Anyone not use IP and CWP?

[beaglemamma]

For those of you who use Singapore Math, do any of you not use the IP or CWP books? There are so many threads on this board that make me feel like I *should* be using these extra books, but I really don't want to add them in and cause tears and an extra hour of school every day if just doing the textbook and workbook alone is sufficient.

 

So...if you only use the textbook and workbook, how do you feel your child's understanding is? Are they getting all they need as far as preparation for upper level math? And how have they done on standardized tests?

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions and experience! :001_smile:

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I don't have personal experience but a friend with an older child (6th or 7th perhaps?) has only ever used the textbook .. maybe the workbook as well. Definitely not the IP and CWP. Our state tests and she's still doing it that way so I can only presume she passes the tests. She was the one that got me interested in Singapore to begin with because she told me how cheap it was ... and then I found out about all the parts you "have to have" to "do it right". Suddenly not so cheap. I didn't end up using it at all but I at least know someone who does so without the extras and is extremely satisfied. *shrugs* I might see her tomorrow, perhaps I could ask her about it for you. Now that I think about it, I'm curious too. lol

[sassenach]

This isn't what you asked, but I thought I would throw it out there. I do use them, but they don't result in tears or an extra hour of work. I started him with IP at the beginning of second grade, doing about a page a day. I often sit with him if the problems seem like they are going to be hard. There would definitely be tears if he had to do it all on his own. He just started 2B, so I added CWP. So far, I have done all of the problems with him. I want to make sure that he gets the bar diagrams right. He can do a lot of the problems in his head, but the most important thing to me right now is that he learns the diagrams, writes out the number sentence and then labels his answers. Those take us about 10 minutes to do together at a page a day (about 3 problems). So in total, it's about 15-20 minutes on top of his 4 pages of workbook. If he has a day where the workbook takes him awhile to finish, I let him skip the extra stuff.

[Crimson Wife]

Most people I know IRL who use Singapore just use the textbook and workbook. Personally, I feel like that's missing the best part of the Singapore program but whatever works for the individual student :001_smile:

 

Your kids are young & you have plenty of time to get through the math sequence. I wouldn't spend an extra hour per day on math, but maybe take Fridays to go through some of the CWP or IP exercises from the book 1 semester behind as a way of reviewing & deepening your child's understanding of the material.

[beaglemamma]

I might see her tomorrow, perhaps I could ask her about it for you.

 

That would be so great!

 

This isn't what you asked, but I thought I would throw it out there. I do use them, but they don't result in tears or an extra hour of work.

 

Thank you so much for sharing this! We used another program last year that was not a good fit for dd, so we started all over this year with 1A. We just started 2A after Christmas, and I feel like I'm already trying to "catch up" and get her through Level 2 before September. (I'm beginning to think that may be unrealistic!) Anyway, trying to catch up and add in the extra books on top of it is stressing me out in a huge way! So knowing that it doesn't add that much time to the school day is very encouraging to hear! I may just add in IP and not worry about CWP. Do you have any thoughts there?

 

I wouldn't spend an extra hour per day on math, but maybe take Fridays to go through some of the CWP or IP exercises from the book 1 semester behind as a way of reviewing & deepening your child's understanding of the material.

 

This is a great idea. We only school 4 days a week anyway, so taking a few minutes on Friday or Saturday morning would definitely be a possibility.

[Matryoshka]

I didn't use anything but the text and workbook till I found this place and found so many people raving about the extra books.

 

We never did buy the IP books, but I did get the CWP books - but last year we didn't get to them very much (they were in PM4 and PM6). My older two are now done with Primary Math. My older dd who is still doing Singapore (Discovering Mathematics 1) is using the workbook along with the text, which is "optional", as the exercises are in the text, but it's like IP for DM - the problems in the workbook are much harder than the ones in the text.

 

My dd in PM5 is now doing the CWP as well, but not IP.

 

But anyway, even though I've added them, they seem to have done well with Singapore even when I was blissfully ignorant. :D What I don't understand is how some people say they do Singapore with only the text or only the workbook - those, I think, you both really need.

[Crimson Wife]

What I don't understand is how some people say they do Singapore with only the text or only the workbook - those, I think, you both really need.

 

I think you need some sort of practice exercise book along side the text. Some kids need more problems at the same challenge level as the ones in the text, and they will benefit from using the workbook. Other kids do better with the more challenging problems in the IP book. So I would say that the student should do either the workbook or the IP book or both in addition to the text.

[beaglemamma]

My dd in PM5 is now doing the CWP as well, but not IP.

 

How do you schedule it in? Do you work with dd, or do you have her work, say, a page independently before you work with her on the new math lesson for the day?

 

We typically do the textbook until we come to the arrow that tells us to do an exercise, then we'll do that exercise on the same day. If there are two or three exercises in the arrow, we do each of them on a separate day. And when we come to a review page in the textbook or workbook, or a practice page in the workbook, those are each done on separate days, too. So I'm thinking if I tried to add all these extra things in at the rate I'm moving right now, we'll be somewhere around 3B by the time she's in high school! :lol:

[Matryoshka]

How do you schedule it in? Do you work with dd, or do you have her work, say, a page independently before you work with her on the new math lesson for the day?

 

We typically do the textbook until we come to the arrow that tells us to do an exercise, then we'll do that exercise on the same day. If there are two or three exercises in the arrow, we do each of them on a separate day. And when we come to a review page in the textbook or workbook, or a practice page in the workbook, those are each done on separate days, too. So I'm thinking if I tried to add all these extra things in at the rate I'm moving right now, we'll be somewhere around 3B by the time she's in high school! :lol:

 

We sometimes do two arrows worth of the text, and then both exercises, if the text is short (sometimes it's just half a page till the next arrow). Sometimes we do just one - I look ahead at the beginning of the year and estimate what'd be reasonable in a day.

 

Right now I have her do 1-3 problems in CWP on top of what she's doing in the workbook. Might be just one (or even none) if there's lots of workbook; on days where we're doing a review in the text (so no written work), I often tell her she has to do 3, and sometimes stipulate they have to be the challenging ones (they're dividied into "Practice" and "Challenging"). I've been letting her hop around, as long as she doesn't move beyond the topics we've covered thus far.

 

It doesn't seem at all hard to add in CWP with her, but somehow with the twins it seemed near impossible. I think it was trying to keep them together that made it so hard. Also, younger dd seems to be able to do most of them herself, or if not, isn't shy about asking for help.

[sassenach]

How do you schedule it in? Do you work with dd, or do you have her work, say, a page independently before you work with her on the new math lesson for the day?

 

We typically do the textbook until we come to the arrow that tells us to do an exercise, then we'll do that exercise on the same day. If there are two or three exercises in the arrow, we do each of them on a separate day. And when we come to a review page in the textbook or workbook, or a practice page in the workbook, those are each done on separate days, too. So I'm thinking if I tried to add all these extra things in at the rate I'm moving right now, we'll be somewhere around 3B by the time she's in high school! :lol:

 

We do up to 4 pages of exercises in one day, if it's on the same topic/method. I've been ramping ds up into doing 6 pages a day of work total. At the beginning of the year he did 4. If he had a 3 page exercise, he would do 1 page IP, if it was a 4 page exercise, he would do none, ect. Then I increased him into doing at least 1 page of IP, no matter what. Now I have added CWP, one page no matter what. The end result is that he does between 4 and 6 pages, more often leaning towards 6. The exception is if the exercise pages are particularly dense, I will skip IP and CWP for the day. He does IP sections a topic or 2 back, so that also provides us our review. For example, when he was working on mult/div in his WB, he was working in the measurement unit of his IP book. I've even heard of people going a semester or full year back in IP.

 

I really don't know that I could choose just 1. I think they are both important. I also don't feel the need to do every last problem in both books. So take that for what it's worth. HTH!

[jasar31629]

We use Horizons alongside SM. I like the presentation of the problems in the more standardized way for extra practice. Dd needs the additional reinforcement as well. I do love the mental math and ways SM presents things though which is why we do both.

[Mallory]

So I would say that the student should do either the workbook or the IP book or both in addition to the text.

 

I agree. We do the Text quickly together. They do the IP and one page of CWP each day (only 2 or 3 problems). We don't do the workbook. Also on the CWP if they get the first page of each chapter correct, we skip to the challenging section (and they usually do).

[Dinsfamily]

Just another chiming in to say that CWP doesn't cause tears here either. My ds likes CWP better than the workbook. He thinks in word problems. :001_smile: I use CWP after we've finished a level (both A&B) because I've found that it works better for my ds that way. By then, the practice problems are easy and I sit with him during the challenging problems to help. So far, it's taken us about a month to get through each CWP book in between levels.

 

ETA: we don't use IP.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I spoke to my friend today and here's what I learned: Her daughter is in 7th grade. They've used Singapore from the beginning. In the first couple of years they used the Textbook and workbook but her daughter tired of the repetitive work so they started using the textbook only (she has a notebook to do the work in). Apparently 7th grade is quite a step up so they are working through that at her own pace but anyway, her daughter, as of last testing, tested out of 12th grade math.

 

There are a lot of factors involved, obviously. If testing is what you're concerned about then yes, the right child can do well without the extra books. I don't know that my friend's daughter is "typical" though and have no other friends using Singapore that far along to compare her to. I have another friend that just uses the text and workbook but they're only a couple/few grades in.

[beaglemamma]

Thank you so much for your replies. I think right now I'm leaning toward only doing the textbooks and workbooks during the school year, and possibly adding in some of the IP problems during the summer to keep her fresh.

 

I am glad to know that adding in the IP and CWP books doesn't necessarily mean tears, and I'll keep that in mind in case I think her work load can increase a little more as shet gets older.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply and helping me think through this!

 

And RecumbentHeart, thanks for checking with your friend! :001_smile: