Opinions on VP lit. guides?

[Homemama2]

I was wondering if anyone has used the comprehesion guides Veritas Press offers for their lit. selections?

 

Did you find these very helpful? From looking at the samples, they look like just a list of questions, but maybe I'm not getting the big picture with only a small sample to look at.

 

Also, did you find an average child could read the suggested books on grade level? I'm looking at grade 4 for next year, and the Hobbit is one of the books. :001_huh: This seems more like a readaloud to me....but if others think this is normal 4th grade reading material, then I need to ramp up my 3rd grader's reading!!

[Sevilla]

I find their literature expectations on the high side - and remember that many of them are better read alouds vs. read alones (and a child can comprehend a read aloud several grade levels higher than their actual reading). I would expect a 6th grader to be able to read themselves the Hobbit, and maybe 5th graders too. Not 4th graders (but I would expect a 4th grader to be able to understand the story read aloud to them).

 

I use a lot of VP books in my coop class, if there are specific ones you're curious about (in terms of their level) let me know :).

[silliness7]

I was wondering if anyone has used the comprehesion guides Veritas Press offers for their lit. selections?

 

Did you find these very helpful? From looking at the samples, they look like just a list of questions, but maybe I'm not getting the big picture with only a small sample to look at.

 

Also, did you find an average child could read the suggested books on grade level? I'm looking at grade 4 for next year, and the Hobbit is one of the books. :001_huh: This seems more like a readaloud to me....but if others think this is normal 4th grade reading material, then I need to ramp up my 3rd grader's reading!!

 

I was disappointed in their lit guides because, at the time, I thought there would be more discussion type analysis questions. There aren't. It's comprehension and some puzzle-type worksheets and a few craft ideas.

...and maybe some vocabulary. I can't remember now.

[Cleopatra]

I was disappointed in their lit guides because, at the time, I thought there would be more discussion type analysis questions. There aren't. It's comprehension and some puzzle-type worksheets and a few craft ideas.

...and maybe some vocabulary. I can't remember now.

 

:iagree:

 

I looked at them and found the same thing. I then tried the Progeny Press guides which were way over the top!

 

If you think your dc is ready for basic analysis, the WTM has questions listed in the logic section under Reading. It's a very simple, open-and-go way to approach analysis.

 

Another good resource is Deconstructing Penguins ... http://www.amazon.com/Deconstructing-Penguins-Parents-Kids-Reading/dp/0812970284/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298783439&sr=8-1 .... It helps the parent learn beginning lit. analysis in a way that is easy to implement.

 

Teaching the Classics has an excellent guide for The Hobbit but it is listed as grade 6-8. :001_huh: http://www.centerforlit.com/teacherguides.htm#hobbit

 

HTH! :001_smile:

[Chaqar]

I was disappointed in the lit. guides, too. Not much substance, IMO.

 

:iagree:

 

I looked at them and found the same thing. I then tried the Progeny Press guides which were way over the top!

 

HTH! :001_smile:

 

May I ask what you meant by "over the top?" I have been wanting to try Progeny Press guides myself.

[Cleopatra]

May I ask what you meant by "over the top?" I have been wanting to try Progeny Press guides myself.

 

Chaqar, I don't want to discourage you if you want to try them. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. On a positive note, I did find the questions more in depth than the VP guides; they are well done. I just couldn't justify having my dd write sooo many answers to soooo many questions. It took forever (or so it seemed ;) ) Very quickly I asked myself why I was waiting minutes for her to write an answer to a question when it would take her seconds to answer it verbally and the result would be the same. :confused: Even the guides for the earlier grades are a LOT of work.

 

So, basically for me, I simply did not find that I was getting results equal to the time it was taking to complete the guides. I suppose I could have chopped and changed but when you pay money for a program, you don't want to have to do extra work yourself. I also learned that discussion with my dd was so rich when we simply talked about what she had read; when I included writing, somehow it turned into a chore and her focus was more on the chore than trying to draw meaning from the book. Even now, we mostly just have discussions; sometimes I will get her to fill out a story chart or answer a few questions, but that's it.

 

When it comes to lit. analysis (and with some hindsight :) ) I believe the best way to approach it, is to teach yourself how to do it. That way you don't have to rely on someone else to help you (although I do love the TTC guides!) and you can tailor it to benefit your dc. It may seem like a mountain to climb but it's actually not that difficult to learn; it just takes practice. Have you heard SWB's talk on literary analysis? That's another good place to start!

[Chaqar]

Thanks, Cleopatra! I appreciate your thoughts. That makes sense. I may go ahead and try one just to help me figure out what is and is not beneficial, but I can see the wisdom in learning the skill myself, as you said. I will have no shortage of children with whom to use that skill in a few years...might as well start getting some practice now.

 

Also, if you don't mind answering one more question, TTC guides--what are these?

[LNC]

We use them in 1-6 grades. They offer comprehension questions only (no lit analysis), some crafts and vocab words. We add the one semester CLE reading in 4th grades for literary analysis and thought questions. In 7th and 8th grades I plan to use Lightning Lit for our 2nd semesters after CLE reading in the 1rst semesters.

 

What I like about Veritas guides in the grammar stage is checking their comprehension, answering in complete sentences and checking structure, punctuation, spelling and penmanship. They are very worthwhile for that purpose imo.

[StephanieF]

:iagree:

That is what I used them for and pretty soon ds was able to answer in complete sentences plus look back over the chapter to find an answer if he didn't know it.

