Which Greek for us?

[pgr]

My initial plan was to start just Latin next year, and we’ve started listening to Song School Latin in the car. DD loves it, and begged for SS Greek as well… We ended up getting that and the Greek code cracker, which she’s really liked.

She’s asking to do both Latin and Greek next year – she loves languages, so I’m willing to give it a go. At this age, we’re not shooting for fluency, but more of a solid foundation (or introduction, depending on how it goes).

She already is a strong reader. Unlike with Latin, I have no Greek background whatsoever (other than some scientific/medical terms from my work). The goal would be to gain familiarity with Greek roots that she may be able to use in the future in her reading/writing/etc. Also, a familiarity with modern/conversational Greek may be something we’d shoot for? At this point, I’m not necessarily looking for her to be able to read the New Testament or ancient works in the original language.

My confusion is with ancient vs common vs classical vs modern Greek, etc. Which should I be focusing on given our situation/goals? Any recommendations for a program? Elementary Greek seemed like a good one, though I don’t know if that’s the language (Koine?) that I should be looking at. :tongue_smilie:

Thoughts???

 

Thank you!

:)

[serendipitous journey]

:bigear:

[Zoo Keeper]

If you are looking for modern/conversational Greek, I'd try Rosetta Stone.

 

Most homeschooling Greek materials are written for studying Koine (NT) Greek, or classical (think Homer) Greek.

 

I'm not sure what to advise for word study, since my crew is doing Koine Greek with Elementary Greek (which I really like).

 

Not much help, but at least I'm bumping it up for you.

 

P. S. I know that Marie (she is 4evercanucks on this board) has Greek in her family background; she may be able to give more advice on modern Greek--you could pm her.

[Dawn E]

Most elementary materials will be in Koine. I'm not certain about SSG, but I assume this to be the case since their later program--Greek for Children--is Koine. Koine is the language of the New Testament. Many of these materials have the ambition of preparing the child to read the NT text in its original language. Greek gets more complicated the farther back you go--from Koine to Attic, from Attic to Ionic, or Homeric, Greek. Most colleges and universities begin with Attic; seminaries offer Koine. Attic is more complicated than Koine in grammar and some of the vocab will likely change, but even if the intent is to pursue Attic, or an older Greek, later on, the child will be well served with a foundation in Koine. Going from Koine to an older form of Greek is harder than vice-versa. However, with the bulk of elementary materials available in Koine, it makes sense to start the child here and work into Attic around middle or high school when more materials are available.

 

So, if you are interested in classical as opposed to modern Greek, I would suggest you look into EG. I have been pleased with it. Greek for Children is meant to be started at a later level, I think...perhaps 4th where EG can start in 3rd. I wouldn't start it earlier simply because children usually haven't developmentally (nothing to do with intellect) reached a point where they can process grammar before 3rd or 4th grade. These classical languages have a great deal of grammar to memorize and understand. Prior to that age you could use materials like SSG, Biblical Greek 4 Kids, Greek Alphabet Code Cracker and Hey, Andrew Level 1 which serve as good introductory materials.

[pgr]

Thank you for the replies, the suggestions, and the bumps! :)

 

 

Most elementary materials will be in Koine. I'm not certain about SSG, but I assume this to be the case since their later program--Greek for Children--is Koine. Koine is the language of the New Testament. Many of these materials have the ambition of preparing the child to read the NT text in its original language. Greek gets more complicated the farther back you go--from Koine to Attic, from Attic to Ionic, or Homeric, Greek. Most colleges and universities begin with Attic; seminaries offer Koine. Attic is more complicated than Koine in grammar and some of the vocab will likely change, but even if the intent is to pursue Attic, or an older Greek, later on, the child will be well served with a foundation in Koine. Going from Koine to an older form of Greek is harder than vice-versa. However, with the bulk of elementary materials available in Koine, it makes sense to start the child here and work into Attic around middle or high school when more materials are available.

 

So, if you are interested in classical as opposed to modern Greek, I would suggest you look into EG. I have been pleased with it. Greek for Children is meant to be started at a later level, I think...perhaps 4th where EG can start in 3rd. I wouldn't start it earlier simply because children usually haven't developmentally (nothing to do with intellect) reached a point where they can process grammar before 3rd or 4th grade. These classical languages have a great deal of grammar to memorize and understand. Prior to that age you could use materials like SSG, Biblical Greek 4 Kids, Greek Alphabet Code Cracker and Hey, Andrew Level 1 which serve as good introductory materials.

 

Thank you, Dawn, I found this especially helpful, as I was unclear on the specific differences between the different variations of Greek. It seems Koine would be a logical starting point regardless, and that would give her the option of going in either a modern or classical direction in the future? Or am I reading that wrong?

