Mom2OregonBoys Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 My son (6th grader this fall) is interested in participating in a math competition of some sort. I've looked at websites for both MATHCOUNTS and Math Olympiads--both seem to be active in my state. Can anybody demystify the world of math competition for me? What are the primary differences between MATHCOUNTS and Math Olympiads, and which would you recommend for a first-time participant? Would you recommend that my son compete as an individual or should we try to assemble a team? I'd greatly appreciate your opinions and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Actually they work pretty well together, if you're up for combining them.... Math Olympiad is five exams, one per month starting in November. Each exam has five questions and about 25-30 minutes (can't remember now) to complete. There are books of past problems - they're not easy, and no calculators! And there are two levels - elementary (4th-6th) and middle (7th-8th). If I remember correctly, you have to register as a homeschool group, not as a family. You get the exams about a week ahead of the date they are to be given, and your team has to take them as a group on that day (unless there is a dire need to change it that one time -- day off of school or field trip kind of thing, not a "Tuesdays are inconvenient" kind of thing). Elementary exams are given on Tuesdays, and middle exams are given on Wednesdays. The Math Olympiad Contest Problems books are excellent preparation. The registration fee is $99 for a team of up to 35 kids. If you do well, you get an iron-on patch at the end of the year, and if you do really well you get a little silver or gold pin (each corresponds to a different percentile...) Each team gets a little trophy too, to go to their highest scorer. I think there might be something more for perfect scores, too. MathCounts is an in-person event, rather more intense than Math Olympiad. Last I checked they were not enrolling new homeschooled teams (that is, teams that comprise more than one homeschool together), although they have not announced the policy for this year. You enroll as a school (your own homeschool) and unless you have four 6th-8th graders in your own homeschool, you'll most likely compete as individuals. The school competition takes place in January (for a homeschool this is pretty much just a practice run... for a larger school it's probably how they choose their top four for the team), chapter competitions are in February, state in March and nationals are in early May. We're in a really uber-competitive chapter in our state (the kids who win our chapter more often than not end up at nationals), so we've never made it to state, despite having some really fabulous, well-prepared kids on our team. Other chapters we'd have been a shoo-in..... It's worth it to know what you're up against. The Chapter competition is an all-day thing. The kids sit for three exams (Sprint is a speed round, no calculators; Target is fewer, more involved questions, and calculators are allowed; Team is like Target but shorter time and the four kids divide up the questions and collaborate), and then depending on the state there may or may not be a Countdown round (gameshow style), and if there is one it may or may not be part of the official score. It's fun, but it's intense. For some kids it's overwhelming. Everything is timed, and they intentionally give less time than one would normally need - they don't intend to have a whole lot of perfect scores. I think our chapter had four, out of a couple hundred kids, and that was unusual. MathCounts registration for a team of four is $90, or for an individual is $25. They are VERY PARTICULAR about grade level. You can not start before sixth grade, and once you've started you have three years of eligibility, period. I would generally not recommend starting early except in truly extreme circumstances... the competition is already stiff enough without an age difference, and on the other end I would be very hesitant to claim a lower grade level than age indicates -- they take this stuff very seriously. There have been a couple other posts about MathCounts, although it has been a while.... I'll tag this one and that should bring up the others too. Let me know if you have more questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2OregonBoys Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Holy smokes, Mathcounts sounds really intense for one homeschooler to compete by himself. It doesn't sound like participating as an individual is ideal--so I guess for the teamwork portions, he just would sit out? I was hoping to form a team of four if we're planning on Mathcounts. I wonder why there are freezes on how many homeschool teams can register and if this is true for my state. Perhaps Math Olympiad is more realistic for a "school of one." Do your kids participate in both? How do you prepare them? My son is doing Thinkwell Algebra I currently, but we'll be switching to AoPS in September. I'm planning on the number theory book with others to follow. Is this enough preparation? Thank you for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 My oldest participated in Mathcounts as an individual. Not being on a team was not a big deal at all. My son was the only homeschooler at the chapter event of 200+ kids (all the rest were on teams.) My son competed in the Countdown round (I think that is what it is called) against the other teams. It was fun for him because many of the spectators were cheering him on. Also, everyone competes as an individual at the State level. He did not make it to the National level, so I don't know whether they compete as a team or individual at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Holy smokes, Mathcounts sounds really intense for one homeschooler to compete by himself. It doesn't sound like participating as an individual is ideal--so I guess for the teamwork portions, he just would sit out? I was hoping to form a team of four if we're planning on Mathcounts. I wonder why there are freezes on how many homeschool teams can register and if this is true for my state. Perhaps Math Olympiad is more realistic for a "school of one." Do your kids participate in both? How do you prepare them? My son is doing Thinkwell Algebra I currently, but we'll be switching to AoPS in September. I'm planning on the number theory book with others to follow. Is this enough preparation? Thank you for your help. In some chapters an individual would be fine... in ours there's almost no hope of getting anywhere near moving up to state (you'd have to be one of those four perfect scores!) The freeze on MathCounts homeschool teams is nation-wide, but they haven't announced how it will go this year. I sent an email to our chapter coordinator asking what the current policy is and haven't heard back yet. Their problem was not actually with homeschoolers but with non-homeschoolers taking advantage of the loopholes (and the lack of oversight) they could get through by pretending to be homeschoolers and forming "super teams".... I wasn't happy with the way it was handled, but I'm hopeful that they'll come around with a better plan this year. If we have to participate as individuals we will. If you participate as an individual, you do sit out of the team round (or in our chapter at least they let the kids do the test "for fun", but they're not scored). AoPS is great preparation... Number Theory and Counting & Probability are excellent, and Geometry too. They also sell a book called Competition Math for Middle School, which was written by the coach of one of the teams that wins our chapter every single year... I wouldn't use it as a first pass through the material - the instruction is pretty thin - but the problems are excellent practice. My team this year is using that book and six years of past MathCounts practice materials. Each year they release a book of practice sets, and then after the competition season they release the school, chapter, and state tests. Both MathCounts and MOEMS have some difficulties for individual homeschoolers... MOEMS only accepts homeschool registrations from homeschool groups, not individual families. I think if I were starting from scratch, preparing for competitions, I'd do some portion of this: Math Olympiad Contest Problems books - when we used these, I re-ordered the problems into ten topical sets. The index lists them by topic so this isn't too difficult... MathCounts practice sets (first what you can get for free, and then consider buying some older sets) American Math Competition (AMC) - AMC 8 in particular - you can get a CD of old exams from amc.maa.org for about $25 AoPS - Probem Solving Volume 1, Counting & Probability, Number Theory, and Geometry. They have an online class for Mathcounts prep... we've never done that ourselves, but I've heard great things about it. Competition Math for Middle School for review If you want a lower-key kind of entre into competitions, the AMC exams are nice. That was DS's first stab at competitive math, and again the preparation overlaps quite a bit. This year my math team is going to do Competition Math for Middle School and old MathCounts sets, meeting weekly from August to February to discuss any problems they have with the "homework" and to introduce new topics or extend old ones, or to do larger projects. Any kid who wants extra work will get old AMCs (starting with 8s and moving to 10s and 12s as necessary), and we'll be taking the AMC 8 in November and the 10 in February. In addition, DS is doing the AoPS Problem Solving book (at least Volume 1, possibly starting Volume 2) as his main math work, and since he did Geometry with a different curriculum we might add in some of the AoPS Geometry as appropriate. Honestly, after all that we still aren't going to win the chapter, and that's fine. I'd love to place somewhere in the top ten, but there's virtually no hope of moving on to state. The real benefit isn't in the awards at all, but in the fact that the kids have spent the time immersed in problem solving. That will serve them well both in their future math study and in whatever they do when they grow up. :) There is some "material" benefit in the high school level AMC tests in that the most competitive colleges are interested in your scores if you're applying for a math-heavy major... but at the middle school level it's really all about what you learn along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2OregonBoys Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 There's no chance I would find such invaluable information on my own. Thanks for sharing your experience and advice. I think if I were starting from scratch, preparing for competitions, I'd do some portion of this: Math Olympiad Contest Problems books - when we used these, I re-ordered the problems into ten topical sets. The index lists them by topic so this isn't too difficult... MathCounts practice sets (first what you can get for free, and then consider buying some older sets) American Math Competition (AMC) - AMC 8 in particular - you can get a CD of old exams from amc.maa.org for about $25 AoPS - Probem Solving Volume 1, Counting & Probability, Number Theory, and Geometry. They have an online class for Mathcounts prep... we've never done that ourselves, but I've heard great things about it. Competition Math for Middle School for review If you want a lower-key kind of entre into competitions, the AMC exams are nice. That was DS's first stab at competitive math, and again the preparation overlaps quite a bit. I'll order the contest preparation materials you mentioned--the AMC option looks interesting. It will take me a few days to digest all the information you provided! Thank you, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2OregonBoys Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 It was fun for him because many of the spectators were cheering him on. I loved this! The only homeschooler in a field of 200+ teams?? Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My son did mathcounts this past year by himself and it was a fantastic experience. He got to be around other kids that love math and had a lot of fun watching the countdown round. Our chapter is also very competitive. He did great as a sixth grader and hopes to make it to state next year. I agree with the resources above for preparation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Erica, I love your description of countdown as "gameshow style." That's perfect! You mentioned the AoPS Mathcounts prep class, and I can confirm that it's excellent. They offer, I think, two levels, so students can choose what they're comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 It looks like Mathcounts is going to allow new homeschool teams this year with some restrictions, although the new rules haven't been officially announced yet. My husband coaches a homeschool mathcounts team and it is a wonderful experience for the kids. You wouldn't believe how much fun they have doing math together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 It looks like Mathcounts is going to allow new homeschool teams this year with some restrictions, although the new rules haven't been officially announced yet. My husband coaches a homeschool mathcounts team and it is a wonderful experience for the kids. You wouldn't believe how much fun they have doing math together! Same here -- we put together a homeschool MathCounts team two years ago and my son LOVED the camaraderie and the "buzz" of competition. The other boys he invited didn't think they liked math, but joined b/c they were excited by the idea of a contest :D Well, they ended up deciding they like math after all! It made a total change in their attitude toward math (much to their parents' delight, of course!). The problems in MathCounts are often multi-step and require the use of several techniques and bits of knowledge. One boy who was fuzzy on his basic math was pretty lost, but for the others it cemented their grasp of concepts. Plus they had a ball! The problems are interesting, and working together on the team round is fun. This past year my son was (sadly) too old to compete, but he was assistant coach for the homeschool team. The boys *loved* getting together to practice math -- imagine that! Plus they made time to play and eat, of course :001_smile: MOEMS and the AMC tests are great, too. I got a lot of information from these boards -- try searching the high-school forum also. Kathy in Richmond and others had posted very helpful information when I was getting it all sorted out in my head. A local homeschool mom and I ran MOEMS math olympiads -- at one point we ran simultaneous grade 4-6 and grade 7-8 tests. The kids enjoyed getting together every month for this. I offered the AMC tests myself, but found it easier to have my son take them at a local school, which has monster math kids ... when my son qualified for AIME (the next level in the AMC tests) at least 6 middle-school kids had also qualified, so the AIME was held at a local middle school (in addition to the high school, also home to National MathCounts top-10 finishers :tongue_smilie:). It helped him concentrate, taking the test among such focused kids! ~Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2OregonBoys Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 Same here -- we put together a homeschool MathCounts team two years ago and my son LOVED the camaraderie and the "buzz" of competition. Though my son will compete as an individual if need be, we'd rather he compete with a team. As you said, Laura, it's really much more than math. The camaraderie and excitement of the competition are so important. Thanks to everyone who replied for the information and inspiration. I will look into building a team in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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