Switching fron TT to Saxon...

[praisefor3]

Ds13 just finished 7th grade using Teaching Textbooks 7. He did fine. He doesn't like math but does ok. If we were to switch to Saxon for 8th grade...what would be the level for him?

[wapiti]

Certainly you'd want to use the Saxon placement tests (I believe they'd be on the Saxon website)

[Quiver0f10]

Certainly you'd want to use the Saxon placement tests (I believe they'd be on the Saxon website)

 

 

I highly recommend this.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: Here is a link to the test; btw, the test isn't long.

 

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Placement

[praisefor3]

We took the placement test although I did it slightly different. It was actually 100 questions long if you start at the beginning which is what you are supposed to do if you are changing curriculums. So instead of making ds complete all the problems we did it orally and he told me how to solve the problem instead of making him work out all the answers long hand. If he quickly could answer the question then I moved on. He fell right on the border between 8/7 and pre-algebra. (Yes, I know he would have gotten some wrong just because of careless mistakes but that is a completely different habit we are working on.)

 

I planned to move him on to pre-algebra UNTIL I read on Saxon's own site that you can skip pre-algebra if they have the concepts strong and also from looking at the table of contents of pre-algebra.

 

So, although I wouldn't say he is strong on the concepts yet, we have agreed that if he completes LOF fractions and LOF decimals this summer then he can go ahead and start algebra which is what he really wants to do. He had a rough early start in math which slowed him down but, although that seemed to instill a belief in him that he doesn't like math, he has had no problem learning concepts in the last few years.

[Tammyla]

We took the placement test although I did it slightly different. It was actually 100 questions long if you start at the beginning which is what you are supposed to do if you are changing curriculums. So instead of making ds complete all the problems we did it orally and he told me how to solve the problem instead of making him work out all the answers long hand. If he quickly could answer the question then I moved on. He fell right on the border between 8/7 and pre-algebra. (Yes, I know he would have gotten some wrong just because of careless mistakes but that is a completely different habit we are working on.)

 

I planned to move him on to pre-algebra UNTIL I read on Saxon's own site that you can skip pre-algebra if they have the concepts strong and also from looking at the table of contents of pre-algebra.

 

So, although I wouldn't say he is strong on the concepts yet, we have agreed that if he completes LOF fractions and LOF decimals this summer then he can go ahead and start algebra which is what he really wants to do. He had a rough early start in math which slowed him down but, although that seemed to instill a belief in him that he doesn't like math, he has had no problem learning concepts in the last few years.

 

I'm a little confused. Are you thinking of starting him in Algebra 1/2 or Algebra 1?

[Quiver0f10]

We took the placement test although I did it slightly different. It was actually 100 questions long if you start at the beginning which is what you are supposed to do if you are changing curriculums. So instead of making ds complete all the problems we did it orally and he told me how to solve the problem instead of making him work out all the answers long hand. If he quickly could answer the question then I moved on. He fell right on the border between 8/7 and pre-algebra. (Yes, I know he would have gotten some wrong just because of careless mistakes but that is a completely different habit we are working on.)

 

I planned to move him on to pre-algebra UNTIL I read on Saxon's own site that you can skip pre-algebra if they have the concepts strong and also from looking at the table of contents of pre-algebra.

 

So, although I wouldn't say he is strong on the concepts yet, we have agreed that if he completes LOF fractions and LOF decimals this summer then he can go ahead and start algebra which is what he really wants to do. He had a rough early start in math which slowed him down but, although that seemed to instill a belief in him that he doesn't like math, he has had no problem learning concepts in the last few years.

 

 

I have used both TT and Saxon and based on his results I do not recommend going into Alg 1. I would do the Alg 1/2 . Just my 2 cents.

[praisefor3]

Thanks, Quiver. Here's why I was considering going on to Alg 1: "With Algebra 1/2, children can deepen their understanding of pre-algebra topics such as fractions, decimals, percents, mixed numbers, signed numbers, order of operations, evaluation of algebraic expressions, and solutions for linear equations in one unknown." The only weaknesses I see for him in that list are fractions and decimals. So if he completes LOF this summer, it seems like Alg 1/2 will be too redundant.

 

And then on the DIVE CD's it says: "Upon completion of Algebra 1, some parents opt to have their children take a separate geometry course, but Dr. Shorman believes this is unnecessary and encourages parents to have their children do Algebra 1 in 8th grade, Algebra 2 in 9th grade, followed by 3 semesters of Advanced Math and 3 semesters of Calculus."

 

I do get the whole Saxon geometry approach as DD20 used Saxon and she followed the schedule listed above. Frankly, I really doubt that ds will complete calculus but...while I don't want to push him beyond what he is capable, I also don't want to waste a year of math if we don't need Algebra 1/2 after LOF.

 

So...that is my thinking. Not sure if it is correct though! :)

[Ellie]

It is generally not a good idea to start off with Algebra 1.

 

And IMHO, your ds needs to do the whole placement test, exactly as it is, and do the writing. The way you did it will not give you an accurate placement.

[Quiver0f10]

Thanks, Quiver. Here's why I was considering going on to Alg 1: "With Algebra 1/2, children can deepen their understanding of pre-algebra topics such as fractions, decimals, percents, mixed numbers, signed numbers, order of operations, evaluation of algebraic expressions, and solutions for linear equations in one unknown." The only weaknesses I see for him in that list are fractions and decimals. So if he completes LOF this summer, it seems like Alg 1/2 will be too redundant.

 

And then on the DIVE CD's it says: "Upon completion of Algebra 1, some parents opt to have their children take a separate geometry course, but Dr. Shorman believes this is unnecessary and encourages parents to have their children do Algebra 1 in 8th grade, Algebra 2 in 9th grade, followed by 3 semesters of Advanced Math and 3 semesters of Calculus."

 

I do get the whole Saxon geometry approach as DD20 used Saxon and she followed the schedule listed above. Frankly, I really doubt that ds will complete calculus but...while I don't want to push him beyond what he is capable, I also don't want to waste a year of math if we don't need Algebra 1/2 after LOF.

 

So...that is my thinking. Not sure if it is correct though! :)

 

I do understand. Maybe have him do LOF over the summer and then in the fall give him the placement test as Ellie suggests below and see where he places.

 

It is generally not a good idea to start off with Algebra 1.

 

And IMHO, your ds needs to do the whole placement test, exactly as it is, and do the writing. The way you did it will not give you an accurate placement.

 

As far as Saxon scheduling my 18 yo did TT Alg 1 in 8th, redid Alg I with Saxon in 9th, Alg II in 10th, Adv. math in 11th and Calc I and II at the CC in 12th. So starting Alg I in 9th doesn't necessarily mean a wasted year.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Quiver0f10

[wapiti]

The only weaknesses I see for him in that list are fractions and decimals. So if he completes LOF this summer, it seems like Alg 1/2 will be too redundant.

 

IMO, fractions and decimals are hugely important topics, and personally I would not get anywhere near an algebra course until fractions and decimals are nailed down air-tight. Completely. They are the basis for other concepts.

 

Whether LOF is enough to increase understanding of those I really don't know (I have the books but none of my kids have used them for math - they just enjoy reading the story). Even with LOF, I'd be printing out lots of extra worksheets of straight computation, for practice and to be sure the facility is there.

 

Other options for working on weaknesses in those areas include the Key to Fractions and Key to Decimals series (they are 4 booklets each), as well as MM topic books. Then there's Lial's BCM, which might spend time going over those areas in detail; some people use it as a prealgebra course, particularly for older kids who need to work on weak areas in arithmetic (just from what I've read on the boards).

[gracyomalley]

My oldest has done TT 7 and LoF this year, and I definitely think that that's enough fractions and decimals if your child really understands the LoF. One of the issues with Saxon will be (as I'm sure you know having used it with your older) all the writing, compared to TT and LoF...but I would not say that you need to go to the beginning of the placement test - If your child has done well with TT (and You need to have checked up on that work frequently, IMHO) then they should truely be comfortable with the 4 basic operations, and decimals, maybe fractions too - not too much on negative integers there, though....and remember all the reveiw built into saxon. Another option is borrow a saxon algebra 1/2 and zoom through it this summer - then know that he's really ready for Alegebra 1 in fall...if he's motivated to get there, he'll be willing to do the tests, and any lessons he needs over the summer...

 

Erin