Julie Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have been reading some old threads on ASS and frequently there is a suggestion to drop ETC if you decide to pick up ASS. Has anyone done this and can tell me how it worked for you? What is the logic behind this choice? I have always looked at ETC as a phonics system rather than spelling instruction. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I have been reading some old threads on ASS and frequently there is a suggestion to drop ETC if you decide to pick up ASS. Has anyone done this and can tell me how it worked for you? What is the logic behind this choice? I have always looked at ETC as a phonics system rather than spelling instruction. Thanks! Yes, you're correct: AAS is spelling, ETC is phonics. However, sometimes the spelling method can also teach dc to read, which is what Spalding, Phonics Road, and Spell to Write and Read do. I'm guessing that folks who are familiar with AAS believe it can, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'm in the midst of this, so FWIW: dd is 7. She can read 4th-5th grade level with me, and she reads 3rd grade level for fun. We started AAS, level 1, in September and have made it through step 6 in level 2. I had her working in ETC 7, but I dropped it to streamline. ETC 7 has a lot of dictionary work, reading comprehension, etc.... It's not BAD, but I needed to streamline and we do those things in other ways. The spelling portion of ETC was just redundant to AAS. When dd reaches a word that she is having trouble sounding out, I find myself referring back to her spelling rules. (there's an e after that g, so it makes the /j/ sound) And mostly, she just needs those occasional reminders for long words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks ladies! Part of what puzzles me about the ASS is that it is slated as a spelling program. Based on what little I know about PR and SRW it certainly appears there is an overlap of many concepts with AAS. I am guessing one certainly would not do use AAS in conjunction with either of those. I am looking at this as I have not had the best of luck teaching reading with the phonograms, and thinking this twist might be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snickelfritz Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Well, AAS is all about the phonograms. The first step has them learn the sounds that each letter makes. 4 sounds for o, 4 sounds of y, etc... That's why it also works for phonics. For my dd, it's perfect. She was trying to spell phonetically, but we all know that English phonics is fickle. AAS gives her the rules and she is happily applying them on her own. Just being able to tell her, " every syllable needs a vowel," or " English words don't end in I, so what letter do you need." And the book did discuss exceptions like hi and ski and why they are there. I've seen HUGE improvements. But, if your dd doesn't do well with phonograms...????? ETA: ok. I get it. You want to sneak the phonograms in with AAS? Edited January 13, 2011 by snickelfritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcartmama Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 We do both. We need the reiforcement though, so if your child doesn't need it, then I'd drop ETC before I'd ever let go of AAS! We do OPGTR, ETC and AAS. They complement each other nicely. I like that a lesson we do in OPG might show up later in ETC or AAS or vice versa. My ds really needs the review! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks ladies! Part of what puzzles me about the ASS is that it is slated as a spelling program. Based on what little I know about PR and SRW it certainly appears there is an overlap of many concepts with AAS. I am guessing one certainly would not do use AAS in conjunction with either of those. I am looking at this as I have not had the best of luck teaching reading with the phonograms, and thinking this twist might be the way to go. The overlap is that all three teach phonics rules, which apply to both reading and spelling. You really don't need to use AAS w/ SWR or PR, but some decide to, at least for some time. Personally, it would be serious redundancy over here, but to each his own, ykwim. From what I've seen here, the ETC + AAS, until overkill seems to be an excellent combination. Generally, I have seen FLL and WWE added to the mix and happy mommas to follow :) PR takes care of the lot, too. Either way, you end up with solid Language Arts :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thank you sooo much for your replies ladies! Erica, It is not that she has not been drilled on the phonograms, it is that when reading she does not neccessarily make the application. I am wondering if I combined it will spelling if this might improve? Perhaps buying the ASS and still doing the ETC would be the way to go. Golfcartmama, you sure seem passionate about the AAS over ETC, care to elaborate? Tina I use FLL, ETC, maybe I just need to add the third element of AAS or go with AAS and FLL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mompotter Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I used both for the first year with my struggling to read dd. AAS has really helped her bump up her reading skills. It isn't all about spelling, it has helped her learn how to sound out the words. It has helped her know what sound you get when you put "ou" or "ea" together in a word. ETC was helping but this was like double timing it by using both. I have since dropped it but I am also using a more intense LA and there just isn't time for all of it. I also looked at ETC as extra reading and writing practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks for your input Linda, probably I sould get our my Visa card and just order it. The only negative thing I have read about it is the parent involvement, and I can manage that. If this bumps her into being a more independant reader that will save me time. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Tina I use FLL, ETC, maybe I just need to add the third element of AAS or go with AAS and FLL? I think having the "spelling" does help b/c they are making more connections to words and sounds in a meaningful way. Taking the time to sound out spelling words, then writing them reinforces the skill in different parts of the brain. Then, when they're reading, they make the connection that spelling, reading and writing are all Language Arts...the same thing! When we went to this approach, my ds, who was struggling with reading, blossomed! I SO wish I had discovered that with the first lot of dc! I have seen enormous ability differences in the younger lot b/c of the approach and I know it's not a matter of more intelligence, but instead am certain it's about application. Amazing difference! Get to shoppin' girl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) I have been reading some old threads on ASS and frequently there is a suggestion to drop ETC if you decide to pick up ASS. Has anyone done this and can tell me how it worked for you? What is the logic behind this choice? I have always looked at ETC as a phonics system rather than spelling instruction. Thanks! If you trying to choose between the two, AAS goes deeper by far. ETC is based on o/g ideas and sequence, but because of the picture aspect it works best with visual learners. It also has limited practice (even with the 1/2 books), not focusing on mastery. AAS covers phonics well, gives more explanation for rules, and because the pace is set by the teacher, it is more mastery in approach. The review is also customized to the student, where with ETC their is no real review, it just uses what was previously learned as you move forward. It assumes the child owns it by then and can use it. I have heard two arguments for not doing both. First is that it is unnecessary. True but if you child likes ETC and it makes you feel better then why not do both? Second is that if there is an LD present then it can confuse the child. This would be my bigger worry. While my ds has learned most all the phonograms at one time or another, with speech therapy if nothing else, he continues to have recall issues. But not with the group of sounds we covered when I used SL LA K as a base, which only introduces one letter a week, and then I lined up his handwriting, speech therapy and everything else to be on the same letter. Those stuck because his entire focus was on them. When one of the pieces was on something else it divided his focus and it didn't stick as well. Sometimes he remembers it, sometimes he can't. I am using both now. But I am basically waiting to cover AAS lessons till it has been introduced in SL LA. SL LA works off the sequence of ETC and schedules them as part of their program. Roughly ETC 1, 2, 3 go with AAS 1, ETC 4, 5, 6 go with AAS 2 and beyond. Maybe you could do AAS during the school year and follow it up with ETC over the summer for review and practice? Heather Edited January 13, 2011 by siloam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 AAS is a complete phonics program, so you don't *have* to do another phonics program alongside it. If you want additional practice you could still use ETC or something else. HTH! Merry :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Again ladies thanks so very much! Tina, I will "get shopping." :) Level 1 and the Basic Kit is what I am leaning towads, does anyone have any experienc with their readers? I am wondering if this is worth the extara $$? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Again ladies thanks so very much! Tina, I will "get shopping." :) Level 1 and the Basic Kit is what I am leaning towads, does anyone have any experienc with their readers? I am wondering if this is worth the extara $$? The readers aren't cheap, but they are nicely done hardbacks. I keep buying them even through I am down to one student, and they will be one of the last to go back out the door when I start selling things off. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The readers aren't cheap, but they are nicely done hardbacks. I keep buying them even through I am down to one student, and they will be one of the last to go back out the door when I start selling things off. Heather :iagree: They are pricey compared to other readers, but such beautiful, quality made books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Do the kids enjoy the story lines? Probably I will go ahead and get them it is bound to reinforce what we are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Do the kids enjoy the story lines? Probably I will go ahead and get them it is bound to reinforce what we are doing. Did you see the samples online? You can see inside all of the books, just go to the product page for any book you are interested in. The pictures are nicely done too, they add to the story without giving away the plot--so kids can't just guess at the words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Thanks, I will check out the links, read your blog about the BTW, great info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcartmama Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Golfcartmama, you sure seem passionate about the AAS over ETC, care to elaborate? QUOTE] AAS has been so helpful for my struggling reader, writer and speller. He now knows most (we're only 3/4 the way through level 2) of the phonograms for each letter and digraph...which is very confusing in our language. I see him systematically trying them when he is sounding out a difficult word while reading new text. His spelling has improved greatly, especially on basic words that he should know. We've also seen the benfits of the AAS multi-sensory approach for him. Most of the words on the green word cards he knows and can spell anyway (not always the extra words, but usually the main ones for the lesson) so he doesn't usually build those on the board, but many of the more difficult ones for him...like prevent and dentist (the short e and i sounds) are difficult and he needed that extra connection of building it, dividing it and then writing it. I like ETC as a supplement to a phonics and/or spelling program, but it would not serve as a stand alone for my child as he needs more instruction and review. We use it directly after OPG daily and are almost done with book 5. FWIW--my ds (2nd grade) uses the following for LA: OPG, ETC, AAS, Write Source & WWE (alternated), and GWG Edited January 14, 2011 by golfcartmama add more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Golfcartmama, thanks for getting back to me, it sounds like you have a good system in place. Probably readning, ETC and photograms are just not enough or enough of the right methods for her. ASS seems to have worked for so many others in the areas where I see her having the most sturggle, I hope it is a good fit for her. I am heading to our local HS store today and they stock ASS so I am planning on leaving with it. :) Love you call name BTW, my two big kids play cometitive golf and we are hoping the third takes a shine to the sport. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieF Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Again ladies thanks so very much! Tina, I will "get shopping." :) Level 1 and the Basic Kit is what I am leaning towads, does anyone have any experienc with their readers? I am wondering if this is worth the extara $$? I am awaiting my readers in the mail (today, hopefully?!) and will try to look through them and post my findings. I just COULDN'T pass up the sale this week! FWIW: the level 1 readers #1 and #2 are $14.95 instead of $19.95 but I think it only runs through tomorrow! Also, the 'All About Homophones' book is $19.95 instead of $29.95 (looks SO good, esp. for older kids), and the new AAS spelling flashcard storage box is $7.95 instead of $9.95 (it is REALLY cute!). :001_smile: As soon as my DS #2 gets about 2/3 way through OPG we will begin AAS as our spelling program and I am planning on dropping ETC (even though we have all really enjoyed them). It just seems like TOO much to do all at once and I don't want to make my DS feel frustrated by redundant work. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcartmama Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Love you call name BTW, my two big kids play cometitive golf and we are hoping the third takes a shine to the sport. :) Thanks!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarrieF Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I got the AAS readers for level 1 in the mail Saturday and I have to say: they are adorable. The stories are very simple (similar to 'Bob Books') but the illustrations are absolutely precious, which IMHO, makes the experience of reading them all the better! I am glad that I got them on sale, but I think I will still collect the rest of them one by one as we go through the levels. They are VERY sturdy, so should last from child to child. All in all, I am very happy I got them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks for you input Carrie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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