 

Also good to know that EG has a lot of grammar; I'll look at Hey, Andrew and Biblical Greek.

 

Thank you to everyone! :)

[mom2boys030507]

My boys are currently using Hey Andrew. They love it and it is their favorite thing to do for school. I started both of my boys after they were easily reading chapter books with good comprehension.

 

I am planning on switching my oldest over to Elementary Greek after he finishes Hey Andrew Level 3. Something is just not sitting right with me and I feel like EG will take care of it. I think I am looking for more instruction vs just doing what the page says.

[Dawn E]

 

It seems Koine would be a logical starting point regardless, and that would give her the option of going in either a modern or classical direction in the future? Or am I reading that wrong?

 

 

Definitely it will be a great starting point for pursuing Attic or Homeric in the future. I think learning the alphabet alone will be beneficial for any other Greek study. However, I think Rosetta Stone is a great option for modern Greek if that is your end goal. Classical languages will spend more time in grammar, reading and translation and not in pronunciation...and all those factors are going to be very different (from modern Greek) anyway. Rosetta Stone will provide a more immersion-like experience and focus on preparing for verbal communication in the language.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Dawn E
Clarity...hopefully :)

[kchara]

SSG has a track for Koine Greek and a track for Modern Greek, and you can do either.

[Jean in CA]

For young children, I recommend the Bluedorn materials. A Greek Hupogrammon and the Greek Alphabetarion. They teach the alphabet and pronunciation as well as memory of Bible passages in Greek.

 

These can be used with very young children, 4 and up.

 

I wouldn't jump into Elementary Greek earlier than 4th grade. Although some websites and reviews say it can be used with a 6 year old. You probably can move slowly through it, but I think it is a curriculum better suited for late elementary.

 

Hey, Andrew! Teach Me Some Greek! also sells very gentle, enjoyable curriculum for younger children. We started with their Greek alphabet song, and it was a real hit!

[fourcatmom]

So, I have a questions. I have talking with my girls about doing a language next year and was leaning towards Spanish because it seems like the value of using it in everyday life is good and the potential to use it is high.

 

My 10 yo dd loves everything Percy Jackson and when she saw me reading this thread she went all willy to learn Greek! :lol:

 

What is the advantage to learning Greek versus a language like Spanish for the first one? She is going into 5th grade and she is a motivated learner but I don't want to keep developing all these interest and directions over a "book". KWIM? Her Dad says she needs to get in "the real world" and learn Spanish?

 

Can someone help me out with this?

[Jean in CA]

What is the advantage to learning Greek versus a language like Spanish for the first one? She is going into 5th grade and she is a motivated learner but I don't want to keep developing all these interest and directions over a "book". KWIM? Her Dad says she needs to get in "the real world" and learn Spanish?

 

Can someone help me out with this?

 

 

If you learn one modern and one classical language... I'd pick Latin and Spanish. Latin is the foundation for many other languages.... and you won't need to learn a new alphabet.

 

Latin is also the basis of our English language and helps tremendously with grammar and vocabulary. Its rigor trains the mind.

 

If you're just going to learn one language, I would not choose Greek. It is even more complicated than Latin, requires learning of an entirely different alphabet... and if your goal is to read the New Testament with understanding... it requires years and years of study.

 

Having said that, we start with Latin, add Spanish, and aim for an introductory understanding of Koine Greek in the elementary years (just in case they want to pursue for formal studies in Greek later on, on their own).

[Amy Jo]

Personally I'd start with Spanish, then get her a fun Greek intro for her own use. Either let her do it on her own, or just work 15 min. a day on it - but every day. (Assuming you want ancient Greek, perhaps Greek Alphabet Code Cracker or Bluedorn's Greek Alphabet set. Then if she is still into Greek I'd get Elementary Greek. The second book in the Hey Andrew series should also be very independent - I think she's to old for the first one. If you want modern Greek perhaps check your library for some courses.)

[pgr]

Much clearer - thank you all so much!

[Paige]

If your DD is first grade, I would not do Greek for Children. It moves very fast with the grammar and vocabulary and assumes the student knows a lot of English formal grammar from the beginning. The Greek Code Cracker is really fun and kid friendly, and doesn't take much time at all. My DS loved it! We got Greek for Children to use after that and had to put it up for a while because it was too hard.

[fourcatmom]

Thank you for clarifying for me. I hope the original OP got her questions answered as well.

 

:lurk5:

[Guest]

I do agree with a lot of what I have read here, especially with Dawn's post. Just to clarify though that I do not know anything about Koine. Like Dawn said, I too have noticed that most elementary programs teach Koine. It was not too much of an issue but when I researched them I noticed that the sounds are being taught in an Anglicized way, which does not meet my goals for what I want to teach my boys. Some of the vocabulary also, consists of words that are no longer used.

