PR people: A few questions?

[FairProspects]

I'm so torn about PR. I dismissed it last year because ds couldn't write well enough. Now that writing would not be an issue, I'm re-considering it because the concept is similar to what we are doing now and it is the only thing that has worked for him. I do have some questions/reservations though.

 

1. Would it be a horrible idea to just use level 1 and then switch to something else for spelling? I don't really like the idea of literature studies that occur in the other levels.

 

2. Is there a way to just do the spelling parts without the literary analysis (although that would be one heck of an expensive spelling program)?

 

3. I really want to do FLL & WWE for grammar and writing. Would it even be worth it to do PR if I plan to go another direction for writing & grammar?

 

4. I do like the idea of this program for reading & spelling, I'm just not sold on it for grammar. Can anyone compare FLL & PR as far as grammar instruction goes?

[Guest aquiverfull]

Well we are just finishing up PR 1 so I'm pretty new to this. I've been looking over PR 2 and it seems like you'd be able to do the program without the literature study. The literature study looks really great though. I'm so excited to start it. Now I've only watched weeks 1-3 for the literature study so far and I see her giving dictation, including vocabulary, and using a list of animals from the book to teach alphabetizing. I think you would gain a lot of the LA component from the Literature study but I could be wrong about that. I know she uses it for teaching outlining too. I just haven't seen enough of it yet to really know.

 

Personally, I don't see why you would bother using only level one and switching. I'm so glad to be done with Level 1. It's mostly all spelling/phonics instruction. PR 2 and up just have so much more meat to them. In comparison to the upper levels PR 1 just seems so boring. (Although, I'm accelerating an 11 year old who needs help with spelling, so that may be why I feel that way.)

 

If you already have your other LAs programs that you like, you may want to consider All about Spelling? The spelling portion is very similar to PR but without the markings that PR teaches.

 

I'm sorry I feel like I wasn't much help. I know Tina and others who are further into the program can give much better advice.

Edited November 5, 2010 by aquiverfull

[FairProspects]

Well, I have AAS level 1, but it is just too slow for me to feel comfortable using it for phonics. I have yet to find complete phonics instruction that will work well for ds. From long vowels on, the rules just seem to fall out of his head. :tongue_smilie:I think I probably want AAR, which won't be out until January, but I'd still like to hear more about PR.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Ok I see.. Well I know exactly how you feel. My 5 year old is ready to begin reading. In fact, just yesterday I wrote some simple sentences and she was sounding out the words reading them to me. She did great. I would also love to find something that I can use to teach her to read. I feel the same way about PR that you feel about AAS when it comes to teaching reading. I bet they are very similar in that regard.

 

The way that PR teaches phonics is to teach all 70 (aas uses 72) phonograms. Then the spelling tests begin daily. Around week 15 the simple readers start and continue until the last week (week 34). To me there is not enough instruction in teaching reading and not enough practice blending and such. I'm not sure that Pr is really any different than AAS as far as using it to teach reading. Although, I think PR 1 basically covers AAS levels 1-3, so PR will be faster. I've been patiently waiting for AAR as well. I was hoping it would be available by now.

Edited November 5, 2010 by aquiverfull

[abrightmom]

If you already have your other LAs programs that you like, you may want to consider All about Spelling? The spelling portion is very similar to PR but without the markings that PR teaches.

 

:iagree: I definitely vote that it isn't worth it AT ALL unless you want to use the entire program. As far as spelling is concerned I believe you'd get the same thing from AAS (we have used/are using Levels 1 & 2 in AAS and they're fantastic! We're slowly shifting over to PR at this point.)

[abrightmom]

To me there is not enough instruction in teaching reading and not enough practice blending and such. I'm not sure that Pr is really any different than AAS as far as using it to teach reading. Although, I think PR 1 basically covers AAS levels 1-3, so PR will be faster. I've been patiently waiting for AAR as well. I was hoping it would be available by now.

 

Hmmmm. I feel the same way about PR and it's really bugging me right now. I can honestly say that I can't see HOW you'd start this with a non-reader and end up reading . . . the pace is FAST IMHO (compared to AAS with words and phonograms introduced) and there isn't instruction in blending.

 

The methodology she is using may just be counter intuitive for me. I wish I could understand better. . .

 

As far as AAS goes the first level IS simple but I think it picks up in Level Two quite nicely. And, you can go at your own pace :001_smile:.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Hmmmm. I feel the same way about PR and it's really bugging me right now. I can honestly say that I can't see HOW you'd start this with a non-reader and end up reading . . . the pace is FAST IMHO (compared to AAS with words and phonograms introduced) and there isn't instruction in blending.

