are there any disadvantages to starting pre-algebra in 7th?

[Adopted Heiress]

Hello, all..

 

I have not posted many times, but have lurked for a long time. I am looking for advice from those who have gone before me . I have a rising 7th grade dd who is finishing up Singapore 6b and we are contemplating going right into Videotext next year in 7th. I understand that she may be finished with pre-, algebra I and algebra II by then end of 8th grade. Is there any problem with finishing what are usually high school maths early. I was intending to progress on to geometry in 9th. any thoughts?

 

 

Thank you so much for your opinions...

[Janet in Toronto]

When we were in Georgia, my older son was in public school. Our county did Algebra I in 8th grade, Geometry I in 9th, Algebra II in 10th, and then Pre-Calculus and Calculus in 11th and 12th respectively. So I don't think it would be a problem.

 

Janet

[Ruth in Canada]

We moved (or will move on) to algebra in grade 7.

 

DD (the older of the two) did geometry after algebra I, then came back to algebra II. I'll do this with ds too. I think the extra year of maturity helps in tackling algebra II.

 

The only concern I have is that being able to do algebra takes a certain brain maturity, and I don't know how much you can rush that. So, if you start a kid early on algebra, you have to be ready to back off or find an interesting detour onto something else if they stall out.

[AngieW in Texas]

My middle dd finished 6B in April of her 6th grade year. I had her do pre-algebra stuff over the summer (aleks for one month and then Math Smart Junior) and then moved her into algebra. She's using two complete programs, so it's going to take her more than one year to finish, but I figure that's fine. She switches back and forth at the end of each chapter. She finished chapter 6 in Jacobs Algebra and is working in chapter 7 in Kinetic Books Algebra.

[teachmom3]

As long as the student has developed the abstraction/conceptual ability for algebra, I don't see any problem with doing pre-algebra in 7th grade. All of my children did pre-algebra in 7th, algebra in 8th, and then geometry in 9th. In fact, I believe that the recommended scope and sequence in California public schools is exactly that:

 

7th: pre-algebra

 

8th: algebra

 

9th: geometry

(Of course, that's not saying that recommendations necessarily translate into reality in ps!)

 

I've got a 14-yo homeschooled nephew who's in calculus 1 or 2 (I forget which) currently.

 

The only problem I can think of regarding finishing higher maths "too" early is, for example, students who take geometry way before they take the SAT. They tend to have forgotten a lot of the geometry by the time they sit for the SAT and then need refreshers of some type.

 

Oh--I suppose that if the student is too young to safely attend college and there is no one to help him/her learn the higher maths (like calculus) at home, that could also be a potential problem.

 

But pre-algebra in 7th grade shouldn't prove to be a problem at all.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I'm in exactly the same place with my dd (in PM6B), and I'm also strongly considering VideoText Algebra for 7th and 8th, then doing VideoText Geometry (which includes Trig) in 9th and 10th.

 

One thing I'm concerned about though, is that she will then go two years without any algebra before taking the PSATs at the beginning of 11th grade. If we go this route, we'll need to do some algebra review at the end of 10th, or the summer before 11th grade.

 

I'm also a little concerned because I've heard that VT goes a little fast in Module A. She hasn't had negative numbers, or probability/statistics. We may need to supplement those things, and any other gaps that show up.

 

The VideoText people say that their program can follow Primary Math, but I'm thinking of doing some NEM1 or Dolciani Pre-Algebra to introduce those gap topics before going into Video Text. I ordered a Dolciani book (highly recommended on the High School board), but haven't received it yet. I'll take a look at it, and then decide.

[Linda in NM]

Hi, Suzanne,

 

My son has informed me that his two favorites are Videotext Algebra and Trisms--I'm "not allowed" to change them <grin>. He's enjoying the teaching style on VT, and he'll be completing it in 9th (Modules D, E, F) and Geometry (either concurrently or in 10th--depends on what he wants to do). We'll use Kaplan or something to review before the national tests...

[Laura K (NC)]

I think there is a danger in rushing the higher maths if basic mathematics isn't down cold and instant. Pre-algebra seems to be a last review, so the problem isn't in pre-algebra taken early so much as algebra taken early before the grammar of math is mastered.

[JFSinIL]

This would be fine. Locally, about half the kids in public school take pre-algebra in 7th, then algerba in 8th. The others do not take pre-algerba until 8th. Two full years for Videotext is great, too - my ds had to speed through it in 16 months w/o a break to be ready for geometry in 9th grade.

[mcconnellboys]

As long as she's ready for algebra, I see no problem with it. Most kids today do some sort of pre-algebra in seventh so that they are ready to take Algebra I in eighth. I think that's considered the typical "college track" for math today. More and more school districts are beginning to move to a four year requirement of higher maths, rather than three, so this allows for calculus to be taken in the senior year, or some other higher level math.

 

If you're going to use VideoText, pre-algebra and Algebra I are covered in the A,B,C modules. They are not really separated out. So, you could either begin this in seventh and just work through it more slowly, if she needs to, and take two years to cover it. Or, you could let her move along more at her own pace if she can go faster and move on into the Algebra II work that makes up modules D,E,F. VideoText does recommend that you do all the Algebra work together, rather than breaking it up.

 

Now that they've come out with a geometry program, I don't know if they will change these recs, but I didn't see any indication of that through last year. Their Algebra II programming supposedly also covers trig and pre-calc. It might be enough to consider having covered trig adequately, but I think I'd do more for pre-calc.

