Losing my mind over LA. Please help me find an all-in-one program!

[Cherryanne]

I'm currently using McRuffy LA with my 3rd grader and I'm not happy with it. I'm really hoping to find another complete LA program that is secular or easy to secularize. I'm trying to plan for next year and I'm seriously driving myself crazy over this. I've looked into Voyages in English but it's pretty pricey and I'm confused about what I would actually need to purchase. I've also looked into MCT but it seems like many people don't consider this to be a truly complete curriculum. I'm really hoping someone here can help me!

 

Thanks in advance!

[UmmiSays]

Hey,

I have been a big fan of mcruffy, but have oftened wondered is there something more of a challenge that is all in one. My 6 yo is about to successfully finish the 2nd grade LA in a couple of weeks so I was just about to order the 3rd grade package today. Will you be willing to share why you don't care for it? If you are not comfortable posting here just pm. Thanks sooo much.

 

Warmest Regards,

Candace

[TracyP]

CLE - would have to secularize

R&S - would have to secularize

Phonics Road

MCT - you would need to add spelling and literature to make complete

 

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. What about McRuffy are you unhappy with? These are very different programs. It might help to know what you are looking for beyond all in one.

[Dawn E]

MCT may or may not meet your needs. It definitely will not cover spelling, so that would need to be added. A lot of early grammar books cover not only grammar but also mechanics and usage. I personally like this and think these things--capitalization, punctuation, homophones, etc.--need to be practiced for mastery. I didn't feel these things were adequately presented in MCT at the Island level at least, but that was a matter of personal preference. Many people have introduced these things prior to starting MCT and aren't bothered. Many people have come to trust MCT enough that they are comfortable with his scope and sequence plan, and apparently he does spend more time in these issues in later series. I would want to supplement these, at least in the earliest level...and that is the only level I have experience with. When it comes to presenting the eight parts of speech, I feel MCT does a brilliant job. My dd loves the fun delivery of the material and retains a lot. I think the four-step analysis is very effective. It would be easy enough to add in a simple punctuation, capitalization supplement if you felt your child needed it.

 

CLE is what we use for our main language arts program. It definitely would need secularizing as it is a Christian (Mennonite) material. I like that it is thorough, provides review, and also has spelling and penmanship lessons included. My dd learned cursive through CLE and it was all she needed. She does well with the spelling, but many people have to supplement the spelling for children that have difficulties. Even though we weren't having problems I still added in the spelling rules cards from SWR just to give added tools with spelling.

 

MCT or CLE could be an answer for you; however, as with a lot of materials, you still may find yourself tweaking them to best suit your family. Are you going to a homeschool conference this year? There are several big ones coming up...Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Memphis, Greenville (NC). If you have one near you, I would definitely make plans to attend. Both of these vendors as well as many others will be there. Sometimes until you hold something in your hands you don't know if it will work for you or not.

[Cherryanne]

Will you be willing to share why you don't care for it?

 

 

It might help to know what you are looking for beyond all in one.

 

 

The thing I dislike most about McRuffy is the writing instruction. There's absolutely no instruction on how to actually DO the writing. For example, one of the first writing assignments was to write a research paper about an animal. It didn't list any of the steps involved in writing a research paper. It didn't specify how many sentences, paragraphs, etc. they were looking for. Nothing. My son has never done a research paper before. And unfortunately, all of the writing assignments have been this way. I've had to supplement with WriteShop Primary and Steck-Vaughn workbooks. I'm also not pleased with the grammar instruction. A new concept will often be introduced one time, with no assignment attached to it, and the child is expected to remember it. I'm also supplementing with a Steck-Vaughn workbook for grammar. When you throw in all the typos and spelling errors we've encountered (and we're only in week 16) it's just too much. I will say that the spelling portion is working well for us and my son loves the readers (typos and all) but I had higher hopes for this program.

 

 

 

MCT may or may not meet your needs. It definitely will not cover spelling, so that would need to be added. A lot of early grammar books cover not only grammar but also mechanics and usage. I personally like this and think these things--capitalization, punctuation, homophones, etc.--need to be practiced for mastery. I didn't feel these things were adequately presented in MCT at the Island level at least, but that was a matter of personal preference. Many people have introduced these things prior to starting MCT and aren't bothered. Many people have come to trust MCT enough that they are comfortable with his scope and sequence plan, and apparently he does spend more time in these issues in later series. I would want to supplement these, at least in the earliest level...and that is the only level I have experience with. When it comes to presenting the eight parts of speech, I feel MCT does a brilliant job. My dd loves the fun delivery of the material and retains a lot. I think the four-step analysis is very effective. It would be easy enough to add in a simple punctuation, capitalization supplement if you felt your child needed it.

 

CLE is what we use for our main language arts program. It definitely would need secularizing as it is a Christian (Mennonite) material. I like that it is thorough, provides review, and also has spelling and penmanship lessons included. My dd learned cursive through CLE and it was all she needed. She does well with the spelling, but many people have to supplement the spelling for children that have difficulties. Even though we weren't having problems I still added in the spelling rules cards from SWR just to give added tools with spelling.