 

The methodology she is using may just be counter intuitive for me. I wish I could understand better. . .

 

As far as AAS goes the first level IS simple but I think it picks up in Level Two quite nicely. And, you can go at your own pace :001_smile:.

 

I agree! I just can't seem to see how this will teach a child reading. I've worked with my 5 year old, she knows most of the phonograms but still I'm not sure how PR teaches reading. I don't know, maybe I'm making it more complicated than it should be.

 

Since you've seen both PR and AAS, how do you feel about using AAS to teach reading? Do you think it would work out better with AAS or do you think they are about the same?

[abrightmom]

Since you've seen both PR and AAS, how do you feel about using AAS to teach reading? Do you think it would work out better with AAS or do you think they are about the same?

 

Kelli, Admittedly I LOVE AAS and I don't want to let it go. It's soooooo easy to teach and my boys have LOVED it. It's painless. Of course, it's just spelling :D. It would be slow for use in teaching to read (I think . . . ). I am so inexperienced but I think that using AAS with some other reading primer (like PP or OPGTR) is probably a good choice. I'd also do Explode the Code since that has been effective here. There is NO way I'd wait until 1st grade and then just use PR . . . unless someone can show me and prove to me that it is effective to teach reading that way.

 

Now, in PR's defense I do read lots of testimonies about kids reading level sky rocketing once they get through Level One. So, there is certainly something to the spelling your way into reading thing.

 

ETA: Maybe Tina or Linda or someone super smart :) will explain the methodology behind teaching a child to read this way (PR's way). I think learning so many phonograms all at once is HARD but I might just be too old . . . LOL.

Edited November 5, 2010 by abrightmom
a second thought

[LoveBaby]

I do think PR would be worth using just for spelling, however, I also think it will do an excellent job of covering all LA skills that are included in OPGTR, FLL and WWE, etc. For me, having it all contained in *one* program has been priceless!

 

I am using PR to teach my youngest (6yo) to spell *then* read right now and he is doing beautifully! It's actually amazing because of how much my older two struggled and struggled and so far teaching this guy has been painless. He is on his own, walking around sounding out and spelling words on paper, now he is beginning to sound out and read, spontaneously. We aren't doing any "reading" during our PR studies, just studying those phonograms and working on writing them from dictation and reciting them by sight. We generally spend about 15-30min./day working on PR. IMO, I don't think having a specific "reading" curriculum is necessary with PR, since the child hears, spells, sounds-out the word to read back and check his work everyday, blending isn't as much of an issue. He's hearing the words "blended" and writing the phonograms, saying the sounds and hearing it blended again. I have just trusted the process this time around and I am truly amazed at how reading is coming along so nicely without trying.

 

PR 1 teaches the first 51 phonograms in the first 4 weeks. I am stretching that out considerably for his K year and we will finish PR 1 during 1st grade. I found a book called "Learning at Home: Preschool and Kindergarten" that has a K Reading section that outlines the same methodology as PR but stretches the initial skills out over a longer period of time. We have been working for about 8 weeks and he is just finishing with the first 26 phonograms. He is picking it up faster though, so I think the next 25 will go a bit faster.

 

Just an encouragement that if you need an solid foundation in spelling and reading skills, then Phonics Road would be an excellent choice. Also, if you have been concerned about getting them up and reading first, I don't think that is necessary either, so put the worries to rest and just trust the process!

 

As a side note...I'm also teaching the handwriting along with PR and so far he hasn't had any trouble distinguishing between "b" and "d" or "p" and "q" because we studied very carefully that "b" is a tall letter, "d" is a short letter and they were introduced at different times. His handwriting is very good for a 6yo boy, too, IMO! And this is a boys, boys, boy...climbing, wiggling, having to be reminded every 2 seconds to sit and focus!

[abrightmom]

I do think PR would be worth using just for spelling, however, I also think it will do an excellent job of covering all LA skills that are included in OPGTR, FLL and WWE, etc. For me, having it all contained in *one* program has been priceless!

 

I am using PR to teach my youngest (6yo) to spell *then* read right now and he is doing beautifully! It's actually amazing because of how much my older two struggled and struggled and so far teaching this guy has been painless. He is on his own, walking around sounding out and spelling words on paper, now he is beginning to sound out and read, spontaneously. We aren't doing any "reading" during our PR studies, just studying those phonograms and working on writing them from dictation and reciting them by sight. We generally spend about 15-30min./day working on PR. IMO, I don't think having a specific "reading" curriculum is necessary with PR, since the child hears, spells, sounds-out the word to read back and check his work everyday, blending isn't as much of an issue. He's hearing the words "blended" and writing the phonograms, saying the sounds and hearing it blended again. I have just trusted the process this time around and I am truly amazed at how reading is coming along so nicely without trying.

 

PR 1 teaches the first 51 phonograms in the first 4 weeks. I am stretching that out considerably for his K year and we will finish PR 1 during 1st grade. I found a book called "Learning at Home: Preschool and Kindergarten" that has a K Reading section that outlines the same methodology as PR but stretches the initial skills out over a longer period of time. We have been working for about 8 weeks and he is just finishing with the first 26 phonograms. He is picking it up faster though, so I think the next 25 will go a bit faster.

 

Just an encouragement that if you need an solid foundation in spelling and reading skills, then Phonics Road would be an excellent choice. Also, if you have been concerned about getting them up and reading first, I don't think that is necessary either, so put the worries to rest and just trust the process!

 

As a side note...I'm also teaching the handwriting along with PR and so far he hasn't had any trouble distinguishing between "b" and "d" or "p" and "q" because we studied very carefully that "b" is a tall letter, "d" is a short letter and they were introduced at different times. His handwriting is very good for a 6yo boy, too, IMO! And this is a boys, boys, boy...climbing, wiggling, having to be reminded every 2 seconds to sit and focus!

:001_smile: Jesse, this is good stuff!! Thanks for sharing. I am so happy to hear how the process is unfolding! This is the first time I've read a testimony of someone using it to teach a non-reader how to read. Perhaps this will encourage the OP to give it a whirl . . . She may change her mind about the literature study. :001_smile: I was once totally opposed to it and have since changed my tune. Mrs. Beers uses them to teach many English skills! They are rich.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I'm so torn about PR. I dismissed it last year because ds couldn't write well enough. Now that writing would not be an issue, I'm re-considering it because the concept is similar to what we are doing now and it is the only thing that has worked for him. I do have some questions/reservations though.

 

1. Would it be a horrible idea to just use level 1 and then switch to something else for spelling? I don't really like the idea of literature studies that occur in the other levels. Only using PR1 will not teach all the phonograms. In fact, you'll especially miss the ones that teach the sounds that most people will use for sight words, like ough, augh, ie or ei, etc. Is there any reason in particular that you don't like the idea of the lit. studies?

 

2. Is there a way to just do the spelling parts without the literary analysis (although that would be one heck of an expensive spelling program)? Yes. The spelling is separate.

 

3. I really want to do FLL & WWE for grammar and writing. Would it even be worth it to do PR if I plan to go another direction for writing & grammar? I don't think so. The spelling is fantastic, but it would be quite pricey for a spelling program. I'd second AAS if that's the route. You might look at Apples & Pears, too (I've never seen that, but heard about it).

 

I also think PR has a little more fun to their language arts; before PR, I thought LA were doomed to boredom.

 

One of my favorite things about PR is that is connects language skills to real life. It's not an arbitrary grammar lesson or dictation for the sake of dictation. Your not pulling out the grammar book; pulling out the spelling book; pulling out the vocab. book; pulling out the writing book. It makes it easier on YOU and your student will learn about language as they encounter it. Dictation, grammar, vocabulary and copy work from the book they're reading and encountering spelling words at the same time. I found with my 3 that didn't use PR that there was a disconnect between language arts theory and lesson and language arts application. PR has clearly solved that problem and already I have 2-8yo that make the connection with no effort to do so.

 

4. I do like the idea of this program for reading & spelling, I'm just not sold on it for grammar. Can anyone compare FLL & PR as far as grammar instruction goes?

The only FLL I used was the original edition, blue book :) Then we switched to RS. For me, the application as opposed to the disconnect that I mentioned above makes it better (and plainly so). So far as content, aquiverfull is right, PR1 is mostly about phonics and spelling with a splash of grammar, but by level 2 it ramps it up. I think PR2 defeats RS2&3, to give you a comparison that would be rec. in WTM.

 

Here are the grammar applications in PR2, keep in mind there are songs to aid with memorization for many of these:

 

 

• comparative adj.

• common/proper nouns

• adj (including questions and lists that fit into the questions they answer)

• articles

• subject pronouns

• base verbs

• action verbs

• helping verbs

• building verb phrases

• object pronouns

• linking verbs

• predicate nominatives and pred. adj.

• prepositions

• possessive nouns

• possessive pronouns

• adverbs

• verb tense

• irregular verbs

• conjunctions

• grammar review

• starting in week 1, you are parsing sentences. Each time you learn a new part of speech, you'll parse sentences to apply it, all the while reviewing the other parts of speech. There's no separate review section (like RS), it's all applied together -- just like it is in the real world. Application!

 

You also hit cursive handwriting at the end of PR2. Your first application, instead of arbitrary sentences is to write a grammar review, using the definitions already learned and practiced, into cursive writing. Application, application, application.

 

The lit. study will include:

 

 

• application of the phonics learned in a chapter book of quality

• author and illustrator bios

• setting, character, plot

• fables

• summarization

• seasons, spelling of months

• illustrations of reading

• abc order

• plot

• character evaluation

• metaphor

• simile

• outlining

• summary map

• making a list for note-taking of the story

• researching what you read to find information

• commas

• semi-colons

• solving secret codes where letters equal a different letter (I cannot remember what this is called right now)

• application of adj. by learning descriptive writing

• character comparison

• loads of dictation

• paraphrase

• animal tracks, research

• family trees

• active verbage versus passive verbage

• journal writing

• recipe writing

• bee study

• vocab: words in context

• venn diagrams

• order of events

• character sketch

 

[abrightmom]

The only FLL I used was the original edition, blue book :) Then we switched to RS. For me, the application as opposed to the disconnect that I mentioned above makes it better (and plainly so). So far as content, aquiverfull is right, PR1 is mostly about phonics and spelling with a splash of grammar, but by level 2 it ramps it up. I think PR2 defeats RS2&3, to give you a comparison that would be rec. in WTM.

 

Here are the grammar applications in PR2, keep in mind there are songs to aid with memorization for many of these:

 

 

• comparative adj.

• common/proper nouns

• adj (including questions and lists that fit into the questions they answer)

• articles

• subject pronouns

• base verbs

• action verbs

• helping verbs

• building verb phrases

• object pronouns

• linking verbs

• predicate nominatives and pred. adj.

• prepositions

• possessive nouns

• possessive pronouns

• adverbs

• verb tense

• irregular verbs

• conjunctions

• grammar review

• starting in week 1, you are parsing sentences. Each time you learn a new part of speech, you'll parse sentences to apply it, all the while reviewing the other parts of speech. There's no separate review section (like RS), it's all applied together -- just like it is in the real world. Application!

 

You also hit cursive handwriting at the end of PR2. Your first application, instead of arbitrary sentences is to write a grammar review, using the definitions already learned and practiced, into cursive writing. Application, application, application.

 

The lit. study will include:

 

 

• application of the phonics learned in a chapter book of quality

• author and illustrator bios

• setting, character, plot

• fables

• summarization

• seasons, spelling of months

• illustrations of reading

• abc order

• plot

• character evaluation

• metaphor

• simile

• outlining

• summary map

• making a list for note-taking of the story

• researching what you read to find information

• commas

• semi-colons

• solving secret codes where letters equal a different letter (I cannot remember what this is called right now)

• application of adj. by learning descriptive writing

• character comparison

• loads of dictation

• paraphrase

• animal tracks, research

• family trees

• active verbage versus passive verbage

• journal writing

• recipe writing

• bee study

• vocab: words in context

• venn diagrams

• order of events

• character sketch

 

 

:001_smile: Insert superhero emoticon . . . Tina does a great job of explaining things. This is super helpful and to the point of the OP's questions.

[TracyP]

Tina, you make it sound so good! What happens if someone starts with level 2? Is it just simply impossible?

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina, you make it sound so good! What happens if someone starts with level 2? Is it just simply impossible?

If you start in level 2, you'll miss the phonetic instruction and the easing into the Rule Tunes. Not having the phoneme sound cards is a bummer, but can be remedied if you have an OG program. You can get Traub's book, Recipe for Reading, and work those sounds out, though. It's easy to get from libraries. You can also get some assistance from this board regarding any Rule Tunes...although you'll hear them all in the DVDs for level 2.

 

You'll miss some explanation of language history that is valuable, too. You can live without it, but it helps with some of the "whys" behind English spelling. Again, this board can help with that.

 

Having said that, it can be done. You'll miss a couple of references to Building Code x (BC are pages that apply spelling rules and compile lists of words from your spelling list that apply to the rule). It's really not that big of a deal, imho; although if given the choice, I'd start in one so as to build a strong spelling word base.

 

Since you have the DVDs in PR2, you'll still get teacher training.

