Chelli Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I know this is probably a no-brainer kind of question, but how do you know if your dc is academically gifted in some area? Some background: I was in the gifted and talented program in ps (what a joke!) and took advanced placement classes all through high school, so I understand what being gifted means (basically you are bored out of your mind 99% of the time in ps:glare:). Fast forward to my oldest dd...she didn't talk until around 16 months, but when she did start talking it was in complete sentences using a large amount of vocabulary. I've never talked down to my children and have purposefully used an advanced vocabulary with them. My dd7 has always picked up new vocabulary easily and used it contextually from the beginning. For example, just the other day she comes up to me at church and says, "Mom, little sister is antagonizing me." The jaw of the lady I was talking to just dropped. My own mother (a ps teacher of 30+ years) has commented repeatedly about how "gifted" my dd is with language and uses words that even her 5th graders in ps wouldn't know. However, I wonder if this is just a case of: "Of course, my baby is gifted...she's the smartest little girl EVER!" I worry that I (and maybe even my mom) are looking at things through the lenses of love, but then I worry that maybe she is really gifted and I'm holding her back by keeping her on grade level in language arts. I don't necessarily have a desire to push my kids to finish school at 16 or anything. So all of that to ask: Just how do you know they are gifted? Do you just bump them up a grade level and see how it goes? Do you have them take some official test? TIA ETA: If I should post this on the accelerated learner board, then let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkid Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Interested to know too... Our public school district will not advance a student to the gifted program unless they test above in ALL areas of learning (language arts, math, etc.) and has a good behavior record...frustrating since usually really smart kids are good in one subject more than another and many end up being bored in class so they start talking too much or resorting to other ways to get attention. One size does not fit all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Interested to know too... Our public school district will not advance a student to the gifted program unless they test above in ALL areas of learning (language arts, math, etc.) and has a good behavior record...frustrating since usually really smart kids are good in one subject more than another and many end up being bored in class so they start talking too much or resorting to other ways to get attention. One size does not fit all. I NEVER would have made it into a gifted program if my good behavior had depended on it! From Kindergarten-6th grade, I was in trouble every day at school. I got sent to the principal's office twice in 6th grade, had my desk moved behind the teacher's in Kindergarten, had my own place on the sidewalk to stand every recess in elementary. The only grade where I was a pretty good kid was 2nd. My 2nd grade teacher had me help the other kids with their work (I was like her assistant). I barely got in trouble at all that year because she directed my abilities in a positive way! I've never forgotten that :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 To know for sure you would need to have a professional administer an IQ test and see if the kid scores above 130. It is important to note that not all gifted children are high achievers, so academic performance is not necessarily a good measure. I don't see any reason to test, unless you need the score for admission into certain programs. As far as homeschooling goes, a parent can just select material appropriate for the child and disregard any grade level designation. It is likely that an 11 y/o who is succeeding in algebra is gifted - but it is not really necessary to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Do take a look at Dr. Deborah Ruf's "Levels of Giftedness". There's debate over the specifics but it's a good place to start. You can administer the Cognitive Abilities Test (CogAT) at home through Bob Jones and other test providers. It has a relatively low ceiling, however, so it's best for identifying students who may be gifted rather than determining exactly how gifted they are. There are various talent searches that will administer above-grade achievement tests like the EXPLORE, SAT, or ACT as a way of having a much higher ceiling. Your DD is a bit on the young side for those now (most test 4th or 5th graders & up, though C-MITES does test 3rd graders). You could also pay for an individual IQ test, but that would run you $500-$2000+ depending on where you go for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Both my older daughter and I have been identified as gifted, and I don't think that in a homeschooling context it makes any sense to bother with the term. I understand in public schools, that educators have needed a way to catch kids who aren't thriving in regular classrooms; so identifications like 'remedial' or 'gifted' are created. And publishers of tests happily design tests to sift out the 'gifted' and the 'remedial' kids. Cut scores are established at the 97th percentile or 90th percentile or 10th percentile or whatever... And that kind of makes sense for an industrial sort of system where educators do not really know their students strengths and weaknesses. The problem I have is that it's all artificial and there's no reason to bother with it outside of the public educational system. The wonderful part of homeschooling is that we are meeting our children's needs wherever they are. It doesn't matter a bit how they compare with other children. People often use the phrase 'gifted' as if it's a black and white non-scalar sort of diagnosis, not a comparison with a norm. If you are meeting your children's educational needs and know where they are and what their strengths and weaknesses are, there is no need to have them take a test to compare them with other children. The only reason to do so is if they will receive services in a public school or if they want to attend a summer program that requires it. Edited June 11, 2011 by Momling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Having specific numbers can help provide reassurance for acceleration. Even in a HS setting, the parent may encounter naysayers that curriculum X is "too much" for a child of age Y. An IQ or talent search test can help the parent feel more confident taking the plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NittanyJen Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 In public schools, "gifted" is measured differently in different states. In PA, there is an IQ cut-off based on the WISC-R, and other measures. In Delaware, they go by the top 