 

However I was doing them every day as per the VP lesson plans and it is too much for us at the moment. It takes ds about 60 min to read the chapter and answer the questions which is a long time for a 2nd grader to do in one go I think. However I will get back to them perhaps spreading them out a little more.

Stephanie

[Homemama2]

I was disappointed in their lit guides because, at the time, I thought there would be more discussion type analysis questions. There aren't. It's comprehension and some puzzle-type worksheets and a few craft ideas.

...and maybe some vocabulary. I can't remember now.

 

Thanks! I was looking for more 'discussion' type questions, so this helps alot!

 

 

When it comes to lit. analysis (and with some hindsight :) ) I believe the best way to approach it, is to teach yourself how to do it. That way you don't have to rely on someone else to help you (although I do love the TTC guides!) and you can tailor it to benefit your dc. It may seem like a mountain to climb but it's actually not that difficult to learn; it just takes practice. Have you heard SWB's talk on literary analysis? That's another good place to start!

 

Thanks for this info! I have never looked into SWB talks; I've only read the WTM (and need to re-read it bc its been awhile.)

 

LNC~

What you mentioned about answering in complete sentences etc makes alot of sense! So while what I was looking for was discussion, I think that the quides would be valuable for the reasons you mentioned. Maybe I will plan on just using one or two for next year. I see you have a 4th grader now....are there any that you would recommend? Also, I have heard alot of postive comments about CLE but have never looked into them myself. Is the reading for 4th grade only for 1 semester, or do you just use it for one semester?

 

Thanks everyone!!

Edited February 27, 2011 by Homemama2

[Cleopatra]

Thanks, Cleopatra! I appreciate your thoughts. That makes sense. I may go ahead and try one just to help me figure out what is and is not beneficial, but I can see the wisdom in learning the skill myself, as you said. I will have no shortage of children with whom to use that skill in a few years...might as well start getting some practice now.

 

Also, if you don't mind answering one more question, TTC guides--what are these?

 

Good, I see I haven't discouraged you!:001_smile: It's always best to try something, because what works for one child, may not work for another and, as I said, the Progeny Press guides are well done. The factor for me was time (as StephanieF mentioned in her post), and if I could do something more beneficial with that time to get the same result.

 

Ah yes, I see you have an abundance of children! :D I'm adding one more tomorrow to our homeschooling adventure (a friend's dd); going from one to two will be a learning curve for me!

 

The comprehension guides might come in handy with so many dc. I still think having the discussions together is the most valuable approach, but I understand that moms with more children might not have the time to discuss with each child. The comprehension guides would be useful for such a situation.

 

TTC stands for Teaching the Classics. Their guides are the ones I mentioned in my first post regarding the Hobbit http://www.centerforlit.com/teacherguides.htm They are excellent guides that teach literary analysis skills, terms, etc. With my dd, I have her read the book, then we sit down and I ask her questions from the guide. Many of these questions generate wonderfully deep discussions. I don't require her to write anything down, except for their Story Chart at the end, which I find an extremely useful overview. I try to do 1-3 of their guides per year. They are downloadable off their site and everything is done for you: questions & answers. It's open-and-go, although it does help for deeper discussion if you've read the book yourself beforehand. They also have a course on DVD that teaches lit. analysis but, if you don't have the time to sit through it, the guides are the next best thing; you learn the process, simply by doing it.

 

Another thought is the Memoria Press guides. http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/LiteratureGuides.html I haven't used these guides but I have used a few of their guides for history. I would say that they would probably be similar to Veritas Press for a comparision.

 

I hope I've given you enough information but not too much so your brain will explode. :tongue_smilie: I remember trying to figure out which program would be best and sometimes it was overwhelming! Best wishes in whatever you choose!

[Chaqar]

Good, I see I haven't discouraged you!:001_smile: It's always best to try something, because what works for one child, may not work for another and, as I said, the Progeny Press guides are well done. The factor for me was time (as StephanieF mentioned in her post), and if I could do something more beneficial with that time to get the same result.

 

Ah yes, I see you have an abundance of children! :D I'm adding one more tomorrow to our homeschooling adventure (a friend's dd); going from one to two will be a learning curve for me!

 

The comprehension guides might come in handy with so many dc. I still think having the discussions together is the most valuable approach, but I understand that moms with more children might not have the time to discuss with each child. The comprehension guides would be useful for such a situation.

 

TTC stands for Teaching the Classics. Their guides are the ones I mentioned in my first post regarding the Hobbit http://www.centerforlit.com/teacherguides.htm They are excellent guides that teach literary analysis skills, terms, etc. With my dd, I have her read the book, then we sit down and I ask her questions from the guide. Many of these questions generate wonderfully deep discussions. I don't require her to write anything down, except for their Story Chart at the end, which I find an extremely useful overview. I try to do 1-3 of their guides per year. They are downloadable off their site and everything is done for you: questions & answers. It's open-and-go, although it does help for deeper discussion if you've read the book yourself beforehand. They also have a course on DVD that teaches lit. analysis but, if you don't have the time to sit through it, the guides are the next best thing; you learn the process, simply by doing it.

 

Another thought is the Memoria Press guides. http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/LiteratureGuides.html I haven't used these guides but I have used a few of their guides for history. I would say that they would probably be similar to Veritas Press for a comparision.

 

I hope I've given you enough information but not too much so your brain will explode. :tongue_smilie: I remember trying to figure out which program would be best and sometimes it was overwhelming! Best wishes in whatever you choose!

 

Very helpful--many thanks!