 

PR ROCKS! It's the first language arts program I've encountered that meets my need for rigor, yet disguises itself as "ease" by making teaching and learning easy! It really is the best of all language arts worlds.

 

And PR3....it just keeps getting better and better! I really think in a few years I may open a charter school/reading center/something and use PR. I'm serious. I may start a test group in a local impoverished school and test reading results. I mean it.

[TracyP]

If you start in level 2, you'll miss the phonetic instruction and the easing into the Rule Tunes. Not having the phoneme sound cards is a bummer, but can be remedied if you have an OG program. You can get Traub's book, Recipe for Reading, and work those sounds out, though. It's easy to get from libraries. You can also get some assistance from this board regarding any Rule Tunes...although you'll hear them all in the DVDs for level 2.

 

You'll miss some explanation of language history that is valuable, too. You can live without it, but it helps with some of the "whys" behind English spelling. Again, this board can help with that.

 

Having said that, it can be done. You'll miss a couple of references to Building Code x (BC are pages that apply spelling rules and compile lists of words from your spelling list that apply to the rule). It's really not that big of a deal, imho; although if given the choice, I'd start in one so as to build a strong spelling word base.

 

Since you have the DVDs in PR2, you'll still get teacher training.

 

PR ROCKS! It's the first language arts program I've encountered that meets my need for rigor, yet disguises itself as "ease" by making teaching and learning easy! It really is the best of all language arts worlds.

 

And PR3....it just keeps getting better and better! I really think in a few years I may open a charter school/reading center/something and use PR. I'm serious. I may start a test group in a local impoverished school and test reading results. I mean it.

 

Hmmm, it's good to know it's possible - I know it isn't ideal. I have a 7 yo natural speller who is reading way above grade level. I can't see using level 1 with her. I could see buying it in the future to use with my other kids but there is no way I can fork out that kind of $$ next year.

 

I was planning on using MCT but have been rethinking that lately. Back to the PR website I go.:D This may be a silly question but having read Little House in the Big Woods 4 times won't impact its use in PR 2 will it? I know dd won't mind. Maybe I should hide it until next fall so she doesn't read it again.:lol:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Hmmm, it's good to know it's possible - I know it isn't ideal. I have a 7 yo natural speller who is reading way above grade level. I can't see using level 1 with her. I could see buying it in the future to use with my other kids but there is no way I can fork out that kind of $$ next year.

 

I was planning on using MCT but have been rethinking that lately. Back to the PR website I go.:D This may be a silly question but having read Little House in the Big Woods 4 times won't impact its use in PR 2 will it? I know dd won't mind. Maybe I should hide it until next fall so she doesn't read it again.:lol:

No, it won't. In fact, I think its great. It's nice to go back and analyze something you're already familiar with. It takes the labor out of the reading and makes it moreso about analysis. Good stuff!

[abrightmom]

This may be a silly question but having read Little House in the Big Woods 4 times won't impact its use in PR 2 will it? I know dd won't mind. Maybe I should hide it until next fall so she doesn't read it again.:lol:

 

I say that it won't affect it because you can view the LHintheBW :D as a TOOL to learn and apply English skills rather than as a reader. You don't end up reading very many pages each week anyway so that wouldn't suffice for "reading" if that makes sense. :001_smile:

[TracyP]

No, it won't. In fact, I think its great. It's nice to go back and analyze something you're already familiar with. It takes the labor out of the reading and makes it moreso about analysis. Good stuff!

 

I say that it won't affect it because you can view the LHintheBW :D as a TOOL to learn and apply English skills rather than as a reader. You don't end up reading very many pages each week anyway so that wouldn't suffice for "reading" if that makes sense. :001_smile:

 

Thanks ladies!

[MerryAtHope]

Well, I have AAS level 1, but it is just too slow for me to feel comfortable using it for phonics. I have yet to find complete phonics instruction that will work well for ds. From long vowels on, the rules just seem to fall out of his head. :tongue_smilie:I think I probably want AAR, which won't be out until January, but I'd still like to hear more about PR.

 

If you wanted to use AAS for teaching reading, you probably want to work at two places in the program--one for reading and one for spelling. For reading, you would teach the concept, use the tiles to demonstrate, and then use the word cards for reading practice. You can also use the dictation sentences for reading practice (if the print is too small you might want to rewrite them on the white board or type them in a larger font). Then you would go to the readers.

 

Later on you would use the full lesson for spelling and have your child spell all of the words and write all of the dictations etc...

 

Merry :-)