 

MCT or CLE could be an answer for you; however, as with a lot of materials, you still may find yourself tweaking them to best suit your family. Are you going to a homeschool conference this year? There are several big ones coming up...Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Memphis, Greenville (NC). If you have one near you, I would definitely make plans to attend. Both of these vendors as well as many others will be there. Sometimes until you hold something in your hands you don't know if it will work for you or not.

 

Thank you for the information about MCT! I have a clearer picture of what it offers now. How religious is the CLE LA program? We used Rod & Staff briefly last year and it was just too religious for our family. I would love to attend a conference someday! I think this is part of my problem. I would really like to be able to see things in person. We're living overseas but we will be leaving at the end of the summer next year so hopefully I can find a conference wherever we end up.

[Dawn E]

Thank you for the information about MCT! I have a clearer picture of what it offers now. How religious is the CLE LA program? We used Rod & Staff briefly last year and it was just too religious for our family. I would love to attend a conference someday! I think this is part of my problem. I would really like to be able to see things in person. We're living overseas but we will be leaving at the end of the summer next year so hopefully I can find a conference wherever we end up.

 

Definitely don't rule MCT out based on my review...I've only used the first level, but I can fully understand why people love it. My plan is to hold off on it for a while--I think they are updating a lot of the levels anyway--and use it again starting in middle school. I think he has received a great deal of feedback since introducing the program to the homeschool community, and I think it is great that the company is listening to that feedback. You may not have the same issue I had, so do search through (as I'm sure you have :) ) the threads by the faithful users.

 

I haven't looked too closely at R&S, but my guess would be CLE is a lot easier to secularize. Some of the penmanship has been religious...scriptures, proverbs. But, a lot of it has been poems, facts about animals... You can see a good bit of samples here. Choose the level you want to look into. Once you've chosen that level there will be a row of numbers which represent the lightunits--for example 501-510. Click on those individual numbers and you'll get a sample of that lightunit. You should be able to see a sample from every lightunit. That should be helpful in deciphering...I have levels 3 and 4 and can look through them further if you're interested after seeing the examples. Just pm me as I may not see a post here.

 

Hope this helps!

[johnandtinagilbert]

The Phonics Road has references to God in some places, but I believe it would be very easy to secularize. It is a complete LA program and it is outstanding. I have used the first three levels (levels, not school years) and am in the home stretch of Level 3, currently lesson planning Level 4.

The social group here has been listing places where there are Christian references. I've begun to compile the list for Level 4 and will post when I'm finished (so far only 2 references in the fist 8 weeks).

 

If you're looking for flexible AIO that covers ALL LA, this is a great option. There is a link in my siggy for PR and also for my blog. I have blogged a bit about all the levels, so if you can grab a cup o' tea/java...head on over. It will give you a nice peak at the program. The website is also wonderful and full of videos to showcase the program. There are also samples.

 

Let me know if I can help you further.

[JenninMN]

I had considered using the McGraw Hill reading program Treasures. It is designed to be an all-in-one. The reason I even considered it was because the workbooks are available free online.

http://www.mhschool.com/reading/treasure_workbooks/national.html

I ended up trying McRuffy, and now I'm piecing together my own.

 

There is also Starline Press. It's rather expensive though.

 

Jennifer

Edited December 30, 2010 by JenninMN
More info

[Ellie]

What do you consider "language arts" to be?

 

Spalding can be everything (reading/literature, spelling, penmanship, composition, grammar) for children up to around 9 or 10yo.

[charlestonmom03]

Have you considered the 3rd/4th grade levels of SWB's FLL? I have been using that with WWE and find they complement each other very well, neither requires prep work on my part, neither takes a ton of time and the material is reinforced and solid. They are secular, inexpensive and the best part is that my son is really learning and making progress!

 

Good luck!

[kreistetter]

We are going to try Classical Writing & AAS this next semester. It is not "all in one" program, but I think they are both secular.

[rootsnwings]

We use k12 for language arts 4, independently, for my 4th grader. Instead of paying for the online "course" we just bought the materials (books & teachers manuals all come in one package) and I plan/teach whatever I want to on our own schedule as opposed to the online schedule I could've paid $23/mo (+materials) for. None of the coursework for LA4 is online--only the "schedule". I just wanted you to know that was an option if ya'll choose to go that route. I think our materials were $120 shipped and that includes Spelling, Literature (books & worktext), Writing/Composition, vocabulary, grammar/mechanics & usage. I think the materials for later grades are a little less expensive because there is less involved (I don't think they teach spelling after 6th grade, etc)

 

Anyway LMK if you have anymore questions. I am loving the k12 LA and will probably stick with it next year as well. It's very thorough and since I'm NOT a fan of LA myself it gives me confidence that Braden's getting ALL that he needs (and then some, imho).