8% scores on the MAP test in the beginning of the school year in any given class of kids, and in any given year, you can be in or out. In Minnesota, they use the Nagleari Non-Verbal Assessment Test . . . and I'm not sure if these standards are even always applied statewide, or can vary from district to district or even school to school in all cases. In homeschooling, we have even more latitude of course :). If your kid needs more challenge, throw in some good stuff from the Critical Thinking Company, or give your child her schedules one week at a time and let her know it's okay if she wants to work ahead in her school work if she wants to and see if she takes the bait, or buy some books for next year and leave them lying around and see if she gets nosy :). I would be tempted to do more enrichment than acceleration in most subjects, since in most cases (history, math, science, writing, literature) the subjects are more broad than we can ever fully explore anyway, so "accelerating" the child is kind of a fictitious construct in the homeschool setting. Just let them pick a special project to pursue and run with it. They can work through The Number Devil or Penrose in math, or work on a probability or statistics unit along with their usual math program, or read more in depth about a history topic of interest, or start researching a more unusual science topic in more detail, alongside your basic science unit, and become an expert in it-- maybe through 4-H or something. I grew up under the "AT" or "Academically Talented" label in PA as did my husband, and we went along with it when the other kids said we were in "Animal Training." We both felt then and now that kids need enrichment more than labels-- it's more interesting :). Even if you ultimately do decide to accelerate some subjects (such as grammar or math or science) remember, it doesn't necessarily mean having to graduate early-- you can drop grammar after a point, but you will never run out of things to read, science to learn, math to branch into, history to learn, etc, so it's not as if you hit a point and say, "Well, "I've done it all! I guess I graduated!" I can't really speak to it, as my kids are still little, but I imagine graduation will be more about emotional, physical, and social maturity than running out of things to study, regardless of academic achievement. You cannot possibly run out of things to study and learn! Just food for thought! Jen http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khall Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 To know for sure you would need to have a professional administer an IQ test and see if the kid scores above 130.It is important to note that not all gifted children are high achievers, so academic performance is not necessarily a good measure. :iagree: In PS, the kids identified as "gifted" are the academic high achievers, which are not necessarily the kids with high IQs. I would be tempted to do more enrichment than acceleration in most subjects, since in most cases (history, math, science, writing, literature) the subjects are more broad than we can ever fully explore anyway, so "accelerating" the child is kind of a fictitious construct in the homeschool setting. Just let them pick a special project to pursue and run with it. They can work through The Number Devil or Penrose in math, or work on a probability or statistics unit along with their usual math program, or read more in depth about a history topic of interest, or start researching a more unusual science topic in more detail, alongside your basic science unit, and become an expert in it-- maybe through 4-H or something. Even if you ultimately do decide to accelerate some subjects (such as grammar or math or science) remember, it doesn't necessarily mean having to graduate early-- you can drop grammar after a point, but you will never run out of things to read, science to learn, math to branch into, history to learn, etc, so it's not as if you hit a point and say, "Well, "I've done it all! I guess I graduated!" I can't really speak to it, as my kids are still little, but I imagine graduation will be more about emotional, physical, and social maturity than running out of things to study, regardless of academic achievement. You cannot possibly run out of things to study and learn! love this, great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 This is just my opinion, but I think if your child is truly gifted, you will know. you will not have to ask. There are a lot of children like my son who are smart and can easily learn what is taught to them. He can learn and fly through what is given to him, and many will tell me that he is gifted. However, I disagree. I believe he is smart, but not gifted. Gifted is a whole 'nother level that can't be denied when you see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkid Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 There are a lot of children like my son who are smart and can easily learn what is taught to them. He can learn and fly through what is given to him, and many will tell me that he is gifted. However, I disagree. I believe he is smart, but not gifted. I agree. I think some people define "smart" and "gifted" as "over-achiever." I think my dd is smart (making connections to lots of different things and figuring out how they work), but not necessarily an over-achiever (going over and above to do more than is asked and asking to do harder things). I think she just needs more enrichment. It's hard to find things, though, that are enriching that aren't time intensive and can be done independently so you can spend more time with the younger child or maybe even get some housework done. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) Having specific numbers can help provide reassurance for acceleration. Even in a HS setting, the parent may encounter naysayers that curriculum X is "too much" for a child of age Y. An IQ or talent search test can help the parent feel more confident taking the plunge. :iagree: I had my son tested right before he turned 4. I wanted to know just what I was dealing with. I knew he was "ahead," but I didn't know if he was ahead enough that he would require special schooling. Even though we don't need his IQ score and achievement testing for HSing, it's reassuring that what I am seeing as gifted, is in fact gifted, and it's not my "mommy goggles." I was of the thought that everyone thinks their kid is a genius, so I was probably just biased. As far as the "how do you know," The Ruf levels are a good place to start, or you can google "signs of giftedness in children." FWIW, I now prefer the term, "asynchronous learner," over the word "gifted." :D Gifted is such a loaded word, and means something different to everyone. ETA: Apparently I like to use "quotes" a lot.:lol: Edited June 11, 2011 by someonestolemyname Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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