 

For my older son, I felt he was just too immature to begin the algebra work in seventh grade, so I gave him a stall year of doing Saxon 1/2 that year. He then did VideoText A,B,C in eighth. This just gave him more math practice and pre-algebra type work before he started in on the algebra work in earnest. He still finished Algebra I at the end of eighth grade and still did the D,E,F modules in ninth grade. But I really think that - if your student will cooperate, LOL - just working through all the modules over the course of three years would allow them more time when the work gets more difficult. They might finish three modules the first year, then two the second year, and only the last during the last year, for instance. Or they might do two modules each year, rather than three. VideoText now offers extra practice sheets online, I believe. We also used both versions of tests and quizzes for extra practice work, where needed.

 

Good luck to you in your math journey!

[Adopted Heiress]

I appreciate the knowledge each of you have shared on accepted tracks and your personal experience...

 

Laura K, if you check again, what were you considering when you said basic maths should be down cold--basic math facts and functions-or more?

 

Suzanne, I would love to hear what you think when you have looked at the Dolciani book. You bring up a great point about negative #s and probability/statistics being lacking in Singapore..

 

Again, I thank each one who replied..

[Laura K (NC)]

I meant basic math... I guess that means basic functions. I get confused about what people mean by functions, though... different math books define that word differently.

 

I'll use my middle son, now 13, to describe what I meant. He's taking Saxon 87 now, which is a book that really is designed to get basic math facts down and to introduce just the first basic rudiments of algebra and geometry. He's in 7th grade. If I had to do it over again I would have chosen a book more like Lial's basic college math even before this Saxon book, because my son doesn't have math facts down cold. I say "math facts" like that duck says "Aflac." That's a key word here, just like "show your work" is the motto of our homeschool. This is the only one of my children who has not yet memorized his times tables, who has to think a bit to do a long division problem, who doesn't grasp fractions intuitively, but has a nice affinity for word problems and more complex procedures. He's the kind who will understand the method but lose the answer in the details. He's not ready to go on to algebra next year, even though this year was technically "pre" algebra. I'm going to have him do the Lial's book next year as another "pre" algebra so he can think math more intuitively and it isn't such a chore for him to remember basic operations. That will put him in algebra 1 at 9th grade. So much of algebra is fractions... I just couldn't turn him loose like that without more back-up.

 

One more point that might be obvious from what I've written: If a child is a little weak in math, or sloppy about procedure (like not showing work!), a great pre-algebra program will really help fill in the gaps, and two years of "pre-algebra" is a good thing if one year was not quite enough. I think Saxon 8/7 is really an excellent book but it brings up some concepts that go past basic math review. There's a lot of statistics, for example, in Saxon 8/7 that is <i>great</i> for standardized tests, but it's advanced... it's an application of math, rather than math itself. With math, mastery is always the key. Since my son hasn't mastered math, but instead has probably a C average and consistently shows general weakness, I think he needs more time with it.

[ereks mom]

No problems so far. I like having the option to go slowly if necessary, since we're "ahead" -- well we're ahead of what the PS here is doing. They don't do Alg 1 until 9th, then Alg 2 in 10th & Geometry in 11th.

[Julie in GA]

Are you saying you'll be doing both Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 in 8th grade? Is this how videotext does it? Those are usually each a one-year course.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Video Text Algebra consists of six modules that cover all of the material usually covered in Algebra I and II. According to the VT people, most of Algebra II is a review of Algebra I, given because so much is forgotten during the year of Geometry usually given between the two Algebra courses. By combining Algebra I and II, you can cover the same material in a much shorter time. It is possible to do the entire course in one year if you do a lesson every day, but that pace is too fast for many (most?) students, expecially younger ones.

 

I'm planning on my dd taking two years to complete all of VT Algebra: 7th and 8th grades.

[Michelle in MO]

As long as the student has developed the abstraction/conceptual ability for algebra, I don't see any problem with doing pre-algebra in 7th grade. All of my children did pre-algebra in 7th, algebra in 8th, and then geometry in 9th.

 

The only problem I can think of regarding finishing higher maths "too" early is, for example, students who take geometry way before they take the SAT. They tend to have forgotten a lot of the geometry by the time they sit for the SAT and then need refreshers of some type.

 

 

 

I think pre-algebra in 7th grade is fine, but just keep an eye on your student to make certain that they fully understand the concepts on each level before moving on. It will be to his/her advantage to be very solid in Algebra I before moving on to Geometry and Algebra II.

 

HTH!

[Sharon in SC]

-- well we're ahead of what the PS here is doing. They don't do Alg 1 until 9th, then Alg 2 in 10th & Geometry in 11th.

 

It's interesting - I just learned recently that our area public schools provide this for kids who show an affinity for math - pre-alg in *6th*, Alg 1 in 7th, Geometry in 8th, and Alg II in 9th.

[Gwen in VA]

Sharon,

 

If kids who are accelerated in math are done with both geometry and algebra 2 at the end of 9th, what do they do for the rest of high school? (Obviously a year of pre-calc/trig, but after that???)

 

Does the high school offer AP calculus AB? AP calculus BC? AP statistics?

 

I guess I have always been curious what schools do with these super-accelerated kids. If they do pre-calc in 10th and then calc (AB or BC) in 11th, there is still their senior year -- do they do AP statistics or what?

 

For homeschoolers, if we really accelerate our kids in math we have more options -- we can do advanced math via cc or online colleges or 4-year colleges or whatever.

[Maverick]

The middle schools in our area offer what Sharon described above for 6th-8th, then at the high school they go up to AP Calc (I don't know if they prep for the AB or BC test or if they have a choice). I think by that time most don't take a math their senior year, but if they want to they can do a class at the cc. We actually have a lot of public schooled and homeschooled high schoolers do cc classes through a program called Running Start. What I've seen is that most of those super-accelerated kids, as you call them, are so burned out by their senior year that they take the easiest schedule possible as a "reward" for all their hard work. The thinking is that an easier academic schedule during senior year allows more time for a job, sports and/or other extra-curricular pursuits, but in practice it just provides more time for goofing off.