 

The Greek language has evolved quite a bit over the years. While I have never heard of Koine, Ancient Greek is one form (we just call it Ancient Greek in Greece), there is also another that my father learned while in school which is also no longer being used and then there is Modern Greek which has also had some minor changes. I am sure there have probably been other stages over time but I have not studied the evolution of the Greek language :tongue_smilie: so I don't know. What I do know however is that the main ones are Modern Greek, currently taught in the schools, and Ancient Greek, taught at the high school level (or lyceum as we call it). Up to grade 11 in Greece you do not have electives. You take the standard 13 subjects. In the equivalent for what you call here in North American grade 12 we get to choose our direction and the courses are based on that. I chose a science direction :D and therefore did not have another year of Ancient Greek. Don't get me wrong, it is not that I disliked it! I just preferred focusing on what I was good at, not something that would not be useful to me in the long run. This was one of the reasons why I reevaluated my plan for my boys and decided that I want to focus on languages while they are young and give them time to focus on their electives when in high school. I know it really annoyed me having to do subjects that had nothing to do with my choices in high school. Anyway, I am rambling now.

 

Coming back to the topic and the reason why I went off on a bit of a tangent was to say that it all depends on what you want to do and the goals you have set for you kids. I do not feel like Koine would help your kids learn Ancient Greek in the future much. Like Dawn said, the further back you go the more difficult it gets. The only thing that Modern and Ancient Greek have for example is that many of the Modern Greek words share roots from the Ancient Greek. Agreeing with Dawn also that Ancient Greek has more complicated grammar and will add here that the vocabulary is almost like night and day :tongue_smilie:. I went though middle and high school in Greece and can tell you that Ancient Greek is not easy. Even after taking two years of it I would still have a difficult time reading a passage. I could read it of course because the sounds of the phonograms have remained the same all through but I would not understand quite a few of the words and would probably be able to decode to a certain degree being a native speaker (schooled in Greece) but it would not be easy for a child that is not. It would be like learning a new language. Same if a child took Modern Greek thinking that they can then move on to Ancient Greek.

 

One benefit I do see with Koine or other Anglicized Greek programs is that the kids can at least understand the roots from the Greek language that are used in the English language. You should be able to do that with a program like English from the Roots up too though. This is what I will be trying with my boys but I cannot recommend it since I have not used it. I will not be bothering with Ancient Greek personally, unless one of my boys really wants to learn it. For Greek my goal is for them to learn the language and speak fluent Modern Greek. I will be using Rosetta Stone and agreeing on this one with Zoo Keeper since from the demos I have tested, they use the proper pronunciations. They use native speakers but I don't know how much this would help with making the connections between Greek roots and their use in the English language. Our Rosetta Stone Greek Level 1 is on the way now and since I have not used it I cannot recommend it either but like Zoo Keeper said, it's a program to look at.

 

I will close by repeating that you need to decide what your goals are. I can also see the point of those that recommended Latin. Latin is a language that is most useful for later learning Spanish, which is a language that can be more useful in the US. Especially if you live in a State that it is used a lot. I will be adding Latin (for now we are playing a little with SSL) in grade 4, if all goes as planned, and am hoping to later add Rosetta Stone French (relevant for us Canadians) but we shall see ;).

Edited May 23, 2011 by Guest

[fourcatmom]

Personally I'd start with Spanish, then get her a fun Greek intro for her own use. Either let her do it on her own, or just work 15 min. a day on it - but every day. (Assuming you want ancient Greek, perhaps Greek Alphabet Code Cracker or Bluedorn's Greek Alphabet set. Then if she is still into Greek I'd get Elementary Greek. The second book in the Hey Andrew series should also be very independent - I think she's to old for the first one. If you want modern Greek perhaps check your library for some courses.)

 

I like this idea. I don't think she really into the long-term of speaking Greek. Do you have any recommendations on an Alphabet Code Cracker or a fun Greek Into. I think she would like that and I am going to purse RS for the Spanish for both of the girls. There are a lot of kids that speak Spanish were we live and it would be a useful language to know in any career.

[fourcatmom]

Looking for suggestions as to what program to use for 4th grade Spanish?

 

Also, has anyone ever incorporated two languages into their curriculum, one for each child. I was thinking of Latin for my 5th grader. I do not have experience with either language, so I am looking for some programs that are for beginners - including the parent!

 

Thanks

[fourcatmom]

Looking for suggestions as to what program to use for 4th grade Spanish?

 

Also, has anyone ever incorporated two languages into their curriculum, one for each child. I was thinking of Latin for my 5th grader. I do not have experience with either language, so I am looking for some programs that are for beginners - including the parent!

 

Thanks

:001_smile: