CanNOT pass a grade! WDID!?!?

[Virg]

Just for background: my step daughter has suspected fetal alcohol effects and has a very severe case of Oppositional Defiance Disorder. When her dad and I got married she was in third grade for the second time and still not passing OR state standards 3/4 of the way through the year. (The 2 third grades were at 2 different schools.) Her dad decided to have her homeschool with my children hoping it would help. At the time my twins were about to start second with A Beka and when I had her do a general assessment with A Beka standards I found she could not do most of it so had her join them and do second again. At the end of the year she was getting mostly Cs and a few Bs but really still didn't understand many things- time, multiplication, fractions, etc. At this point she was 10. She was also having severe behavior issues also by now and because she was refusing to do school or go back to PS we got Christian Light packets. I saw that there were major differences and got the last third of 2nd again. She doesn't get it. Any of it.

 

I got some public school packets from a special ed teacher who evaluated her and my son. She doesn't get these either. She misses 8 out of 15 on each page, when she corrects it she might get 4 more right. I can explain the last 4 problems in ten different ways and still nothing. She has done third twice with two different teachers and has used four different second programs with two different teachers. Nothing works.

 

We have had her evaluated multiple times they cannot tell us what is the issue. Her IQ is low average and they say her learning scores match that and at this point she does not have a learning disorder just it is difficult for her to learn. I don't know what to do anymore. I have bought target books to help with individual ideas such as time. A lot of times she will get it at the end of the lesson enough to solve the last few problems but the next day she can't do it again. If anything, I thought A Beka would have enough review that she wouldn't be able to forget how to do each concept but she does.

 

Here is my question: In PS special ed do they just have them repeat the same work over and over if they don't get it or give them the next grade each year and whatever they learn they learn? I can't actually put her in special ed because she refuses to go. I would like to replicate it at home as closely as I can. The schools in our new state won't help me and I have tried Google and my search wording must be off lol. Any help or ideas is welcome!

 

(Please no debate on the part about putting her into school. Anyone who has a chid with ODD that scores way into CD at 11 knows that there is no way I can make her. I won't even try, it isn't a battle I can win. I can't even keep her from sneaking out of her room with alarms on doors and windows and cameras all through the house. All I can do is catch her quickly. Behavior is what it is, the schooling is my concern ATM.)

[ktgrok]

Has her working memory been evaluated? Not being able to remember it seems like a memory issue. Or maybe a visual issue? Those are my two thoughts.

[Mission-Driven-Mom]

Can you get her tested privately by a clinical pyschologist that specializes in pediatric learning disabilities, add/adhd, behavior disorders, etc.? Sounds to me like there is some more specific issues going on (maybe one being in executive functioning/working memory...). I know the pysch. eval. is pricey but would be VERY beneficial in your circumstances. In the end you need a new approach to her learning but without knowing the specifications of her needs you end up spending the money anyways on failed, repeated materials, supplemental materials, tutors, etc. ... guessing on curriculum with kids who have special learning needs can be really costly. Also, a lot of psychologist who do eval's know that insurance is no help so they will work with you...some may discount and/or offer payment plans.

[Renee in NC]

A child in a special ed classroom is assigned goals and they work on those goals until they are mastered and then they get new goals. For example, my 8.5 year old's first goal is "Will read VC and CVC words with 90% accuracy." This is the goal, but he isn't going to meet it within the given time frame. When it is time to re-assess his goals, the IEP team will have to determine (a) why he didn't meet the goal, and (b) what they are going to do about it. (I told them he needed the LiPS program, but they wouldn't listen - he still doesn't know any of his letter sounds, much less able to string them together and read words!)

 

So, generally, they keep at the material until it is mastered.

 

In your situation, though, it doesn't sound as if she has gotten the material she needs. My 10yo is at a first grade level (he has multiple issues), so I will teach him at that level. He is in 3rd grade in school, plus he gets additional reading instruction at the 1st grade level. If he were going to stay in school, he would have to go to a self-contained room next year as he isn't meeting his goals (because he can't achieve at a 3rd grade level.)

 

If she is in school, she should have an IEP that sets out her goals. If she isn't meeting them, they need to tell you why and what they are going to do about it. Is she medicated for her ODD? What does her psychiatrist think about her lack of achievement? Is she getting any therapy?

[ktgrok]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the behavior will get better if/when you figure out what is going on with her learning issues. If it is a memory problem, or a vision problem, that must be SOOOOO frustrating all of the time, and would lead to behavior issues. Who did the evaluations? It sounds like she needs a neuropsych eval and an eval by a developmental optometrist.

[Virg]

We have had her evaluated twice by our local children's hospital development clinic. They use four+ sessions to test psych, school, IQ/brain function and whatever other area the child needs. We see psych, developmental pediatricians, occupation therapists, etc. All aspects of her memory are in the above average band so testing says. I was shocked. In both tests there was absolutely nothing wrong that didn't level with the lower IQ. It was very frustrating and as it has only been 6 months since the last one, we have to wait another 6 months. (We get it done as often as our insurance pays which is once a year.)

 

As far as her ODD, she is not on meds because when she wants something she can basically turn off the disorder. For instance at Christmas, the two weeks before she is an angel because she wants presents. They have never seen anything like it and we have seen multiple therapists. The newest psych doing her therapy didn't believe me until he saw it happen. It is just the weirdest thing. She doesn't test for ADHD, sensory issues, anything. The only areas she scored high on are anti-social and violent tendencies. Her pscyh honestly thinks she is a sociopath.

 

I will continue with the mastery approach then. (At least until we get more answers.) I just wasn't sure how it would look for her to continue to do 2nd grade work at 11 years old. I have to explain myself to a ridiculous level every time we have an eval done. I wanted to make sure I wasn't really far off. I hate pushing her through if she doesn't understand it though so that makes me feel better. She does read at grade level and can answer direct comprehension questions, just not abstract one. She has all her math facts memorized she just can't use them.

[ktgrok]

Has she been evaluated by a developmental opthamologist? If she has perfect vision she could still have issues with focusing, which would cause a lot of issues. It's one more thing to rule out. Also, since she responds so well to positive rewards, have you tried a sticker program or other reward system for schoolwork?

[Julie in MN]

Here is my question: In PS special ed do they just have them repeat the same work over and over if they don't get it or give them the next grade each year and whatever they learn they learn? I can't actually put her in special ed because she refuses to go. I would like to replicate it at home as closely as I can. The schools in our new state won't help me and I have tried Google and my search wording must be off lol. Any help or ideas is welcome!

 

I work in a Kumon tutoring center, and whether we have special ed kids or not, we keep kids at one math level until they have mastered it, which includes being able to solve a certain level of problems, being able to do it within a time limit, and being able to recite the basic math facts at that level (at least until the 4 operations have been mastered -- after that it's just doing the problem level & being timed to show they've reached the stage where that level is easy).

 

I think it does kids a world of good to continue at "their own level" as long as they need to.

 

However, if you feel the need, you can move her ahead in some of the math concepts separately, and still keep her where she needs to be in math facts. You could even pick and choose - maybe she finds concrete measuring easier than abstract problems, etc.

 

JMHO,

Julie

[ondreeuh]

We have had her evaluated twice by our local children's hospital development clinic. They use four+ sessions to test psych, school, IQ/brain function and whatever other area the child needs. We see psych, developmental pediatricians, occupation therapists, etc. All aspects of her memory are in the above average band so testing says. I was shocked. In both tests there was absolutely nothing wrong that didn't level with the lower IQ. It was very frustrating and as it has only been 6 months since the last one, we have to wait another 6 months. (We get it done as often as our insurance pays which is once a year.)

 

As far as her ODD, she is not on meds because when she wants something she can basically turn off the disorder. For instance at Christmas, the two weeks before she is an angel because she wants presents. They have never seen anything like it and we have seen multiple therapists. The newest psych doing her therapy didn't believe me until he saw it happen. It is just the weirdest thing. She doesn't test for ADHD, sensory issues, anything. The only areas she scored high on are anti-social and violent tendencies. Her pscyh honestly thinks she is a sociopath.

 

I will continue with the mastery approach then. (At least until we get more answers.) I just wasn't sure how it would look for her to continue to do 2nd grade work at 11 years old. I have to explain myself to a ridiculous level every time we have an eval done. I wanted to make sure I wasn't really far off. I hate pushing her through if she doesn't understand it though so that makes me feel better. She does read at grade level and can answer direct comprehension questions, just not abstract one. She has all her math facts memorized she just can't use them.

 

I'm guessing you went to CDRC or Emanuel? Our experience with CDRC was ... disappointing, to say the least. We had a GREAT experience with Dr. Sosne at The Children's Program in Multnomah Village.

 

Has she ever been evaluated for attachment disorder? The manipulation makes me think that could be an issue.

 

I have a son with memory issues, and we have to review CONSTANTLY. We use CLE because it's 90% review. We go over the info in different media (he reads, he listens to me read, he writes about it, he watches a video, he works with me at the whiteboard, we do flashcards, we recite chants). It is exhausting and frustrating. Do you have a system for memory work? I'm putting together a file like this one to organize our memory work.

 

:grouphug: I hope you get some more help.

[Mission-Driven-Mom]

SInce getting an eval. may (or may not) be out of the question for another 6 months...

 

How about trying some multi-sensory teaching? Although my ds knew much of his math facts, he was doing Abeka...dreading it everyday and he struggled as we moved into more abstract concepts. I have literally seen lightbulbs go off as he works through MUS...manipulating the blocks which leads to him visualizing the manipulation of the numbers in his computations. It's a good program for this. Also, applying visualization and mnemonics to his language arts program...this helps store it in their memory bank for internalization.

 

Lastly, I suggest looking into making some dietary lifestyle changes. I know there is alot of controversay over whether this works but I have seen HUGE changes in my kids by removing the "common offendors". You know symptoms are not just physical in nature...and any type of stressor gets the body's chemistry out of balance. Medications, yes helpful to alleviate a symptom, are band-aids (IMO)...so get her body healthy and balanced over the coarse of the next 6 months.

 

Just to give you a snap shot...Here is what I think my kids are the most sensative to and what behaviors we see...my oldest ds seems to be particularly sensative to artificial coloring (he gets hyper, impulsive, whiney, unco-operative, clumsy, diarrhea, also has reading disability)...dd5 dairy (hyper, sleep issues, short term memory lapses, spacey, constipation)...dd8 ?? not sure what is helping him but he tells me everyday how much more energy he has (add sypmtoms, slow processing, poor skin coloring/pale, lethargic/sleepy, headaches and nose bleeds). I know that sometimes IQ can be affected too...

 

We are GFCF, artificial anything free, low sugar. I also added a natural multi-vit, cod liver oil (mixed with a little oj every am) and a digestive enzyme for the boys. My neice is also a sensative type and tends to include manipulative behaviors into the mix. Because of the results we've seen I am a huge proponent. The easiest way to start is to eat fresh, get rid of eating processed food and develop a plan b/c it is a lifestyle change and you have to work on getting a variety of healthy, healing foods into their mouths (and hard work to get kids to comply...but trust me they do once they detox).

 

You wouldn't think diet would be related to a discussion on academics but they are intricately related more then most people realize.

[Guest SeaMom26]

I am in Seattle and have adopted children and this is a hot topic when adopting. This is a common thread when it comes to FAE or FAS, behavior, cause and effect, etc. Have you tried calling the Fetal Alcohol Clinic in Seattle? I think that would be beneficial to you and your DSD. FAE wires a brain differently than those not exposed, and therefore you will need teaching strategies that will help her, and cause less frustration to all of you.

[Dobela]

I am a former special ed teacher so I can say what the schools did where I taught. Until about age 10 (3rd grade or so) the child was usually in a pull-out resource room situation where they would be in a regular class part of the day and leave for special ed at various times of the day for what ever subjects they qualified for. Usually this only addressed reading, math, and Grammar/English. Other subjects were mainstreamed.

 

The IEPs were written as described before - x%mastery by x date. Some schools wanted very broad goals/objectives written and those seemed to never be mastered - ie will master multiplication on a 3rd grade level at 80% accuracy in 12months. Or they were so broad that anything met completion.:001_huh: Some IEPS were written very specifically and easier IMO to assess - ie will master multiplication of 2 digits by 2 digits with 80% accuracy by x date.

 

By 3rd or 4th grade if there were significant behavioral and/or academic woes the child would be considered for a self contained special ed classroom. To qualify different criteria had to be met, and honestly in the smaller districts I worked in, the criteria would often change. One of the first things looked at was IQ. A very low or boarderline IQ was given priority. If there were difficult behaviors, then those would also help make it easier to move the child to a self contained classroom. Some years we had one for behaviors, one for academics. Other years they were combined. We also had to prove that a long list of accommodations and modifications was not working and why.

 

For the kids that were still severely behind, but not necessarily in self contained classrooms, by jr high age, different steps would be taken. Mostly their academic load would be reduced to just maintaining basics and they would begin taking classes to help them be more independent - like social skills, personal living skills, pre votech classes, and so on. The long term goals would be to help them transition out of high school into an independent living situation with a job, or into specialized settings.

 

I don't know where your dd would fall. Others can attest that coming from homeschool, the school district may first make her 'fail' in multiple settings before they 'find' the correct placement.

 

If you aren't already, I would try to find some other specialists to work with her. I have a friend whose adopted dd is thought to have FAS. It has been very, very difficult finding someone willing to make official diagnosis and to think outside of the box as far as meds, education, and treatment. The behaviors you describe are just like her dds.

 

If it is FASD, there is a very real probability of Reactive Attachment Disorder as well and of course that complicates life even more. There is a yahoo group called RAD-FAS kids. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RAD_FASDkids/ Most of the children there were adopted. Some of the families are dealing with very profoundly effected, truely sociopathic children that are downright scary. Most however are dealing with kids all over the spectrum from mild to moderate. When I was fostering children with FASD/RAD the group was a great source of information and support. I really think that some there know more than the doctors and other professionals I have worked with. IMO, it would be worth joining the group for some more expertise, just don't get scared by really severe families - especially those dealing with kids who are acting out sexually as well.

 

:grouphug:

[littleWMN]

I have a daughter with probable FASD and what you describe is classic for FASD... they generally do not function as well as their IQ suggest they should, or at least they don't retain the information well.

 

My daughter is 5 and is actually mildly mentally retarded but still not functioning (per the therapists, teacher, and spec. ed. director over the district) at a level that a child with her IQ should.

 

Retention is a HUGE issue. They may know the material one day and not the next. For this reason, scores are spotty. For instance, on one of my daughter's IEP goals, she is meeting it at a 30% rate for one therapist and 50% for another. Those aren't consistent scores. And they are not good, being that the goal is two years old (at least).

 

My daughter is very sweet and charming but when pushed for information (what color is this?) she will shut down and exhibit ODD behaviors. People who know her but are not in a position to teach her or direct her in any way would not believe this, but it has been observed by her therapists, teacher, a psychologist doing testing, as well as my husband and I (and my sister, BIL, mom and MIL). Those are the only people really that have ever been in that position with her (other than other therapists).

 

We actually thought she has some attachment issues for awhile, even though she was adopted as a baby (and that is possible!) but then we learned that FASD kids have some similar behaviors as kids with attachment issues.

 

Send me a private message for more information.

Edited March 19, 2011 by littleWMN

[littleWMN]

I am a former special ed teacher so I can say what the schools did where I taught. Until about age 10 (3rd grade or so) the child was usually in a pull-out resource room situation where they would be in a regular class part of the day and leave for special ed at various times of the day for what ever subjects they qualified for. Usually this only addressed reading, math, and Grammar/English. Other subjects were mainstreamed.

 

The IEPs were written as described before - x%mastery by x date. Some schools wanted very broad goals/objectives written and those seemed to never be mastered - ie will master multiplication on a 3rd grade level at 80% accuracy in 12months. Or they were so broad that anything met completion.:001_huh: Some IEPS were written very specifically and easier IMO to assess - ie will master multiplication of 2 digits by 2 digits with 80% accuracy by x date.

 

By 3rd or 4th grade if there were significant behavioral and/or academic woes the child would be considered for a self contained special ed classroom. To qualify different criteria had to be met, and honestly in the smaller districts I worked in, the criteria would often change. One of the first things looked at was IQ. A very low or boarderline IQ was given priority. If there were difficult behaviors, then those would also help make it easier to move the child to a self contained classroom. Some years we had one for behaviors, one for academics. Other years they were combined. We also had to prove that a long list of accommodations and modifications was not working and why.

 

For the kids that were still severely behind, but not necessarily in self contained classrooms, by jr high age, different steps would be taken. Mostly their academic load would be reduced to just maintaining basics and they would begin taking classes to help them be more independent - like social skills, personal living skills, pre votech classes, and so on. The long term goals would be to help them transition out of high school into an independent living situation with a job, or into specialized settings.

 

I don't know where your dd would fall. Others can attest that coming from homeschool, the school district may first make her 'fail' in multiple settings before they 'find' the correct placement.

 

If you aren't already, I would try to find some other specialists to work with her. I have a friend whose adopted dd is thought to have FAS. It has been very, very difficult finding someone willing to make official diagnosis and to think outside of the box as far as meds, education, and treatment. The behaviors you describe are just like her dds.

 

If it is FASD, there is a very real probability of Reactive Attachment Disorder as well and of course that complicates life even more. There is a yahoo group called RAD-FAS kids. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RAD_FASDkids/ Most of the children there were adopted. Some of the families are dealing with very profoundly effected, truely sociopathic children that are downright scary. Most however are dealing with kids all over the spectrum from mild to moderate. When I was fostering children with FASD/RAD the group was a great source of information and support. I really think that some there know more than the doctors and other professionals I have worked with. IMO, it would be worth joining the group for some more expertise, just don't get scared by really severe families - especially those dealing with kids who are acting out sexually as well.

 

:grouphug:

 

Hey friend, are you talking about me? Because if not, I want to meet your friend!! :tongue_smilie: