Roxy Roller Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Classical Conversations seems to recommend Latin's Not So Tough Books 3-6 in 7th and 8th Grades, then they move to Henle 1, I think. Is this a good progression? Would a 7th grader without any foreign language experience be able to do the Latin's Not So Tough Books starting at Book 3, or would I have to back her up to Book 1 or 2? I am planning on learning along with her, if it makes any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 yup, it's memorization :) lots of it. Now, to whether it's the best sequence... that's another story. I hear that latin for year after this... will be changed for CC. I personally think that "Latin's Not So Tough" makes it well... Tough.. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) If you're planning on starting Henle in 9th, I don't know if I'd plan to slog through two whole years of Latin prior to that. Henle does not require prior knowledge. While some prior knowledge surely will grease the skids, and is a fine idea, for my dd, GSWL was plenty. For a late middle school-aged student, GSWL might take all of a couple months. It is a perfect intro to Henle and has a somewhat similar design (grammar-based, limited vocabulary, lots of Latin to English translation), plus it's really not difficult. (One of my ds8s was doing GSWL last night - at his request...) For that matter, if you wanted, you could do GSWL toward the end of 7th and begin Henle in 8th. If it was too much for her, you could just go at the slower pace, taking two years rather than one to complete Henle. I don't know anything about Latin's Not So Tough, but it's doubtful that one could jump into the middle of a Latin curriculum with no prior Latin experience. Edited March 23, 2011 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 You can... it's like... a 3rd grade level. Big lines for writing and all. ;) Henle was good for my daughter; she started in 3rd with LCI and then 4th with LCII and then Henle with Units 1-3 the first year... online for Henle 1-4 or 5 the next year... then she begged out. But, seriously she had a decent grasp of most of what she'd studied... BUT, alas... she hated it and after 4 years of pushing, I stopped. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 If you're planning on starting Henle in 9th, I don't know if I'd plan to slog through two whole years of Latin prior to that. Henle does not require prior knowledge. While some prior knowledge surely will grease the skids, and is a fine idea, for my dd, GSWL was plenty. For a late middle school-aged student, GSWL might take all of a couple months. It is a perfect intro to Henle and has a somewhat similar design (grammar-based, limited vocabulary, lots of Latin to English translation), plus it's really not difficult. (One of my ds8s was doing GSWL last night - at his request...) For that matter, if you wanted, you could do GSWL toward the end of 7th and begin Henle in 8th. If it was too much for her, you could just go at the slower pace, taking two years rather than one to complete Henle. I don't know anything about Latin's Not So Tough, but it's doubtful that one could jump into the middle of a Latin curriculum with no prior Latin experience. I like the looks of GSWL. Maybe I will think about doing it for 7th and then move to Henle I in 8th. Then I have the option of stretching it over two years if I need to. Any other thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 yup, it's memorization :) lots of it. Now, to whether it's the best sequence... that's another story. I hear that latin for year after this... will be changed for CC. I personally think that "Latin's Not So Tough" makes it well... Tough..:) I don't want this to be a bad experience, so I really want to ease into Latin. It sounds like Latin's Not So Tough! might not be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julesnpebbles@suddenlink. Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Just wanted to say that I'm a CC Foundations / Ess director and we're adding a new Challenge A program. Lots of discussion on this because several of our children are already doing Latin for Children and so the switch would be quite dramatic in appearance and style. However, Leigh Bortins *just* came thru last week on her speaking tour and I asked her about it. She said that LNST provides the foundation that is necessary to have a strong grip on Latin. Yes, lots of memorization which is important. That's why they've used it thus far. She even has her own boys go back and review areas that they're not fluent in. You definitely don't want to do anything before LNST 3. It's super easy. However, they are going to go straight into Henle 1 starting 2012-13 CH.A. It's just in transition right now so one year of LNST would be a good idea to get a good base. Hope this makes sense. It's 2:30 am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 My ds is 7.5 and doing Latin's Not so tough level 2. It starts out with pronunciation and then teaches about 50 vocabulary words. Level 1 the whole book is just pronunciation(we did not use it). I have level 3 for him for next year and it has a quick pronunciation review, and a review of all the words taught in level 2. After that it goes into declensions, conjugation, more vocabulary, and basic grammar. I think an older student could definitely jump into level 3 if he/she can memorize the 50 some vocab words easily. My ds loves doing LNST. I do not have any Logic, or middle grade children. I just saw Latin's Not So Tough and thought I'd chime in.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I used LNST as a Challenge A Tutor last year. Ugh! I have a lot of experience teaching Latin with various programs. I understand why they think they need to use it for Challenge, but there is no reason to use it at home. There are so many better programs out there than LNST, especially for a 7th grader. I would look at First Form Latin from Memoria Press, which is intended to work before Henle. You could also just start Henle and work slowly. The gift of time at the beginning of a Latin program is great. You could pause frequently to make sure paradigms were memorized, which makes Latin so much more enjoyable (having to look everything up all the time takes all the fun out of it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 LNST is absolutely my LEAST favorite of any of the (many) Latin programs I've had the opportunity to use or study at length. I wouldn't use it. With anyone. There are so many *good* intros to Latin. For a 7th grader, I love So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep by Theo Zinn. If you know you want to go to Henle, the Memoria Press materials are a little dry but good. Many other options as well. I've never understood why CC uses LNST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Here's the thing... seriously... if it's the best... then why are they switching the next year?? I've ALWAYS hated it... and you can't tell me that it doesn't stink. Angela has a whole list if you just want to memorize grammar. You just need someone to tell you how to do it. Latina Christiana, First Form, perhaps LFC. It's a stinky program, people have complained about it forever, they are finally changing it... but just not till the next year. Wouldn't have my child take it... I'd rather an online course. Just my... well... 10cents :) Inflation you know :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thank you for all of the responses! I used LNST as a Challenge A Tutor last year. Ugh! I have a lot of experience teaching Latin with various programs. I understand why they think they need to use it for Challenge, but there is no reason to use it at home. There are so many better programs out there than LNST, especially for a 7th grader. I would look at First Form Latin from Memoria Press, which is intended to work before Henle. You could also just start Henle and work slowly. The gift of time at the beginning of a Latin program is great. You could pause frequently to make sure paradigms were memorized, which makes Latin so much more enjoyable (having to look everything up all the time takes all the fun out of it!) I am glad that you mentioned First Form Latin. I was originally thinking of doing it, then moving to Henle. Maybe I have to go back to that plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 LNST is absolutely my LEAST favorite of any of the (many) Latin programs I've had the opportunity to use or study at length. I wouldn't use it. With anyone. There are so many *good* intros to Latin. For a 7th grader, I love So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep by Theo Zinn. If you know you want to go to Henle, the Memoria Press materials are a little dry but good. Many other options as well. I've never understood why CC uses LNST. I do not know very much about Latin. I will be learning along with my DD. I am not positive that we will go to Henle, as that is a couple of years away. I just want us to have a good base to work from for what ever path we take. What do you use after So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep by Theo Zinn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Roller Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Just my... well... 10cents :) Inflation you know :) :lol: I appreciate all of the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I prefer Lively Latin to LNST, and we'll be moving to Henle after LL. Apparently LL is based on Henle. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in VA Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 LNST is absolutely my LEAST favorite of any of the (many) Latin programs I've had the opportunity to use or study at length. I wouldn't use it. With anyone. There are so many *good* intros to Latin. For a 7th grader, I love So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep by Theo Zinn. If you know you want to go to Henle, the Memoria Press materials are a little dry but good. Many other options as well. I've never understood why CC uses LNST. :iagree: We did one year of CC and my oldest was in Challenge B but took Latin with Challenge 1(Henle) because she had some Latin background and frankly I thought Latin's Not So Tough looked awful. The other kids in her group who had been through Latin only with LNST and CC struggled mightily. LNST did nothing to prep them. Not only that, those using LNST in Challenge B were struggling with understanding what they were doing. My daughter did very well and the tutor wanted to know what we had done prior to Henle because LNST wasn't doing it for these kids and she wanted something else to recommend. I wasn't much help because at the time we had been Latin curriculum hoppers but seeing LNST in action confirmed my belief that it is not what anyone wants to use. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharon&4boys Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 LNST is absolutely my LEAST favorite of any of the (many) Latin programs I've had the opportunity to use or study at length. I wouldn't use it. With anyone. There are so many *good* intros to Latin. For a 7th grader, I love So You Really Want to Learn Latin Prep by Theo Zinn. If you know you want to go to Henle, the Memoria Press materials are a little dry but good. Many other options as well. I've never understood why CC uses LNST. It's good to hear someone else who feels this way. We've been using Latin for Children and Latin Alive! 1 by Classical Academic Press. (I don't have experience with other curricula, but I did study German and Russian & have quite a bit of experience with language learning, and I think Latin Alive! is especially good.) When I saw what CC was using, I was disappointed. I don't have to worry about it because my children are not going to be in the Challenge programs, but I wonder why they chose it & not something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyinMD Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 My oldest will be doing the Challenge program next year and the CC community we are going to only uses Henle. For Challenge A they work through Lessons 1-12 and then for Challenge B they do Lessons 1-24. That way a child could come in at B with no previous Latin but the pace would be faster. For Challenge 1 it sounded like they do Lessons 1-36. I have not purchase Henle yet and I'm just going off what one Challenge tutor told me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 It's good to hear someone else who feels this way. We've been using Latin for Children and Latin Alive! 1 by Classical Academic Press. (I don't have experience with other curricula, but I did study German and Russian & have quite a bit of experience with language learning, and I think Latin Alive! is especially good.) When I saw what CC was using, I was disappointed. I don't have to worry about it because my children are not going to be in the Challenge programs, but I wonder why they chose it & not something else. At the risk of sounding like I hate everything :D, I am having a tough time with Latin Alive! this year. I am teaching a small group of junior high students, and every single week we find a mistake in the answer key it seems. It's driving me nuts! (I probably need to go see if they have a list of errors on their site somewhere.) I like that there is so much instruction directly to the student, and I guess the point is that they could do it independently, but not if the answer key is wrong a lot. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Bummer Angela!!! I trust you.... and I want to LOVVVVVVE Latin Alive!! This is what our Tutor wants to use. On the other hand, Classical Academic Press has done everything to be humble and gracious when they've found mistakes, and I'm pretty sure that as they improve, will provide opportunities for families to obtain their new material. This is why... I have faith that with Latin Alive, it will be the same.... Sorry that you're having some of the "Beta" trouble though... :( Thought it'd be over by now :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 PS, have you used First Form and or up from there?? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Bummer Angela!!! I trust you.... and I want to LOVVVVVVE Latin Alive!! This is what our Tutor wants to use. On the other hand, Classical Academic Press has done everything to be humble and gracious when they've found mistakes, and I'm pretty sure that as they improve, will provide opportunities for families to obtain their new material. This is why... I have faith that with Latin Alive, it will be the same.... Sorry that you're having some of the "Beta" trouble though... :( Thought it'd be over by now :) The program itself is good, and I'm assuming there is a list somewhere of errors, and I just haven't looked well enough. Your tutor should be fine with it, as she'll have the knowledge to catch them. There really isn't anything else for this age group at all, other than possibly First Form, which I haven't seen. It's actually been a good lesson, as I let the students figure it out. They tell me their answer, and I say, "Well, the teacher manual says..." At first, they would just write it down without question. :glare: After a few times of me leading them through, they started to figure it out, though. :D Now they really check their wrong answers, because they want to catch an error. Probably not a bad exercise for kiddos learning logic skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 PS, have you used First Form and or up from there??:) Haven't used First Form. I have Henle, as we almost used it this year(my other dd,) but went with Wheelock's instead. Another of the Latin moms would like to do Henle, and I'm thinking of just adding in my second dd, so next year, I would be teaching Wheelock's II and Henle I. :D Good times! I really want to look at First Form, though, in Cinci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I've heard that for the National Latin Exam (that's what it's called, right?) that Ecce Romani (sp??) is what lines up exactly.... Hmmmm ;) I like Lone Pine Classical online, too.... but my kids (except for my son) are so. done. with. Latin! Bummer... they were doing so well!! :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth in Mint Hill Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 :iagree: LNST are great workbooks simply to use to drill certain aspects of the Latin vocabulary and grammar, but they do not teach the subject. When you are homeschooling and learning the subject along with the student you need a textbook that instructs. Such as: Latin For Children Henle An even better option is Latin for Beginner's by D'ooge. This is an antique text that is available free online. And there is a key! Its layout is very much like Henle, but it combines the grammar reference sections within the chapters, and it is secular, not Catholic. If money is no object my favorite now is the new text from Bolchazy: Latin for the New Millenium - this is beautifully done--and has just the right balance between deductive instruction and reading & practice. Fwiw, :seeya: Beth Home schooled for 20 years, now: ~~ Latin Teacher Greyfriars Classical Academy "Ut conclave sine libris, ita corpus sine anima." ~Cicero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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