Aludlam Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Ok, We are into our 2nd official year of Horizons (4th grade, Horizons 3 lesson 20). We did Horizons 2 in third grade. We also do MUS. We are very close to going into the Delta book (have done all levels of MUS). These two math programs together work for us, so I have no plans to change that. She simply loves both of them. We have REALLY struggled with math. The combination of these 2 programs have just worked so well for us. She has finally found a love for math. Anyway, I'm really wanting to move her along this year. A lot of things have clicked for her (light bulb moments). When I look through Horizons 3, there are lots and lots of things that she would breeze through, with no new instruction at all. (She has a GREAT grasp of multiplication. Division was one of her light bulb moments.) But, then there are things I see that she will need instruction and practice. How can I move her rapidly, surely, methodically, and with spiral mastery (:))? I have been giving her 2 pages per day with only a few of the things that are review (addition, subtraction, etc) and all of the things that I think she needs review/practice on since we have been off for 2 months. Is this wise? I need advice from some been there and done that. Someone who knows the system better than I do. I know that one of the strengths of Horizons is the review, but sometimes I feel like I'm holding her back, other times pushing too hard. We need a balance. Someone has to have a "no fail" plan for this ... don't you??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llindseymomoffour Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 :bigear: I would like to know as well. I was looking through Math 3 last night to start planning for my 3rd grader and alot of it looks like stuff he already knows so far. I was worried that he might become bored. I believe I am just going to have to "pick" from the pages and cross some things out that he already is good at and let him just work on the new stuff and things he needs reviewed on from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It has worked well for me in the past to double up on lessons and cut out half of sections that I considered solely review of a concept my child knew well. (If, however, there were mistakes in that half section, I would expect the other half completed as well. I might forgive a single silly mistake here or there, but more than that and all of the problems had to be finished.) I have one very math-savvy kid who was able to fly through Horizons that way and do very well. He went from H6 (and a few supplements that year including some of the Key to Algebra books) to Algebra (Dolciani) and then Geometry (Jacobs) with As, so he had a very strong handle on things. I have another who struggles with math (she's done HK-4 now). Even with her, we often do two lessons a day, though I cut out fewer problems for her. She just needs all of the practice. (When you're doubling up programs, that's probably less necessary.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I have doubled up lessons in the past if the child was starting the program and already knew much of the information. However, I would advise caution on skipping things like the drills as mentioned in the TM. I have found that there were areas I thought were mastered by my math-savy son, but in actuality he needed drill to review. This can be especially true for basic addition and subtraction math facts even though the child has moved on to multiplication and division. So once in a while at least, go through the flash cards just to make sure there are not gaps. I have heard more than once parents complaining that their 5th/6th grade children are having trouble at higher level math because they didn't have the math facts down cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 We did not have a good experience with Horizons, and I would not recommend sticking with it: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/05/01/horizons-math/ Here's how I teach math to my 6 year old instead: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/math/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 When we got to sections I felt he had a good grasp of, I had him do "first and last" in that section. If he got both correct, great. If he missed something we'd do more in that section. Worked fine for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahm99 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 We use Horizons as our main program K-2, and then as an add-on for 3-6. We have always, almost systemically, done 2 lessons a day. I do not believe, that leaving out any problems is a good idea! If it so easy, great, have them do more, faster! Skipping problems is a recipe for trouble further down the road, imo... (the same goes for Saxon, btw, which has a very similar approach). I want my kids to do LOTS of the same (in math!) and I want it to become very easy for them. Actually, at the arithmetic-level, I want them to work without having to even think about the mechanics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 We did not have a good experience with Horizons, and I would not recommend sticking with it: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/05/01/horizons-math/ Here's how I teach math to my 6 year old instead: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/math/ I agree with what you say about Horizons. It can be very focused on learning procedures without understanding. And, honestly, I don't think your experience would have been very different even with the Teacher's Guide. I think Horizons can be great for kids who are conceptual, mathematical thinkers who can make the connections without it having spelled out to them, and there are success stories I've read about here and know of IRL. My dd breezed through Horizons but when she entered ps, it became clear she was lacking conceptual understanding. At the same time, I don't know what I would have done differently. Horizons was really easy for us to use and we had some stressful life situations and it fit the bill for the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catholicmommy Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 We use Horizons as our main program K-2, and then as an add-on for 3-6. We have always, almost systemically, done 2 lessons a day. I do not believe, that leaving out any problems is a good idea! If it so easy, great, have them do more, faster! Skipping problems is a recipe for trouble further down the road, imo... (the same goes for Saxon, btw, which has a very similar approach). I want my kids to do LOTS of the same (in math!) and I want it to become very easy for them. Actually, at the arithmetic-level, I want them to work without having to even think about the mechanics... We have used horizons from k-5. For k-3 I usually made them do every question, but grade 4+ the pages are longer, and I will often cross out a few here and there. By Xmas we usually pick up Life of Fred and as long as they do a lesson of that, I only make them do a handful of the horizons page, going orally over any new teaching material. It does get tedious after awhile, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. It's a skill I want them to learn by practicing. On days when we are sick or out, I will pick back up again and double up on a lesson so we don't ge behind. When we double a lesson this is what I do: -orally go over the new teaching material on each page -require them to complete the problem sets that directly relate to the new material -cross off half of the rest of each page. The review questions are grouped into sections for each type of problem, and i'llonly make them do half on each page... Sometimes less than half if it's a super busy day. Their real progress can be shown on the tests (every 10 lessons), so if they are starting to have a hard time with those then you know to slow down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I agree with what you say about Horizons. It can be very focused on learning procedures without understanding. And, honestly, I don't think your experience would have been very different even with the Teacher's Guide. I think Horizons can be great for kids who are conceptual, mathematical thinkers who can make the connections without it having spelled out to them, and there are success stories I've read about here and know of IRL. My dd breezed through Horizons but when she entered ps, it became clear she was lacking conceptual understanding. At the same time, I don't know what I would have done differently. Horizons was really easy for us to use and we had some stressful life situations and it fit the bill for the time. Very interesting comment. I've always wondered if my experience would have been much different with the teacher's guide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 A couple of methods: 1, like what you are doing--assign all of the section that teaches a new concept, skip any sections that are doubling work that she's doing in MUS, do as much or as little of each review section as you think she needs. 2, At the beginning of the book, I usually have my dd take the tests. The tests generally cover the material up through workbook pages ending in 7. (Ending in 8 on up is new concepts that will be on the following test--so, work on pages 8-17 will be on test 20, work on pages 18-27 will be on test 30, and so on). If my dd gets an A on the test, she can skip those pages and go on to the next test. Generally we skip about 27 pages this way (Just enough to make it easier to finish out the book for us). I don't skip more because I want some review in there & don't want to go too fast & then hit hard stuff suddenly. HTH some! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aludlam Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 I want you all to know how much I appreciate the time that you have taken to help me and mine. After reading all the comments, praying, weighing pros and cons, reading, and praying some more ... I've come up with what I think will work for us. Sometimes, I get caught up in "check marking boxes" and I forget my own advice about this all being a marathon. So, in a nutshell here is what we are going to do. MUS (main program) finish gamma then on to delta. Horizons 3 - Lessons 1-40, 2 pages per day selected problems only. Lessons 41-160 one page per day (with the option to accelerated as I see fit -- if she already shows mastery). Then move into Horizons 4 before the end of the year with probably the same game plan for the first 40 or so lessons. Daily Word Problems (we need lots of practice) grades 3 and 4, 2 "days" per day. We just found Xtramath and will be using it for math facts and speed drills. How about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Very interesting comment. I've always wondered if my experience would have been much different with the teacher's guide! I guess for me I always took it for granted that I had to *teach* conceptually. Horizons was what kept us on track with daily work, reminded me what to teach each day, but I was (and am) still the teacher. I suppose I should point out that it's not a hand-holding program for parent-teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think it's a great plan to use one as your main program, and fit in the other around it as you have time, interest, and need. Hope you have a great year! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I guess for me I always took it for granted that I had to *teach* conceptually. Horizons was what kept us on track with daily work, reminded me what to teach each day, but I was (and am) still the teacher. I suppose I should point out that it's not a hand-holding program for parent-teachers. You make excellent points about Horizons. It is not a hand-holding program, though it may seem that way on a superficial level because of the Teacher's Guide. I had some limited experience teaching with Singapore and other programs so I tried to explain things conceptually, but practice with conceptually thinking was not built into the exercises in the workbook and for me and dd, that was what was needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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