TOG with Classical Conversations

[tiffanieh]

I'm about to drive myself batty. Seriously. I keep going back and forth on what I should do next year. Part of me thinks I should just follow along with the CC guide (cycle 3) and get some great living history books and fill in the blanks. But then another part of me thinks that this will not be meaty enough, or fulfilling enough and I venture over to the TOG website and start salivating over their stuff.

 

But then, I get concerned that I am biting off more than I can chew and will end up scrapping it all because it's too much.

 

Next year will be our first year with CC so I'm not sure what to expect. They "say" it's only 20 minutes of memory work review, but I can see us taking longer than that.

 

Ahhhhhhhhh!!! Does anyone out there use TOG and do Classical Conversations?? I'd LOVE to hear from you!!!

 

Tiffanie

Ethan (9) and Ashton (7)

[johnandtinagilbert]

We are TOGgers over here and we add in memorization pretty easily through poetry, bible, and historical documents. I think I spent about a day putting together our memorization plan, mapping it out to match TOG. If you're really interesting in memorization, then TOG can easily fit the bill.

 

Have you considered TOG + Veritas Press cards as the focus of your memorization?

[tiffanieh]

We are TOGgers over here and we add in memorization pretty easily through poetry, bible, and historical documents. I think I spent about a day putting together our memorization plan, mapping it out to match TOG. If you're really interesting in memorization, then TOG can easily fit the bill.

 

Have you considered TOG + Veritas Press cards as the focus of your memorization?

 

The problem I'm struggling with isn't how to implement memorization but if doing a cycle in TOG along with CC's memorywork will be okay. The memorywork wouldn't necessarily be the exact time period.

[tiffanieh]

The problem I'm struggling with isn't how to implement memorization but if doing a cycle in TOG along with CC's memorywork will be okay. The memorywork wouldn't necessarily be the exact time period.

 

The time period would be off slightly in that I'd do year 4 of TOG (1900s to present) and Cycle 3 is American history starting with the pilgrims

 

We've studied the pilgrims to death so I'm really more interested in starting American history this year at the 1900 spot. My boys love all the war conversations we'll be having.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I would not rec. memorizing a different time period than you are studying. Confusion is bound to occur. We're starting TOG4 next year, too. We're looking forward to the war study.

[AngelBee]

:lurk5:

[AngelBee]

I would not rec. memorizing a different time period than you are studying. Confusion is bound to occur. We're starting TOG4 next year, too. We're looking forward to the war study.

Tina....how do you fix TOG to a 3 tr cycle to match CC?

[tiffanieh]

Tina....how do you fix TOG to a 3 tr cycle to match CC?

YES! I"d love to know this too. I have been looking at the Cycle 3 Foundations guide and the history sentences can be somewhat far apart historically speaking (even though in sequential order) and it will be hard for me to fill in the gaps in between each weeks history sentence if I am truly going to follow the program.

 

I do not want to confuse my kids, but I really want a LUSH, RICH, INSPIRING curriculum and am not sure I will ever find something that goes perfectly hand in hand with CC.

 

Is there a close 2nd option?

[AngelBee]

YES! I"d love to know this too. I have been looking at the Cycle 3 Foundations guide and the history sentences can be somewhat far apart historically speaking (even though in sequential order) and it will be hard for me to fill in the gaps in between each weeks history sentence if I am truly going to follow the program.

 

I do not want to confuse my kids, but I really want a LUSH, RICH, INSPIRING curriculum and am not sure I will ever find something that goes perfectly hand in hand with CC.

 

Is there a close 2nd option?

We just started using TOG and are debating doing CC next year.

 

If I have to choose, I will stick with TOG and maybe stretch out CC to fit four years at home (not do the classes).

 

Would love a better way to line it up though as we have been doing a 3 yr cycle so far. Ideally I would like to stay with 3 yr cycle, however TOG is so meaty, I don't know that will be possible.

[MeganW]

I know I read somewhere official that it is ideal for the oldest child to be in 5th grade when you start TOG. I have been trying for 15 minutes to find the link, but have been unsuccessful...

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina....how do you fix TOG to a 3 tr cycle to match CC?

I can't imagine how, myself. We tend to stretch TOG out (once we hit Dialectic), not shorten it. There are some suggestions in the yahoo groups on weeks to combine, but not nearly enough to drop a year out of the rotation.

 

We just started using TOG and are debating doing CC next year.

 

If I have to choose, I will stick with TOG and maybe stretch out CC to fit four years at home (not do the classes).

 

Would love a better way to line it up though as we have been doing a 3 yr cycle so far. Ideally I would like to stay with 3 yr cycle, however TOG is so meaty, I don't know that will be possible.

What you said :D

 

I know I read somewhere official that it is ideal for the oldest child to be in 5th grade when you start TOG. I have been trying for 15 minutes to find the link, but have been unsuccessful...

(laughing at how "girlfriend" I am saying this) Not anywhere official from TOG, you didn't :tongue_smilie:TOG is K-Mom program. Many find it beneficial to start TOG promptly so the parent has time to self educated and get a handle on the perks of Socratic Discussion. Doing TOG with LG and UG is a walk in the park and takes very little preparation. It really is no more work than SOTW or MOH at these levels. It actually affords a CMish education in the early years, with the classical cycle, and the hands on opportunities other programs lack, so it gets to be kind of geography/humanities Unit study in nature.

 

I defer back to my original rec. and encourage using TOG and filling in CC memorization where applicable, adding in other opportunities for memorization in the "in between" weeks.

[Hedgehogs4]

If you are registered with CC and plan to use their memory work as it is intended, I will advise you strongly not to take on TOG. I really believe that they are different animals, and would not be that compatible. I think that TOG is a great program, and CC is a completely different program. I think this is a case of you can do many things well, but not all at the same time.

 

If what you need is community and memory work, then CC is the way to go. Each CC sentence (of cycle 3) along with the geography is a rich foundation from which to build your school year with living books and projects, etc. It's a fun year of U.S. history.

 

If you prefer the TOG model, you will likely become very frustrated with CC's additional work and how it doesn't line up with what you are doing. One of the two will suffer, IMO.

 

There are a lot of really devoted TOG-ers on this board as well as CC people. Each could tell you the benefits of their respective programs, but I do think that in order to be used to their best potential, each of them needs to be used alone.

[Melora in NC]

In our TOG centered co-op, the kids memorize the Veritas cards. They add eight new cards or so each week, and by the end of the year they know the pack pretty well. The cards mostly don't "match" where we are in history, of course, but that doesn't seem to matter. (The kids are always pleased when we read in history about a person or event from the cards!) They like memorizing, and it seems to give a nice "frame" for history, even though sometimes they aren't familiar with each event at the time the card is memorized.

[SonshineLearner]

In our TOG centered co-op, the kids memorize the Veritas cards. They add eight new cards or so each week, and by the end of the year they know the pack pretty well. The cards mostly don't "match" where we are in history, of course, but that doesn't seem to matter. (The kids are always pleased when we read in history about a person or event from the cards!) They like memorizing, and it seems to give a nice "frame" for history, even though sometimes they aren't familiar with each event at the time the card is memorized.

 

 

Could you let me know how your co-op runs?? and also, do you keep them in Veritas Press' order?

[Melora in NC]

This has been our first year with TOG as the "core" (we started as a book discussion group, then added writing, Veritas cards, poetry, a Shakespeare play at the end of each year, and, finally, Tapestry). We start with the Veritas cards, which we do in the CC order (one of our members was a CC teacher for a couple years), then poetry recitation or presentation of compositions, then either writing class or book discussions (we divide the group into younger and older groups for this). Then we do TOG map work for the older group and TOG lap books or art/music appreciation for the youngers. Then lunch. Then the older group does history discussion and the younger group does some history, then both do some sort of history related craft. Most of the group goes on to do science after this, but we do science on our own.

 

We are making some changes for next year, such as doing writing class every week instead of every other week, and adding in logic, but what we've done this year has worked well!

[4 Gifts]

Last year I did do TOG and CC together! However, I would agree with a pp that one will suffer and for us that meant the CC memory work. It wasn't too big of a deal for the kids to be memorizing different history sentences than where we were in history (although I would prefer it). I would personally prefer a TOG co-op with the Veritas Press Timeline cards and memory work added in. However there just isn't one in this area that I know of and I haven't successfully been able to get one going. CC is a good program and so is TOG. I don't think it would be crazy to do both as long as you were comfortable letting one go throughout the week. I would love to hear from someone that knows how to make it work though!

[Joyful]

Last year I did do TOG and CC together! However, I would agree with a pp that one will suffer and for us that meant the CC memory work. It wasn't too big of a deal for the kids to be memorizing different history sentences than where we were in history (although I would prefer it). I would personally prefer a TOG co-op with the Veritas Press Timeline cards and memory work added in. However there just isn't one in this area that I know of and I haven't successfully been able to get one going. CC is a good program and so is TOG. I don't think it would be crazy to do both as long as you were comfortable letting one go throughout the week. I would love to hear from someone that knows how to make it work though!

 

Thanks for sharing your experience! We have been doing TOG for 3 years, and I am intrigued about how one might add in CC. They are planning to start a group near us in the fall. So that makes it workable for us in terms of location. But if adding CC means that it would cut into our time with TOG, then maybe we won't do it. I am also eager to hear from folks who have been able to get it to work!

[Chaqar]

Our experience...

 

We will be enrolling in our 3rd year of CC, and I have gotten over the need to have all the history match. The beauty of the CC Timeline is that it allows one to study history out of chronological order and still make sense of where each piece fits in the big picture. I disagree that it is confusing; I have found the opposite to be true.

 

The history sentences are not something we completely master when they are presented, but instead we sing them a few times and then refer back to them and master them when we get to them in our own history studies. In this way, I feel that I am not a slave to the CC curriculum but am able to make it work for me. Just a suggestion to consider.

 

We are currently doing 2 years of American history at home using the Veritas cards as our structure. My children have memorized the 160-event world history timeline, and they are also enjoying going at a slower pace to flesh out some of the events that they only know as a title. Our CC memory work does "suffer" in the sense that my children will not be memory masters, but that is not my goal for them, honestly. Some of the memory work is too random for me to justify spending all that time drilling into their heads. Much of the memory work is valuable, though, and we spend our time on that.

 

TOG looks very complex to me, so I don't know that I would spend all the money on it only to not be able to do most of it, but maybe you are OK with that?!? I think that if you want to do a separate history course at home it must be fairly simple or you run the risk of going crazy. We are using the Veritas Online Self-Paced course for history at home and doing LOTS of reading to correspond with each card. That works for us. I didn't want to give up all the reading, and I don't mind that we are not perfectly mastering everything in CC. We spend our time on the parts that I deem valuable.

 

If you purchase TOG for the booklist, I think you can make that work at home, but if you hope to do all the additional stuff, too...you are likely to be disappointed, frustrated, or both.

 

Just my thoughts...