No parent override on math placement

[Pippen]

Our district has just gone to a new method of placing students in 7th math for grades 7-9, using a combination of computerized MAPS test scores, grades, and teacher recommendations. Based on this they placed my daughter in algebra for 7th grade, meaning they're not only advancing her into honors, she'll totally be skipping 7th grade math.

 

This track leads to calculus as a junior and she is the least "mathy" of my kids. I was doing remedial math facts (including adding and subtracting) and had to reteach division when I had her home for 5th grade. She doesn't belong on this track and when I requested they move her to down to pre-algebra I was told they aren't accepting parent overrides.

 

I am livid. Always before we've had to sign off on math placement.

 

Has anyone dealt with this successfully? Is replacing parent input with computer scores becoming the norm?

[MBM]

I can't imagine that legally you can't move her down. I haven't been in that exact situation, but I would begin inquiring if the school has a legal right to advance her like that without your consent.

 

Do the students not have choices in choosing their high school courses? Could she eventually change the sequence beginning in ninth grade?

[Caroline]

That doesn't sound right. I assume you have talked with the principal. Look for the county math coordinator on your county's website. She/he would probably be listed under the curriculum and instruction department. Send an email inquiring about the policy.

[melmichigan]

I could see them arguing about moving a child up, but down? :confused:

[Pippen]

I could see them arguing about moving a child up, but down? :confused:

 

Exactly.

 

Students have always been able to choose their high school courses provided they have met the prequisite courses and grades. But now I've remembered seeing that placement into freshmen English was also made by the results of these MAPS test scores. This testing all seems to center around the middle school in our district so far.

 

http://www.nwea.org/sites/www.nwea.org/files/resources/ParentToolkit.pdf

 

I was told they'd be doing the testing again in fall and could revisit placement based on those results and achievement in the class so far. It's not September I'm worried about because the beginning of Algebra isn't going to be too tough--it's April...and the next year...and the next...

 

As far as I can tell the only way off this track after that point will be performing so poorly that a class needs to be repeated. Even if a student were to shift from the honors track to regular they'd still be advanced a grade. And there will be no going back to pick up what's missed in pre-Algebra. Don't get me wrong--I think this is a perfect solution for some very mathy kids who need the accelerated track, but I am certain mine would be more solid by remaining on a slower track.

 

She's a good student but fine arts are her thing--there is absolutely no need for her to be on a track leading to calculus as a junior.

[matilda]

I would push the issue with the school again before September. Who have you been talking to? You could talk to a teacher, and express your concerns and see if you can get any advice. It is always good to have a teacher on your side. Also, talk to the principal or vice-principal. Write real snail-mail letters -sometimes that makes it seem more official. And this is completely sexist, but if the dad will talk to the school, he may have better results. (Although I can't tell from your post if you are a dad or mom . . .)

[AnitaMcC]

Our district has just gone to a new method of placing students in 7th math for grades 7-9, using a combination of computerized MAPS test scores, grades, and teacher recommendations. Based on this they placed my daughter in algebra for 7th grade, meaning they're not only advancing her into honors, she'll totally be skipping 7th grade math.

 

This track leads to calculus as a junior and she is the least "mathy" of my kids. I was doing remedial math facts (including adding and subtracting) and had to reteach division when I had her home for 5th grade. She doesn't belong on this track and when I requested they move her to down to pre-algebra I was told they aren't accepting parent overrides.

 

I am livid. Always before we've had to sign off on math placement.

 

Has anyone dealt with this successfully? Is replacing parent input with computer scores becoming the norm?

 

Um, l don't think they can legally ignore your wishes.

 

It is one thing for a parent going in demanding their child to skip grades or go into advanced placement without qualifying. But to insist on advancing child without parental approval is another thing.

 

I have refused more than once in allowing one or the other of my children be placed into a class. I have refused to allow my youngest to be put in a specific teacher class for Kindergarten. I have refused to allow my nephew to take "required" industrial technology class in middle school. The kid was a menace to himself and others... no way was he mature/capable of working power tools or anything dangerous at that time. I refused to allow my nephew to take drivers ed during the school year (it is required course). He was failing 2 of his core courses (refusal to do homework) and so I figured he needed to take a study hall instead. He took drivers ed over the summer.

 

I did not tell the school what class to put my child in... I just told them what class they were not going to put my child in.

 

But maybe you could just allow the placement for now. If your Dd doesn't do well, she will be dropped from the advanced course. And if she does well and rise to the challenge then she will benefit from the advanced placement.

 

In our schools, the students in honors, accelerated, or AP classes must maintain a grade of B in the course. They get midterm grades every 6 weeks or so. If a student has lower than a B, they are put on probation. If they do not pull their grade up to a B by the next 6 week period then they are removed from the class and placed into the regular track class.

[BabyBre]

She's a good student but fine arts are her thing--there is absolutely no need for her to be on a track leading to calculus as a junior.

 

 

Good luck trying to convince them of that. My ds faced intimidation and threats of not graduating because he refused to turn in a copy of a college application to his hs counselor. He wants to enter the Coast Guard, not apply to college right now and his counselor seemed to take that personally. The push for "college readiness" is growing very strong now that the federal government has taken over Fannie and Freddie. Our district's aim seems to be to pat themselves on the back and talk about the awards they receive for their percentage of graduates going on to college, nevermind that the quality of graduates going on to college is extremely poor.

 

If you've already tried a firm conversation with the principle, you can try going up the chain of command but you'll likely fail as every administrator above him will be more and more versed in brushing you off. I guess the next step is to do some research yourself into the district's policy and your state law. Talk to some education advocates in your area (there are usually groups formed particularly around math) and maybe an attorney if you know one.

 

You know your dd best. Stand strong and be her advocate.

[Caroline]

Our district has just gone to a new method of placing students in 7th math for grades 7-9, using a combination of computerized MAPS test scores, grades, and teacher recommendations. Based on this they placed my daughter in algebra for 7th grade, meaning they're not only advancing her into honors, she'll totally be skipping 7th grade math.

 

This track leads to calculus as a junior and she is the least "mathy" of my kids. I was doing remedial math facts (including adding and subtracting) and had to reteach division when I had her home for 5th grade. She doesn't belong on this track and when I requested they move her to down to pre-algebra I was told they aren't accepting parent overrides.

 

I am livid. Always before we've had to sign off on math placement.

 

Has anyone dealt with this successfully? Is replacing parent input with computer scores becoming the norm?

 

Out of curiosity, to whom have you spoken?

[melmichigan]

You may also request to view the text for the coming year, what some schools consider algebra I isn't in others. ;) If after viewing it your feeling remain then I would continue up the chain and advocate for your child, why should she be forced to fail if math isn't her thing?

[Murmer]

1st have you talked to your daughter about it? How does she feel about being placed in such a "mathy" course? If she is up to it and really wants to try it then maybe she will surprise you and her or else she can retake it in 8th grade. (I was not a mathy kid but got upper math tracked in 8th grade and really surprised myself with how well I did)

If she does not really want to be tracked at such a high level then push push push push push until you can get her into the class below this one. Don't stop until you get the answer you want, squeaky wheel and all.

I wonder if part of the problem is they basically split the kids into full classes so the lowest kids in the algebra class are really more ready for pre-algebra but since they needed a full algebra class they tracked them that way, then filled the pre-algebra class(es) and then the regular math class(es) so moving a child could mean that a pre-algebra kid gets knocked out of pre-algebra into regular which would upset that child's parent.

[Caroline]

1st have you talked to your daughter about it? How does she feel about being placed in such a "mathy" course? If she is up to it and really wants to try it then maybe she will surprise you and her or else she can retake it in 8th grade. (I was not a mathy kid but got upper math tracked in 8th grade and really surprised myself with how well I did)

If she does not really want to be tracked at such a high level then push push push push push until you can get her into the class below this one. Don't stop until you get the answer you want, squeaky wheel and all.

I wonder if part of the problem is they basically split the kids into full classes so the lowest kids in the algebra class are really more ready for pre-algebra but since they needed a full algebra class they tracked them that way, then filled the pre-algebra class(es) and then the regular math class(es) so moving a child could mean that a pre-algebra kid gets knocked out of pre-algebra into regular which would upset that child's parent.

 

I doubt it is about filling classes at the middle school level. There is too much transiency. Lots of kids will show up the first day of school that have not registered. You cannot schedule a school based on having every class completely full. (I work with the scheduler at my school.)

[Pippen]

Out of curiosity, to whom have you spoken?

 

I'd had an email exchange with the principal when I posted this, and since I've called to talk more about it with him. He understood where I was coming from--both about the placement and cutting the parent/student input out of the equation--and is checking with the curriculum directors, the level at which these guidelines were generated. Also have talked to some math teachers and found they all aren't on board with this change as well as other recent changes made in the math sequence.

 

This is the first year they're using this system for placement and other parents I've mentioned it to are shocked. In the past we've always signed off on student schedules, but this year the only students who brought home a signature sheet were those were making a change in adding/dropping a music class. Yup, you heard that right. If a student drops chorus in favor of study hall the parent is informed and has to approve the course change. But they place your child in a math track and inform you about it later.

 

This class is definitely algebra--there's never been enough students to fill a middle school class so they take it at the high school and then usually go on to honors geometry at the high school for 8th grade.

 

I have little confidence in the school's ability to make this call. I questioned math placement for her two older siblings at this same level and went with the school's recommendations, and both times have regretted it.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Pippen

[Pippen]

An update--

 

The principal took my request to the higher ups and I got a call yesterday saying they were going to honor my request.

 

Honestly, given the initial exchange I didn't think it was going to happen and I'd be moving on to the school board. I'm glad to know at least there's room for some common sense to override computer scores.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and advice.

[Caroline]

An update--

 

The principal took my request to the higher ups and I got a call yesterday saying they were going to honor my request.

 

Honestly, given the initial exchange I didn't think it was going to happen and I'd be moving on to the school board. I'm glad to know at least there's room for some common sense to override computer scores.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and advice.

 

Good. I am glad it worked out.

[BabyBre]

An update--

 

The principal took my request to the higher ups and I got a call yesterday saying they were going to honor my request.

 

Honestly, given the initial exchange I didn't think it was going to happen and I'd be moving on to the school board. I'm glad to know at least there's room for some common sense to override computer scores.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and advice.

 

 

:hurray: Good for you! Let them know that made you happy (and quiet, for the time being)! ;)

[mchel210]

Good to hear!! It does pay to be an ADVOCATING parent!!! I dont think enough parents understand the system enough to get involved or demand changes. The schools can make it so difficult. It is sad at times to see how the school makes decisions...that even teachers that work day in and day out with these students would not agree with!

 

I know in our high school...if they put your child on the honors track...they wont pull them out even if they are failing from week 1! It is terrible. They will let them fail the entire year before allowing them to drop down.