grace'smom Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Hey guys, We just did the second lesson of BFSU and DD had some trouble. The lesson is on solids, liquids and gases- pretty basic stuff. I took notes, reviewed them to myself, and figured it would be a piece of cake because Grace has already done this lesson many-a-time in different books, science curriculums, etc. Well, with BFSU it says to lead the child into finding certain answers through a socratic method of question and answer. For example, if they tell you something is a liquid they are supposed to tell you why they think that is so... Then you lead them to discover that temperature can change state of matter through asking the right questions. I'm not sure exactly what I did wrong, but the whole "how do you know that's a solid," etc. just seemed to confuse her. By the end of the lesson today she seemed to actually trust herself a bit less. She seemed unnerved by it all. Do you think it could be that I was asking her wrong? Or perhaps she is just a "classical" child as described by SWB and it's difficult to "lead or question" her to learn rather than allowing her to observe to learn? Maybe she got confused because she thought since I was asking her why she thought something it meant she was wrong? It was fun to see that it got her thinking, but I'm not sure it ended up being a positive experience for her. She came up with all kinds of theories that I had to disprove about what makes things solid, liquid or gas- for example: she swore that she could sweep water so water must be a solid. In fact you can SOMEWHAT sweep a small pool of water into a dustpan (we discovered today), so there was a lot of discussion about what makes water different from solids. We ended up with- if you can sink in it or swim in it then it's probably a liquid. If you can fill a pool with it and still walk across it then it's probably a solid. *Note I said "probably" because now I'm a little unsure of MYSELF too with an elementary concept, LOL! Maybe this is just what it looks like when they start to think? It seemed really off track, but maybe that's just what it looks like.... Do they really learn more this way? I definitely think we learned to question what we believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think this would be a really good question to ask on the BFSU yahoo group, if you haven't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think this would be a really good question to ask on the BFSU yahoo group, if you haven't already. :iagree: It works wonderfully with my dd but that's one reason I chose this curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacefully Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) . Edited November 20, 2012 by yllek sorry - typing while cooking :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grace'smom Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Well, I think it might just be my perception of it, because when she came in from playing outside tonight I asked her how she felt about the lesson and she said she liked it. She says she had fun and thought about things a different way. So- I'll try a few more lessons and see how it goes... I might modify it so that there's more observation prior to any discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twins05 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I have been using BFSU this year, and sometimes the discussions are difficult to get going. Sometimes I have to lead them pretty heavily to the correct concept, but sometimes the light bulb comes on in their heads earlier. As you mentioned, I think that doing "hands-on" stuff before the discussions is very helpful. Certainly, I'm no expert on socratic discussion, but I just wanted to encourage you. I have really enjoyed these discussions with my kids because I can see how their minds are working and because it's really rewarding to see them (occasionally) come up with the "right answer" after a question or two. Plus, these discussions help prepare me to do a better job of capturing "teachable moments" in everyday life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristenR Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I found that with out BFSU lessons I really need to do my fair share of "studying" before I present the lesson. And by studying I mean I read over the recommended books we picked up at the library. Occasionally I'll add some internet links or cool websites. But by far I learn a lot by asking questions and for experiences by folks here on the forum. I always get need additional activities to help teach the concept. We are only a few lessons in on our BFSU activities. We started the Air is A Substance lesson this week and I will eventually blog about our experiences with it. Feel free to check out my previous BFSU posts here if you would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I think this would be a really good question to ask on the BFSU yahoo group, if you haven't already. :iagree: Though Dr. Nebel has said that he will be off line until the end of the month. You do have to be careful when using the Socratic method not to express disappointment when they give the wrong answer. If they give the wrong answer, then you have to lead them through the "experiment" so that they see the answer on their own. You didn't share what activity you used, but I would start with water, ice and water vapor and make sure she knows that those are liquid, solid and gas, respectively. Then I would help her make a comparison--Is juice more like water, ice or water vapor? How is it like water? How is it not like ice or water vapor? I wouldn't move on to the more complex example of why sugar is a solid (and not a liquid) until she could get why juice and water are liquids. It is okay if she doesn't get it right away. Sometimes, it takes time for a concept to sink in. Do another activity the next week, and if she still doesn't get it then move on and come back to it in a few months. Just remember, it is important for her to have fun with this and to not focus on the fact that she has gotten something wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grace'smom Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 Thank you all so much for your tips and advice. I think I'll try to stick with it through the summer and make a decision about it after I'm more familiar with the method... In the meantime I'll keep checking the blog posts you have shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I am sure that there are posts in the Yahoo group about other interesting questions children have had (e.g. does being pourable mean it's a liquid? because sugar and sand can be poured). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Already Gone Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Agree about the Yahoo group. Also, although I may be wrong in this impression, I gather from the book that you won't necessarily be using the Socratic method every time or all the way to the end of a particular line of inquiry--sometimes the author specifically suggests that you'll have to step in and explain things or rule certain possibilities out, correct certain errors, etc. My sense from this (and again, I may be wrong, and please do correct me if I am) that it is less important to transmit particular lessons via this method as to introduce Socratic questioning as a habit. So often I'll ask my son a series of questions, but if he's headed down a totally wrong track and I'm at a loss as to how to lead him back, I'll say something like, "well, what about this possibility?"--after which we would discuss the pros and cons of that explanation and then test it out. In a way I suppose I am "giving him the answer," but inasmuch as we are doing it in the context of the Socratic method (and, hey, Socrates himself often "gave answers" in this way!) I still feel as if we're headed in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 And if in the end the child doesn't understand states of matter, then just play the solid-liquid-gas game and have a ball and not worry about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I have only yet done a couple of the lessons in BFSU so take what I say with a grain of salt. There have been times my youngest didn't seem to get it right away or I wasn't leading him in the right direction with my questioning. So then I just explained it and was more literal about my explanations. I want to lead him into thinking about it, but not make it a guessing game either. I try to frame it in a positive way. "Yes that might be one way to look at it, but what about this..." Then often times the light bulb comes on. I've done that before too. I don't give her the answers but I'll acknowledge her ideas as valid, explore if they would work in this situation (so she sees that won't quite work from some examples) and then ask a more guiding question next. Then *bing*! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelBee Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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