Writing Help!

[ValRN]

:banghead: I am at a loss here. My 10th grade ds writes like a 5th grader (if that)! I've tried so many writing curricula and online classes (IEW, Put That In Writing, Oxford Tutorial Service) and have had NO success.

 

One of ds's problems is that he doesn't care about the quality of his work. Don't get me wrong, he's a very bright student (last year had a 3.96 with all online and co-op classes graded by those teachers), but he is not motivated at all. And it's obvious that he doesn't work as hard for me as he does for other teachers.

 

He made an A in his composition class last year with Oxford Tutorials; however, I think that Dr. Lund graded very leniently. He is the one who told me that I probably should go back to the beginning (paragraph) with my son. The content and style of my son's writing is very amateurish and quite embarrassing for me.

 

I've contacted Sylvan Learning Center and am also considering WriteGuide as I think that my son will put forth more effort if writing for someone eyes other than mine and dh's. I made a mistake by not putting him in our co-op's high school writing class. Why, oh why didn't I make him take that class?

 

Writing is not my forte. However, I thought that I could teach him with the right curriculum. That's not working.

 

I think the bottom line is that he is just not motivated and doesn't care about the quality of his work.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can help him, if this is something that he will grow out of, etc.?

 

Dejected about this,

Val

[AnitaMcC]

What about a local college that offers remedial writing?

 

Our CC offers classes for the community to brush up on certain skills and many are specific for kids/teens.

[OLG]

How often does he write essays? Has he read essays by others at his grade level? To write well requires lots of writing outside of a 'writing program' and tied to subject matter of interest. Will he go on to college? If so, he might be spurred on by reading what essays are required for the whole admissions process and looking at samples from other students. Imo, boys are harder to get going in the writing area but with constant practice they can do it! What are his interests? have him apply his knowledge of writing to those subject areas.

 

I also think guys struggle with length writing programs which is why we loved the Writee@Home essay workshop. Superb guidance and feedback and shorter turnarounds.

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

[Jenn in CA]

Kids who don't try... ah, I know all about them.

 

When my boys took CC freshman Eng. comp (in high school) they stepped it up considerably. They were just OK writers before. The approach in college seems to be, "As long as you have the basics of mechanics and usage down [and we'll even help you there if you need it], we'll teach you how to write." They learned a lot, worked very hard, and improved a lot. But I realized after that that I don't need to make sure they are great writers before they get to that point... they would learn to write well in college.

 

That may or may not comfort you. But it's one perspective anyway.

 

As far as motivation goes, I try to work on that from a character standpoint. Curriculum doesn't usually help build character. Instead we talk, talk, talk about character and why we should try hard, etc. If they don't take responsibility for better work, I revoke privileges or give out extra schoolwork until they do. Generally at that point they will take me seriously.

 

For ex, if my son gave me a poorly-written paper, I might go over what needed to be done, and then no screen time, iPod, etc. until it's been done.

 

Then I would set that as the standard for the next paper, but no "do-overs".

 

If, when it is handed in, it contains the same types of errors or poor writing that he had to correct last time, then he has to write a second paper, and no screen time, etc. until it's finished. This serves a dual purpose: It gives your child something to avoid (extra work), thus motivating him to put more effort in on his own, and at the same time, it will give him more opportunities for writing practice if indeed he has to write a second paper.

 

I hope you can see my point, that the curriculum won't tell you to do that, you have to do that yourself. You can work on motivation with any writing curriculum. And it's good for them!

[Musicmom]

WriteGuide sounds like it might be a really good option. I often considered it for ds (who had a terrible time writing in 9th and 10th) but never actually got around to signing up. Anyway, my impression of the program was that it can be as personalized as you need--so they could probably start with wherever your ds is in his ability and work forward. I think it requires daily email communication, so he would have to work for someone else--plus their samples of teaching seemed positive and upbeat. I think also you can try it out for one month for a very reasonable cost and see if you like it.

 

There is definitely hope. My ds could barely put a word on paper in 9th grade. IEW helped somewhat in 10th, but progress was slow year to year. By 12th grade he was actually writing quite well, but not in much volume, and now as a college freshman he is turning out 1200-1500 essays (out of necessity) and doing fine. You just need to find what will help your ds move forward and keep at it.

 

Best of luck! :001_smile:

[Nan in Mass]

Some time during my two sons' 16th year, their attitude changed. The year they were 15, they just coasted along doing the minimum in any subject that either required hard work or was uninteresting to them. Then after the summer, they came back with an entirely new attitude. I'm not sure if it is because at the end of that uneffortful year, they go take the tests for CC and get their student id's, or because in the spring of that year, they go off peacewalking for a few months, or becasue they grow up. If you ask them, they say it is becasue of the peacewalking. I suspect in our case they are right. They always mature tons when they are walking. Other people here, though, say that they see a big change in their boys between 15yo and 16yo.

For writing, I just kept plugging away at it, making sure they knew a few formulas for structuring a paragraph or essay. They worked extra hard on the placement test and surprised themselves by placing into freshman comp. I don't have them take it, though, until they are 17. That gives me another year to get them writing faster and more easily. It seemed like things just clicked, writing-wise for mine at the end of the year they are 15. I found using the Schaffer formula very useful for the youngest. Both of them take CC speech before they take composition and that teaches them about structure and wording without making them actually write, which is very, very useful. I worked at storytelling beforehand, and by then, they usually have had to listen to lots of speeches and even make some while peacewalking, so they want to take speech LOL. I would never in a million years have thought even to suggest a speech class. All three of mine aren't great writers, but they can bang out an essay, if need be.