 

HTH! :)

Edited December 30, 2010 by rootsnwings

[Cherryanne]

I had considered using the McGraw Hill reading program Treasures. It is designed to be an all-in-one. The reason I even considered it was because the workbooks are available free online.

http://www.mhschool.com/reading/treasure_workbooks/national.html

I ended up trying McRuffy, and now I'm piecing together my own.

 

There is also Starline Press. It's rather expensive though.

 

Jennifer

 

Thank you! I'm relieved to hear from someone else who didn't love McRuffy. We seem to be in the minority.

 

What do you consider "language arts" to be?

 

Spalding can be everything (reading/literature, spelling, penmanship, composition, grammar) for children up to around 9 or 10yo.

 

I've never heard of Spalding. I will definitely check it out. Thank you!

 

Have you considered the 3rd/4th grade levels of SWB's FLL? I have been using that with WWE and find they complement each other very well, neither requires prep work on my part, neither takes a ton of time and the material is reinforced and solid. They are secular, inexpensive and the best part is that my son is really learning and making progress!

 

Good luck!

 

I think I need to give these another look. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

We use k12 for language arts 4 independently for my 4th grader. Instead of paying for the online "course" we just bought the materials (books & teachers manuals all come in one package) and I plan/teach whatever I want to on our own schedule as opposed to the online schedule I could've paid $23/mo (+materials) for. None of the coursework for LA4 is online. I just wanted you to know that was an option if ya'll choose to go that route. I think our materials were $120 shipped and that includes Spelling, Literature (books & worktext), Writing/Composition, vocabulary, grammar/mechanics & usage. I think the later grades are a little less expensive because there is less involved (I don't think they teach spelling after 6th grade, etc)

 

Anyway LMK if you have anymore questions. I am loving the k12 LA and will probably stick with it next year as well. It's very thorough and since I'm NOT a fan of LA myself it gives me confidence that Braden's getting ALL that he needs (and then some, imho).

 

HTH! :)

 

Honestly, this sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! I didn't think to look at K12 because I assumed it was all online. So you just purchased the required materials kit, is that right? Do you think that's all I would need?

 

 

We are going to try Classical Writing & AAS this next semester. It is not "all in one" program, but I think they are both secular.

 

I think I might have to come to terms with the fact that I may not find an all-in-one curriculum. I will look into these titles! Thank you!

[rootsnwings]

Yes! All the workbooks, teachers manuals, readers/novels, magazines, etc are all included in the materials kit!

 

ETA: I do supplement for cursive.

[Cherryanne]

Yes! All the workbooks, teachers manuals, readers/novels, magazines, etc are all included in the materials kit!

 

ETA: I do supplement for cursive.

 

Awesome! Did you just sign up for the monthly subscription and cancel after the first month? It doesn't look like I have the option to purchase just the materials at first.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

[Cherryanne]

You aren't going to find an all in one LA program that does everything well. They either have great writing instruction and the grammar isn't great, or the grammar is top notch and the writing lacks, or there is no spelling at all..... you get the point.

 

If you want solid LA instruction I suggest you quit trying to get it all in one book.

 

 

You're right. I think I need to accept this.

[rlugbill]

We used to use CLE, but have switched to Saxon (Hake) Grammar. It is good, all-in-one program. It is secular. Similar to Saxon math in that it reviews prior material.

 

Your child will definitely know grammar with Saxon (Hake) Grammar. It has levels 5-8, but don't let that scare you from using it for a 4th grader. No reason a fourth grader couldn't start with the level 5 unless the child has learning problems or is very weak in reading.

 

Best wishes.:auto:

[Cleopatra]

Classical Writing includes writing, grammar & spelling and all are top notch. The book they suggest for the grammar portion is Harvey's but many people are using R&S or other programs and they work just as well. I like the program because it is so flexible and you can tailor it to suit each child without worrying if you've missed something.

 

The drawbacks for some people is that you have to familiarize yourself with the program and there is a learning curve when you first start. It does have quite a bit of teacher involvement but it is to the benefit of the student. While I wouldn't label it either a Christian or secular program, some of the models are from the bible. If you really don't want to use them, you can always substitute something else but they really try to pick models that have a good moral message (Aesop, James Baldwin, the Bible, Homer, etc.)

 

It's working wonderfully for us!

[johnandtinagilbert]

You aren't going to find an all in one LA program that does everything well. They either have great writing instruction and the grammar isn't great, or the grammar is top notch and the writing lacks, or there is no spelling at all..... you get the point.

 

If you want solid LA instruction I suggest you quit trying to get it all in one book.

 

However, you can get most of it from one publisher if you like. FLL and WWE are made to go together. They can be separate, but they were written to compliment one another. Just add spelling of your choice and that is a complete LA program.

I found one. It's not entirely secular, but it surely does everything well. Just sayin'....it's out there!