Phonics Road or McRuffy for LA?? - Grade 2

[BrettW]

Hi all. I'm a long time lurker - first time poster!!

 

I'm looking for a strong LA program for my upcoming 2nd grader, age 7. I didn't use an LA program for him for 1st grade...I just sort of patched together Write Source 1, MCP B, WWE 1 and FLL1. He does fine with these, but to me it all seemed somewhat disjointed. He's a fairly good (if somewhat reluctant) reader. He can read small chapter books like the Jigsaw Jones series, for example. His doesn't have a strong tolerance for writing, but is okay with a sentence or two. I want the program to incorporate Writing, spelling, grammar, composition, reading, and phonics.

 

I have a 9 yo dd who used McRuffy for grades 2 and 3 LA. I was planning to use it for ds, too. But now I'm not so sure. McRuffy is more her style than his. She likes writing and the cute/funny stories appealed to her. (We skipped the creative writing component of McRuffy and supplemented with Writing Tales.) I think all the worksheets would be too much writing for him. But I like that it's comprehensive (except for the writing). I could supplement for him with WWE 2, I suppose. I also like that I already own McRuffy :).

 

BUT...yesterday I came across some reviews for Phonics Road and now it's got me thinking. It's really pricey, but everyone says it's "sooo worth the money". It's all in one. The website says to start in Level 1 (at a mere $215 :glare:) But Level 1 seems to be relearning letters and sounds and blends! Yikes! I'd feel like we're moving backwards unless it progresses quickly. The emphasis of the program seems to be on spelling. Does anyone have experience with PR that could give me some advice??? (It says that all ages should start at level 1.) If I do PR, would I drop WWE/FLL?

 

Any advice is appreciated.

Brett

[gardenmom5]

I'm looking for a strong LA program for my upcoming 2nd grader, age 7. I didn't use an LA program for him for 1st grade...I just sort of patched together Write Source 1, MCP B, WWE 1 and FLL1. I want the program to incorporate Writing, spelling, grammar, composition, reading, and phonics.

 

I have a 9 yo dd who used McRuffy for grades 2 and 3 LA. I was planning to use it for ds, too.

 

BUT...yesterday I came across some reviews for Phonics Road and now it's got me thinking. It's really pricey, but everyone says it's "sooo worth the money". It's all in one. The website says to start in Level 1 (at a mere $215 :glare:) But Level 1 seems to be relearning letters and sounds and blends! Yikes! I'd feel like we're moving backwards unless it progresses quickly. The emphasis of the program seems to be on spelling. Does anyone have experience with PR that could give me some advice??? (It says that all ages should start at level 1.) If I do PR, would I drop WWE/FLL?

 

 

I would suggest looking up phonics road posts by johnandtinagilbert - she's a wealth of information as she's used many of the most popular programs out there with her older children before coming across phonics road. she's also happy to answer any questions about it.

 

Yes, you would not need WWE/FLL. many reading programs are just that - reading, not spelling. Mrs. Beers viewpoint is a child who can spell can read. children who understand phonics and phonegrams can read and understand unfamiliar words. (I know that to be the case with much older kids - if they could disect the word they could figure out its meaning).

 

level one really drills in the phonics and phonegrams, spelling, etc. and their usage rules. every level builds upon previous levels. I have read of a few kids doing AAS3 who skipped PR level 1, but those are the only ones I've read of it working with skipping ahead. for most kids, they can accelerate through it. there is no "sight" reading. it includes basic grammar, but grammar is more fully introduced in level 2.

 

I'm just starting it this year, I have it on hand now and have been looking through and watching the DVD's, and am very excited about it. My 1dd is a classics major, so it really appeals to us.

 

It occassionally will show up used. any discount is a help - but many users hang on to it even in future years. post a "want" in the buy/sell forum. the other advantage is you can sell it when you are finished for quite a tidy sum, and that seriously decreases your cost. iow - it doesn't have much depreciation in value.

Edited July 22, 2011 by gardenmom5

[johnandtinagilbert]

Hi, Brett. Let's start from the bottom of your post. If you go w/ PR, you won't need anything additional for language arts. You may enjoy the connectedness of the program, which grows more and more evident throughout the levels. It's been a wonder in our house. My blog has a TON of info. on PR that may help you with your decision.

 

From which method did he learn to read? Does he understand the 3 sounds of A; when to use ck versus k, etc any spelling rules? Depending on your answer to these questions, I can rec. using Level 1 or not. His dislike for writing may also encourage me to suggest level 1, but let's see what your answers are :)

 

I currently use PR for 4 dc :) and have gone through some of it with my older dc too (b/c I discovered it when they were much older). Let me know.

 

In my opinion...it is worth every.penny.

[Forget-Me-Not]

PR is all-in-one LA. I actually bought it last year, based on all the raves about it here, and then ended up re-selling it. My reasons: My kids are very advanced in some aspects of LA, and about average in others, so it didn't fit well. She insists that you start with Level 1 because Level 2 builds on it and there are things in L1 that she doesn't review in L2. And the other (completely petty) reason: the lady who narrates the DVDs drove me CRAZY and I didn't think I could stand to watch/listen to her all year (told you, it was petty).

 

Some people really love it, others not so much. There is a user group for people who use PR and you can find lots of info by searching in the threads.

 

Also, a BIG caveat: If you order it from Rainbow Resource, you cannot return it. You may already know that, because their policy is that they do not allow electronic media returns, but I didn't realize that when I bought it and then I was not so happy when I couldn't return a $200 program that I hadn't used. Luckily I was able to sell it here on the FST forum.

Edited July 23, 2011 by LemonPie

[BrettW]

Thank you so much for your replies!

 

He learned to read mainly through HOP and Zoo Phonics when we was 4 and 5. He can read the word "back" with no problem, for example, but if asked to write it, he would write "bak". He can read "cat" (short A), hate (long A) and call (is that call schwa??) But if I ask him to write the word "cake" (which he can read), he might write "kak" or "kake" or "cak".

He would be confused and ask for help. He would also write "bal" i/o "ball".

 

He doesn't know much about sentence structure. He knows sentences start with a capital letter, end with a puncuation mark (although he still omits them, sometimes.) He knows what about nouns, pronouns and verbs b/c of WWE 1.

 

Does it sound like he would be a good fit for Level 1, if we go the PR way?

I didn't know that they have a return policy! That's good to know. I'd hate to spend over $200 and have it not be a good fit!

 

Brett

[HayleyKC]

Hi Brett-

 

I'll be starting PR3 this fall with my daughter. In our situation, she went through 1st and 2nd grade in a public charter online academy and so we used whatever their LA program was. They placed my daughter a year ahead (skipped kindergarten) So she was very advanced in this area. However despite that, when I started homeschooling with our own curriculum last fall (after reading WTM last summer), I followed the recommendation and started her in PR1. I did this even though she was 7 and reading at a 5th grade level, a natural speller, and somehow grammar has come quite naturally as well. We basically just accelerated her through PR 1 and 2 in 1 year. So we simply did 2 weeks worth of plans each week all year with a few breaks. That worked well for us. I will say even though she's a natural and much of the PR1 was material she already was comfortable with, she (we actually) still learned a ton! And it wasn't boring for her. There were enough new concepts that she learned a lot and had fun with it. Also, I noticed the program starts slow but moves fast so you'll be surprised how much is covered by the end of year 1 and big time by the end of year 2. In retrospect, I'm glad we did it because I don't thank many other LA programs cover the concepts as well and as thoroughly as PR does and so there would have been missing links if we skipped anything. And year 2 would be overwhelming if it wasn't building on the skills and work style introduced in y1.

 

Also, you don't need anything else for LA if you use this program. Though it seems mostly focused on spelling, it's not. The best way I can think to describe it is that Mrs. Beers simply uses spelling as the main medium and building block to teach everything else; phonics, spelling, reading, handwriting, grammar, vocabulary, literature analysis and beyond. Something I've heard many do is accelerate part of the time, kind of a hybrid. So on weeks where the flow seems easy and you can keep going, move through more than a week. But on days when the load is heavy, move at normal pace. Then perhaps she will get through year 1 and part of year 2. If you happen to go year round you could probably finish year 2 by the following fall. Or if not, just simply finish up year 2 the following year and keep moving.

 

I hope that made sense. And I hope it helps you in your decision! :-)

 

oh and btw, you can buy pr1 for $200 w/ no shipping from rainbow resource!

[mamamoon]

:bigear:

[lamolina]

I am interested in PR...it sounds very appealing! I am going to be starting to homeschool my 3 kids in March. At that point they will have finished half a school year of K, 2, and 5th grade. Would you recommend PR for all of them, or would the 5th grader be past this program and would need something else? He is an excellent reader and speller, but doesn't enjoy writing very much.

thanks!!

[BrettW]

Lamolina, I also have a 4th/5th grader (9) and would be interested if i could use PR1 with her, too. She's strong in LA, although writing is not her strength. She just starting IEW SWI-A. But she could probably use the spelling review.

 

Anyway, I've been reading a bunch of threads about PR and the WTM philosophy and am still unsure if, for my 2nd grader, it makes sense to jump on the PR (at a cost of $200 per level) or continue with WWE/FLL/SWO combo that we started in grade 1.:confused1: Any thoughts???

 

Brett

[mrsbushman]

I was also very interested in PR, but the price was my hesitation as well. On the other hand, I REALLY wanted a comprehensive LA program. I ended up getting a 5th edition copy of Writing Road to Reading (which I first checked out for free from the library). In my opinion, this is essentially the same program but without someone explaining it to you via DVD. If you are more of a self-starter, I would recommend WRTR. Check it out and see what you think!

[johnandtinagilbert]

Thank you so much for your replies!

 

He learned to read mainly through HOP and Zoo Phonics when we was 4 and 5. He can read the word "back" with no problem, for example, but if asked to write it, he would write "bak". He can read "cat" (short A), hate (long A) and call (is that call schwa??) But if I ask him to write the word "cake" (which he can read), he might write "kak" or "kake" or "cak".

He would be confused and ask for help. He would also write "bal" i/o "ball".

 

He doesn't know much about sentence structure. He knows sentences start with a capital letter, end with a puncuation mark (although he still omits them, sometimes.) He knows what about nouns, pronouns and verbs b/c of WWE 1.

 

Does it sound like he would be a good fit for Level 1, if we go the PR way?

I didn't know that they have a return policy! That's good to know. I'd hate to spend over $200 and have it not be a good fit!

 

Brett

Def. start in PR1. The philosophy will teach the whys behind each of the rules he is currently unable to apply. The phoneme cards come not only with the sounds, but also with the spelling rules that are applicable. It will be a great fit. Level 1 will also work on creating original sentences, their structure, and the very beginning blocks of grammar.

The building block/medium of spelling explanation above is right on. While you see lots and lots of spelling in the program, the purpose is to give them the phonetic skills they need to spell, read and write at the same time. If you can spell it, you can sound it out (and vice versa); if you can sound it out, you can read it. Put those words you can spell together and you can write about it. You'll use spelling words in grammar dictation (eventually) and initially they can do copywork from the sentences they create, getting that writing in. The best thing is, because of the AIO aspect, it is extremely efficient, which is wonderful for boys who don't love to write (I have on of those for sure!)

 

I am interested in PR...it sounds very appealing! I am going to be starting to homeschool my 3 kids in March. At that point they will have finished half a school year of K, 2, and 5th grade. Would you recommend PR for all of them, or would the 5th grader be past this program and would need something else? He is an excellent reader and speller, but doesn't enjoy writing very much.

thanks!!

I'd rec. Write Shop for the 5th grader if he's an excellent speller...or pick up in PR3 directly. It reviews the spelling words, but starts a magnificent word study, preparing for Latin :) It also really gets moving in writing. Either way, if you have PR1, watch it first and you can use the hints, clues, and encouragements you learn from level 1 in your schooling with your 5h grader. Remember, if you use PR3, you'll have all you need for language arts.

 

Lamolina, I also have a 4th/5th grader (9) and would be interested if i could use PR1 with her, too. She's strong in LA, although writing is not her strength. She just starting IEW SWI-A. But she could probably use the spelling review.

 

Anyway, I've been reading a bunch of threads about PR and the WTM philosophy and am still unsure if, for my 2nd grader, it makes sense to jump on the PR (at a cost of $200 per level) or continue with WWE/FLL/SWO combo that we started in grade 1.:confused1: Any thoughts???

 

Brett

I have a natural speller (rising 6th grader) and b/c of the wonderful progression of writing in PR, and the connectedness of it all, I started her in level 1. She was 9 at the time. It was worth it. Since PR is intended to start in 1st grade, I'd say a 2nd grader is def. not too late to start, especially if you can accelerate through level 1 (post on my blog how we did it and many posts here...check the social group).

In your op you mentioned disjointed. I know exactly what you mean. 100% on spelling tests only to misspell the same word in writing. IMHO, it makes sense. Particularly if you are going to buy it for the younger dc. You won't need to buy the student notebook for level 1 for the acceleration. It's easy enough to use regular paper. You will have a completed model in the teacher's manual (Foreman's Guide) and an uncompleted on in the student materials (Apprentice) for reference.

 

I was also very interested in PR, but the price was my hesitation as well. On the other hand, I REALLY wanted a comprehensive LA program. I ended up getting a 5th edition copy of Writing Road to Reading (which I first checked out for free from the library). In my opinion, this is essentially the same program but without someone explaining it to you via DVD. If you are more of a self-starter, I would recommend WRTR. Check it out and see what you think!

They are very close cousins. The main difference is teacher planning. PR does the lesson planning for you, down to the day. You take notes on particulars from the DVD, then you pull out the predesigned plans, where there is space for your notes (I prefer to put it on notebook paper sometimes), then you go. PR is def. more grab and go and I have found watching the DVDs made more sense to me than thumbing through WRTR. Additionally, as the program moves forward, the writing is laid out wonderfully. Very IEW meets WTM, imho.

[lamolina]

How does Write Shop compare to PR? OR is it part of PR?

 

So, if I went with Phonics Road, I would presumably start Level 1 with my K and 2nd grader together? And then decide between PR3 or Write Shop for the 5th?

 

Any input on this system compared with MCT or IEW, those are the other 2 that seem interesting to me. Or to FLL/AAS/WWE, which seems to be a very commonly used one on here!

 

thanks!!

[johnandtinagilbert]

How does Write Shop compare to PR? OR is it part of PR?

 

So, if I went with Phonics Road, I would presumably start Level 1 with my K and 2nd grader together? And then decide between PR3 or Write Shop for the 5th?

 

Any input on this system compared with MCT or IEW, those are the other 2 that seem interesting to me. Or to FLL/AAS/WWE, which seems to be a very commonly used one on here!

 

thanks!!

Write Shop is not a part of PR, but a very nice "after" PR for those who use all 4 PR levels. There is now an elementary level WS that is wonderful. It has lots of grammar mixed in with the writing, but no spelling.

 

Yes, you can start them together, however it is likely that your 2nd grader will be able to move a little faster than the Ker. That's no problem, as level 1 will take about 15-20 min. for the 2nd grader (see "A Day in the Life.." from my blog). Additionally, the more I teach PR, the more efficient I am with the followers (the ones who get my teaching in round 2).

 

The writing portions of PR are very similar to IEW in the methods used for instruction, as they are both classical programs.

 

So far as the FLL/AAS/WWE combo, I think PR teaches the same skills, but b/c it's AIO, you will flush out the redundancy of using 3 different programs. What I also love about PR is b/c it's AIO, there is a connectiveness that I never had from using multiple resources. My dc understand Language Arts as a whole, whereas the first lot saw spelling AND grammar AND writing AND literature and and and. PR does approach dictation in a more Charlotte Mason way (encourages smaller chunks, not whole paragraphs) than I understand WWE approaches (the large paragraphs). AAS leans more word family than PR. PR will give a few examples of one rule, but will apply more than one rule to a day's work. Both have built in review.

 

I also find PR to be a little more exciting than FLL (of course, that is personal preference).

 

Finally, PR will bring in the word study in level 3, so you won't need to add a Latin or vocabulary program...it's built right in! I have found PR to simplify my life!