-Nan

[ValRN]

AnitaMcC - I will look into what our CC offers regarding remedial writing courses. He definitely needs one.

 

OLG - My son writes a paragraph (remember, we had to go back to the basics) every week. They are usually junk. You brought up a very good point about reading essays by others at his grade level. I would like to do that. Can you recommend a website? I do have a book that has college admission essays in it. I will start with that. His interests - Transformers (yes, he is 16), music, trumpet playing, model railroading, and history. I have been lacking in having ds write about subjects that interest him. That is my fault. It is so hard for me to do anything other than what the curriculum says to do. But I guess I've got to get off that horse in order to help him make progress.

 

Jenn in CA - :banghead: I have no clue as to what to do to make my son more motivated. He gives as little as he can in EVERYTHING he does. Oh, let me take that back. He does spend a lot of time and effort or customizing his Transformers. He loves playing trumpet and he does as little as he can with that. He wants to be a famous musician or even play in a major symphony orchestra; however, practice is the last thing he does every day and 90% of the time we have to tell him to go practice. Like your sons, more challenging work makes him work a little harder. But I have to find the right class for him. I need someone to meet him where he is. We've talked about the character issue to no avail. We've taken away screen time to no avail. He just sits around and does nothing. I do have to say that we've never taken things away completely- we've just limited. Maybe we should strip him dry.

 

Musicmom - Your story is hopeful. I can only pray that he will get better. Right now it looks hopeless.

 

Nan in Mass - My son just turned 16 a month ago and he is still so young (a nice word for immature). He wants to go to college but does not reallly grasp that it takes works. I really don't know how to explain it. It baffles and frustrates me. He is as comfortable with a C as he is with an A. He thinks that because he usually makes A's, that studying any more would be a waste of his time. I'm praying that he matures this year.

[MommyThrice]

Has he read essays by others at his grade level? ........ If so, he might be spurred on by reading what essays are required for the whole admissions process and looking at samples from other students.

Mary

 

Mary,

Do you have any idea where to find samples? I would love to find something like this for my kids.

Thanks,

Tracie

[Julie in MN]

My very lackadaisical youngest son was telling me that nothing he wrote mattered, etc etc.

 

Last year (8th) I got MCT's writing materials and went through the paragraphs (goofy duck story) and then the essays. It didn't spend tons and tons of time having him "write 500 words about x." The assignments were good and reflected the organization he was being taught. I thought it was an excellent program to make a big jump in writing. (The next step up in MCT is very serious MLA format with footnotes etc.)

 

I also started the year by reading my son a section of MCT's paragraph on "no elementary school errors allowed," here

http://www.rfwp.com/downloads.php#10

(Under #11, About Research Papers," the first full paragraph on page 2.)

 

That said, each child needs to work on different things. Just having them write regularly and telling the child what you, as a reader, have trouble understanding in their writing are the most important pieces, IMHO.

Julie

[Jenn in CA]

This is very interesting! What exactly did you use? I looked at his website but can't quickly figure out what you're referring to (the one with the goofy duck story).

[Julie in MN]

This is very interesting! What exactly did you use? I looked at his website but can't quickly figure out what you're referring to (the one with the goofy duck story).

 

We used Paragraph Town for the paragraphs (duck story),

and Essay Voyage (less of a story, but does have a shipping journal of sorts).

They're all here:

http://www.rfwp.com/mct.php

[Scotia]

I am going to chime in with a vote for the WriteShop program. We have been using it for about a month and the improvement in my dd's writing is tremendous. Things that work for us: Clearly outlined steps for both the student and the teacher (each has their own book), a clearly delineated focus in each week's work, built in revision and refining (Brainstorming, Sloppy copy, first revision, final draft), checklists for reviewing the work for both student and teacher (students does one on their first revision, teacher does another on the first draft turned in, and then a third for the teacher's use on the final draft - all are in the student workbook so the student can look at them to judge their own work before turning it in.) and the assignments are meant to be a paragraph which for a reluctant writer is not too terrible.

 

Good luck.

[ValRN]

I use this for my 7th grade ds. I considered using it for my 10th grade ds, but tried something different. Luckily, the mom who teaches writing at our co-op offered to tutor 10th grade ds and allow him to join her class. He's fallen in line just swimmingly and his writing has improved drastically. I knew that he performed better with someone else as his teacher, but I had no idea that he would perform so poorly for me. His new writing teacher said that he is writing well. He is putting in more effort into his assignments and has not complained one iota.

 

I don't know what we'll do next year because this wonderful teacher will not be a part of our co-op next year because she is moving out of the state. :crying:

[justamouse]

What's he reading? Does he enjoy it or is it something that you have to pull teeth to get him to do? What does he enjoy?

 

Can he read anything -ANYTHING- that he enjoys that has more complex sentences?

 

If you want to, http://college.heinemann.com/shared/products/0447.asp

 

The Killgallon's Sentence Composing for College might be a good choice--or the Sentence Composing for High School? He walks it though step by step imitation, so it might be a good pick for you.

 

The only other thing I can think of is what some of the other posters said-put him in a CC class and see what happens.

 

It may be that he is just immature and isn't thinking in complex sentences. Nothing but time can cure that!:D

[ValRN]

@ Justamouse - he reads a variety of genres. He loves to read. Currently for school he is reading Julius Caesar. For fun he is reading The Musician's Daughter and two other books I can't recall at this time.

 

He loves music - both listening and playing. He likes history a lot.

 

I will take a look into the book you recommended because he certainly can benefit from learning to create more sophisticated sentences.