Which Iliad and Odyssey?

[Matryoshka]

We're finally at the Greeks. :) I thought I knew which retellings of the Iliad and Odyssey I'd use, but now that I've got them in hand, I'm second-guessing. I thought I'd ask here on the high school board as there'd be more people who'd BTDT.

 

I had been thinking that I'd use Sutcliff's retellings for the older girls (almost 13yo) and something else even shorter for my younger one (10 1/2yo). But now that I have them out of the library, they seem short, and have such nice pictures (I got the ones illustrated by Alan Lee), that I think my younger dd could handle them, and wondered if there weren't something else (perhaps that retained more details/episodes of the stories) that my older two could read.

 

For the Iliad, I have:

 

The Trojan War by Olivia Coolidge

The Iliad of Homer retold by Barbara Leonie Picard

 

For Odyssey:

 

The Odyssey of Homer by Barbara Leonie Picard

 

And then there are two that seem to have combined the two epics into one volume:

 

The Children's Homer by Padraic Colum

The Tale of Troy by Roger Lancelyn Green

 

Anyone have any opinions on which either retain the most of the original stories, or are most readable, or give the best sense of the overall story?

 

Right now I'm leaning toward Coolidge's Troy and Picard's Odyssey. Coolidge's seems to give a lot more time building context for the war and less on the war itself; Picard's is almost all about the war with very little preamble or even finish - Achilles doesn't even die till the epilogue.

 

Anyone else more familiar with an opinion? Is there another retelling I've missed? I have tried to line up TOC's, but everyone seems to start and end in completely different places, and give different titles even to similar episodes, so without actually reading all of these, I'm still not sure...

 

And one more question...

 

Has anyone listened to an audio translation of the original epics? If so, any recommendations as to which translation and which narrator?

[regentrude]

I had my 13 y/o just read the epics themselves, not a prose retelling (she was familiar with the story).

My son read the Coolidge version when he was 10; I would think it a bit young for a 13 y/o.

 

Picard's is almost all about the war with very little preamble or even finish - Achilles doesn't even die till the epilogue.

 

 

Achilles' death is not a part of the Iliad at all. (Nor is the Trojan horse)

 

Has anyone listened to an audio translation of the original epics? If so, any recommendations as to which translation and which narrator?

We read the Fitzgerald translation and liked it very much. It does not attempt to replicate the dactylic hexameters (which sound a bit odd in English), but is in verse and flows very nicely. Not the most purist choice, but a very enjoyable one.

(The audio version we listened to was in German, by Walter Jens)

 

For background, I can HIGHLY recommend Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures form the Teaching Company, for both epics.

[Lori D.]

Here are two past helpful threads on that topic:

 

Which translation of Homer?

Need helping choosing translations of The Iliad and Odyssey

 

 

The Rosemary Sutcliffe books are beautiful, and really do make it easy to keep track of who is who and what is going on, so, yes, use them with your younger student -- but also as a reference for the older ones, too. :) Regarding The Tale of Troy by Roger Lancelyn Green -- sigh... I wanted to like this, but his writing style is, well, deadly boring. Sucked ALL life out of the work -- and we're talking a story with lots of BATTLES in it, people! (Sidenote: whatever versions you decide on, once you've gone through them, DO go to the library and get Marcia Williams' "The Iliad and The Odyssey" -- hilarious! My DSs thoroughly enjoyed flipping through that as a fun "finale". Also, check out the wonderful 1997 TV mini-series "The Odyssey", starring Armand Assante and an international cast.

 

 

When DSs were 8th and 9th grades, we "went for it" and did the Fagles full translation for each of The Iliad and The Odyssey, and really enjoyed both. I personally think the Fitzgerald has more beautiful language, but the Fagles is very modern and immediate for younger folk.

 

While it's not the most helpful lit. guide, the Novel Unit guide for The Iliad has a very helpful section on which chapters to skip if that helps the student "stay with it." And I *highly* recommend the Garlic Press Publishers Discovering Literature guide for The Odyssey! Meaty, a great chapter summary and *discussion* questions (not just comprehension questions) for every chapter; lots of literary elements discussed; very interesting/engaging writing assignment ideas; additional activities and resources; lots of background info on author/times AND on FOUR different translations (including Fagles and Fitzgerald). Even if you don't go with a translation, just an adaptation -- DO check out this guide!! (See it at http://www.rainbowresource.com.)

 

 

One other option for your older student is the 1993 full prose retelling of The Odyssey by Samuel Butler, published as a Barnes & Noble Classic. Very accessible; helpful short summary of each chapter ("book") near the table of contents, along with a helpful list of the major "players" and their connections to one another. And each chapter ("book") has a brief overview summary of what will happen in the chapter so you can keep up. It's very possible there is a similar full prose retelling of The Iliad.

 

 

Finally, while you're doing Greeks right now, not the Roman Virgil, when you get to The Aeneid, check out the very nice prose retelling "The Aeneid for Boys and Girls" by Alfred Church. Yes, the title is enough to make your hurl, BUT... it was a great length, and very nice storytelling, and fits right with all 3 ages of your students. :)

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Lori D.
added info

[Matryoshka]

Thanks - very helpful info.

 

So....

 

It sounds like the Picard is actually closer to the original text in focusing almost exclusively on the battle... but I still kind of like the context some of the other retellings give, as to what led up to the war and what happened to some of the heroes (other than Odysseus). Are the lead-up stories, Achilles' death and the Trojan horse story just separate tales?

 

If the Coolidge is young for the 13yos - is the Sutcliff less young, though perhaps shorter?

 

I think I'll get at least one of the Fagles translations to listen to in the car (these do come from the oral tradition, so I don't feel too guilty :)...) Which of the retellings do you think the older kids would most enjoy to get them interested in listening to the whole thing?

 

I'm not sure that we'll have time to listen to both the full Iliad and Odyssey (we putzed along in history this year and really need to pick up the pace) - if I had to pick one, which would you recommend?

[Matryoshka]

For background, I can HIGHLY recommend Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures form the Teaching Company, for both epics.

 

My library has these on audio only - would that be fine, or does one need the video?

[Aquinas Academy]

My library has these on audio only - would that be fine, or does one need the video?

We used them on audio and thought they were great.

[regentrude]

My library has these on audio only - would that be fine, or does one need the video?

 

We used them on audio, too. (We much prefer audio, because that way we can listen in the car.) They were fantastic, and I think only once or twice was she showing a visual that we missed.

[Matryoshka]

We used them on audio, too. (We much prefer audio, because that way we can listen in the car.) They were fantastic, and I think only once or twice was she showing a visual that we missed.

 

Oh, man - if I try to listen to these and the epics on audio, I'll need to find more places to drive to! :tongue_smilie:

[Julie in MN]

Are the lead-up stories, Achilles' death and the Trojan horse story just separate tales?

 

A lot of the further story comes from the Aeneid. It's said that Caesar commissioned/forced Virgil to write the Aeneid as a history of Rome, highlighting Caesar's right to power. Aeneas is a character in the Iliad but really a minor role (a Trojan). Virgil has him go from Troy to supposedly found Rome, so it does tell about the Trojan horse at the end of the Trojan War. I don't think you'd find Achilles' death/heel in the Aeneid, though?

 

The Children's Homer included the Trojan Horse, plus the beginnings of the war. It also focuses more on the Odyssey than the Iliad. I love how it starts with Odysseus's wife and her incessant suitors, to highlight the humor in the story.

 

As far as the beginning of the Trojan War, I think you might read a short myth about the Golden Apple or other myths with Helen in them. I'm not sure much of the background story is really laid out by either Homer or Virgil. We read Bulfinch's Mythology with MFW, which gives the whole ugly stories (at least in our opinion) of endless myths from many sources. Or you could read some of the tamer children's versions.

 

Julie

Edited May 10, 2011 by Julie in MN

[In The Great White North]

If the Coolidge is young for the 13yos - is the Sutcliff less young, though perhaps shorter?

 

 

I would say so, even though it is a picture book.

 

Are you going to do the real thing in high school? If so, I would save the VanDiver tapes for then. They really relate to the real thing.

[jelbe5]

I like the retellings of the Iliad, Odyssey and Aneid by Alfred Church. You can find them at The Baldwin Project. You can listen to The Iliad for Boys and Girls through Librivox.

[Brigid in NC]

We loved Fagles. Go for the originals, not a retelling. Reading while listening to an audiobook makes the two epics much more accessible to younger readers. The audiobook for The Odyssey that is narrated by Ian McKellen is fabulous. ;)

Edited May 10, 2011 by Brigid in NC

[Josie]

My library has these on audio only - would that be fine, or does one need the video?

 

We have the DVD version and all she does is stand there and lecture. Save your money and get the audio.

[Julie in MN]

We have the DVD version and all she does is stand there and lecture. Save your money and get the audio.

 

She does just stand there and lecture.

 

But another consideration is whether seeing a real teacher helps your child pay attention, or whether having her look you in the eye helps you stay awake :)

 

Our library has these (sometimes by ILL), so you could try both versions.

 

Also, TTC has excellent sales around Christmas/New Years. I think I paid around $20 for DVD.

 

Julie