hang of it, he was promised a puzzle (what he really wanted) when he went two days with no accidents.

 

If you feel like waiting would be a better idea, I think it would be ok to wait. My friend's son wasn't toilet trained until he was 4. My son was about 3 years 9 months.

[Tracy]

oh my gosh, that sounds like my oldest in so many ways (scared to sit on the potty, scared to do anything unless he can do it perfectly, scared of pretty much everything). I don't know if I have any useful tips for you, but here's what we did (the time it finally worked): Any time I thought of it, I'd have him sit on his little potty chair fully clothed. He could read, watch TV, whatever. Then once he stopped crying about that, he could sit on it with pants off, diaper on. Then we moved to diaper off. The little potty really took away his anxiety about it. Then we moved to underwear. After a few accidents, he learned to go pee in the little potty.

 

I did try to get him to sit on it with clothes on, but he adamantly refused. But I guess I had a hard time insisting, because I could understand not wanting to sit on it without a good reason.

 

Since there was absolutely no way on God's green earth I'd be cleaning poo out of that thing, I kept a close eye on him and when he started grunting and groaning, to the big toilet he went. Walmart has a foamy insert you can put on the toilet that makes the hole smaller that we use for when he has to go poo. I had to hold on to him for awhile and a few times while I was holding him, I had to show him that there was absolutely no way he could fall through. He is five and a half and still uses that thing. Once he started getting a good hang of it, he was promised a puzzle (what he really wanted) when he went two days with no accidents.

 

If you feel like waiting would be a better idea, I think it would be ok to wait. My friend's son wasn't toilet trained until he was 4. My son was about 3 years 9 months.

 

I have thought about the inserts for the big toilet. He actually really needs it since he is such a big kid. (He weighs the same as dd6.) I have been concerned about increasing his anxiety, but perhaps we will give it a try, anyway.

 

Thanks so much for sharing. I really needed to not feel alone in this.

[wapiti]

Have you already tried having him go naked from the waist down for a number of days in a row? Sometimes that helps them notice the urge. (LOL step 1).

 

Also most recent trainee (#5) didn't have success on the potty until i acted as though i wasn't paying any attention at all - i put him on the potty when we were rushing to get into the car and told him he had to go before we left. i went away to do something and lo and behold he peed. The same thing had to happen several more times before he really got it. He had been struggling with the ability to relax the muscles enough to let the pee out. it sounds as if your ds might have a similar problem - too much pressure (probably self-inflicted). Also while i'd be happy with his success i would not build it up to be this huge enormous event when it does happen.

 

just my two cents :)

 

Also my dc all trained with the insert for the toilet. i can't tell you how many little plastic potties i have that no one has ever used :glare: (eta - i.e. used to pee on. apparently there are numerous other uses.)

Edited July 27, 2011 by wapiti

[Tracy]

Have you already tried having him go naked from the waist down for a number of days in a row? Sometimes that helps them notice the urge. (LOL step 1).

 

Also most recent trainee (#5) didn't have success on the potty until i acted as though i wasn't paying any attention at all - i put him on the potty when we were rushing to get into the car and told him he had to go before we left. i went away to do something and lo and behold he peed. The same thing had to happen several more times before he really got it. He had been struggling with the ability to relax the muscles enough to let the pee out. it sounds as if your ds might have a similar problem - too much pressure (probably self-inflicted). Also while i'd be happy with his success i would not build it up to be this huge enormous event when it does happen.

 

just my two cents :)

 

Yes, we have tried having him go naked. He is afraid of that, too.

 

Can you explain a little more about why we shouldn't build it up to that big enormous event? I think I understand what you are saying--that maybe that puts more pressure on him? But I am not sure if you are suggesting that we shouldn't have a big reward for it?

[Joanne]

Ds is 3.5yo and still not potty trained. We waited to try the first time until 3yo. (That is what I did with older dd, and it was a piece of cake.) But ds was so upset by the whole thing that we decided to wait a bit. Then we tried at the beginning of the summer, and same scenario. We tried stickers and M&Ms, which worked to get him to put on underwear and sit on the toilet a couple of times, but then he decided it wasn't worth it. He cried so hard, and it was clear that he wasn't being uncooperative or rebellious (which is not like him, anyway) but that he was intensely anxious.

 

I have researched and prayed and considered for a long time, and we thought that perhaps he needed a little push, along with lots of praise and cheering and rewards for even the smallest steps. So we told him that we are not buying any more diapers. We have pull-ups that will be used only for naps/nighttime and outings. We have rewards for putting underwear on and for sitting on the potty, even if he doesn't pee and even if he wets himself. When we started, he cried a lot when he sat on the potty and when he wet himself. It was truly traumatic. But we stayed calm and offered the rewards and cheered him on. After a couple of days, he is finally excited that he can sit on the potty without crying.

 

He is clearly trying very hard. We have seen in speech therapy that he has a tendency to not participate in anything unless he is confident that he can do it. So that might be part of it. He also hates being dirty, and a couple of times, he as peed on the floor, and that really upsets him. He is a big boy, and the potty chair is really too small for him. But he is so terrified of the adult toilet, and don't think I can get him to try that.

 

Anyone dealt with this before? Any ideas how I can help him overcome his anxiety? Maybe I need to hold off on potty training for a while? But then am I teaching him that all he needs to do is cry, and he won't have to this?

 

I'm guessing, the constellation of issues together (anxiety, speech issues, sensory issues) that this is a physiological/mental issue.

 

I suggest you abandon the "token economy". It likely stresses him, with the rewards and expectations.

 

I support you in holding off until he matures into being able to handle all this better.

 

Have you ever had him in OT?

[Mandamom]

I had to hold on to him for awhile and a few times while I was holding him, I had to show him that there was absolutely no way he could fall through.

 

 

My daughter had a really rough time potty training and I finally had to force the matter and I had to hold her for 2 weeks and after that she was fine. She was older than your son.

 

We had a terrible time getting her to use the potty but once she got over the anxiety she was fine. She is not an anxious person and comes across as a confident person so I have no idea where it came from. I'm just glad it is over :)

[Lara in Colo]

I did the run around "naked" thing--modified. We had a potty training dress and no underwear (yes for the boy too). I put the potty chair in the middle of the TV room and they watched TV, then went pee wear they were (lots of coolaid and a cold room helps too). There was no pressure, just a place to sit while you watch Dora, then a place to pee too!!!!

 

I think your child has more needs than this can fix, but I just thought I would throw it out there.

[wapiti]

Yes, we have tried having him go naked. He is afraid of that, too.

 

Can you explain a little more about why we shouldn't build it up to that big enormous event? I think I understand what you are saying--that maybe that puts more pressure on him? But I am not sure if you are suggesting that we shouldn't have a big reward for it?

 

i'm suggesting a small reward (e.g. we do one fruit snac for pee and two for #2) (sorry my ceyboard is brocen and i'm tired of copying letters from other text lol). And yes - too big a reward may add to the pressure; you noticed he already wants to do it but he has been unable to literally relax the muscle.

 

FWiW this is not unusual for a late talcing child - to have trouble with potty training.

 

does he have sensory issues? being afraid of being naced? if you could manage to get him naced - say after the bath - and let him stay that way for a while - i'd then remind him to sit on the potty once every two hours. surely he'll have accidents but then he'll recognize the urge.

 

i'd also give him as much privacy as possible when he's sitting on the potty. Leave the door open but go about your business nearby as though you are not paying attention.

 

i have to run.... these are just ideas....

[Tracy]

I'm guessing, the constellation of issues together (anxiety, speech issues, sensory issues) that this is a physiological/mental issue.

 

I suggest you abandon the "token economy". It likely stresses him, with the rewards and expectations.

 

I support you in holding off until he matures into being able to handle all this better.

 

Have you ever had him in OT?

 

He was evaluated last year, but the OT said he was borderline. She said he seemed to have strong sensory preferences but that ultimately they were not interfering with his life.

 

i'm suggesting a small reward (e.g. we do one fruit snac for pee and two for #2) (sorry my ceyboard is brocen and i'm tired of copying letters from other text lol). And yes - too big a reward may add to the pressure; you noticed he already wants to do it but he has been unable to literally relax the muscle.

 

FWiW this is not unusual for a late talcing child - to have trouble with potty training.

 

does he have sensory issues? being afraid of being naced? if you could manage to get him naced - say after the bath - and let him stay that way for a while - i'd then remind him to sit on the potty once every two hours. surely he'll have accidents but then he'll recognize the urge.

 

i'd also give him as much privacy as possible when he's sitting on the potty. Leave the door open but go about your business nearby as though you are not paying attention.

 

i have to run.... these are just ideas....

 

Yes, he definitely does have sensory issues. I will run around a little after a bath with no clothes on and even dance a little. But he doesn't want to stay that way.

 

I don't have to remind him to sit on the potty. He has been sitting on the potty himself every 10 minutes or so. He is just freaked out about peeing.

 

I have tried to give him privacy, because that is what he asks for when he is going in his diaper. But he won't let me leave.

[wapiti]

He was evaluated last year, but the OT said he was borderline. She said he seemed to have strong sensory preferences but that ultimately they were not interfering with his life.

 

 

 

Yes, he definitely does have sensory issues. I will run around a little after a bath with no clothes on and even dance a little. But he doesn't want to stay that way.

 

I don't have to remind him to sit on the potty. He has been sitting on the potty himself every 10 minutes or so. He is just freaked out about peeing.

 

I have tried to give him privacy, because that is what he asks for when he is going in his diaper. But he won't let me leave.

 

hmmm.... just thincing some more out loud... i'd say that's too often but i can't quite figure out why i thinc so...

 

if he won't let you leave - another option to try is to hold him while he sits on the big potty (on the insert) when you are sure he's got to go. with my ds3 (the one who just trained this summer) i'd sit on the stool in front of the potty but sideways so i wasn't loocing at him and have my arm around him. ultimately we had to switch to where i don't pay attention but all cids are different - it might be worth a try.

 

oh and :grouphug::grouphug: i now how stressful this can be

[scmama]

My kids were always anxious about potty training. My last boy, just now turned 5, was the hardest, and the latest, didn't even start thinking about it, trying it, or wanted anything to do with it until 4. I don't know why.

 

 

I've never used those little potty chairs either, we always used the little inserts, makes transitions easier on them too. While my first 2 were fine, the only thing that excited the last child was that I allowed him to pee on every tree available to him! I know it probably sounds awful or inappropriate, but it honestly worked. Candy, stickers, m&ms, treats, and rewards of any type did NOT encourage him or appeal to him. Some kids enjoy the notion of becoming a big kid, others really do get anxious. I kept telling my son, you'll be a big boy and get to wear big boy underwear, just like daddy...all that great positive reinforcement...yeah that didn't fly either. HE would tell me, he wasn't going to be a big kid, and didn't like daddy's underwear anyways, and that he wanted to be the baby forever. LOL

 

Just take your time, and be patient, it will happen.

(Just a quick side story..My dd when potty training start grew very anxious of the potty, which in turned grew to being anxious about the tub. She was afraid of it...deathly shaking fearful of the thing. She wouldn't flush, because she was afraid of being sucked in too, (the toilet can seem scarily powerful) and then you couldn't drain the tub while she was in it...she thought she could go down the drain there too. I had to sit her down and explain the tub and the toilet and how they worked and that there was no way she could go down. It was a very stressful time for both of us. It really could be that he's fearful of something and just doesn't know how to address it. I don't know if this helps, but just my experience with my kiddos.

[Tracy]

While my first 2 were fine, the only thing that excited the last child was that I allowed him to pee on every tree available to him! I know it probably sounds awful or inappropriate, but it honestly worked. Candy, stickers, m&ms, treats, and rewards of any type did NOT encourage him or appeal to him.

 

We've tried this, too. But my kids are all about following the rules--that combined with his desire not to get dirty--just doesn't work for him. I have even made dh play the shoot the Cheerios game. I mean, how could you not want to play that game? I even wish I could play it. But he would not have anything to do with it.

 

Thanks so much for your input. I think I'll give it a couple more days to see if there is any more progress. (Now that he is not afraid to sit on the potty, I am afraid to stop. I don't want to jump the hurdle again.)

[Lovin Learnin]

My ds had most of the same issues your son is dealing with (perfectionism, sensory, afraid of the potty). He would stand and urinate in the toilet but was terrified of sitting. At 3.5 I put him in pull-ups and told him he could not soil them. He spent 2 days crying and dancing (trying not to poop, lol) but I just kept telling him if he had to go he had to do it on the toilet. Once he couldn't stand it anymore he sat down in terror and went. He was ok after that, I guess because he didn't fall in and go down the drain.

 

At 18 this kid is fiercely independent and still has minor sensory issues. He attended public school but I think he would have done very well as a homeschooler, however, he would have wanted to learn everything on HIS terms. As his teacher that would have been hard for me to learn to deal with. He's a great kid though, extremely self motivated. It earned him a nice scholarship package for college.

[Tracy]

Well, it seems we have really screwed this up. He was making some progress and seemed really excited about being able to sit on the potty without crying. Now, though, he can't pee at all with out crying hysterically. He says he has to pee and goes to the potty and sits down but immediately starts crying hysterically. Then he gets up, pulls up his pants and realizes he still has to pee, and we start all over again. I even gave him permission to pee in his pull-ups, but that made him cry, too. We have been doing this for an hour. And he had a nap just previous, so I know he really does have to pee.

 

I do have a call in to the OT--waiting to hear back.

 

Off to buy diapers. . .

 

Thanks for all your help and insight.