johnandtinagilbert Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 What's it like? What kind of kidddo would enjoy this? Ages and stages? Cost? Pros and cons? I see this mentioned a good bit, so I'm wondering what's the scoop!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 We have been using AoPS and love it. It is a great fit for our kids. Have a look at their website: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com to see sequence of books, age range, and prices. There are also online courses which we have not used. It is a math program that begins with Introduction to Algebra and leads to calculus, but is covers also areas not typically in the traditional sequence, probability and number theory. AoPS is wonderful for kids who enjoy math and are good at it. The material in the books I have used goes beyond the scope and difficulty of traditional math textbooks. The most distinctive feature is how the material is presented: the students are given problems to solve before anything is explained, they work on the problems, discover relationships and solutions and then go on to read the explanations, see the problems solved and the concepts explained. The exercises are plenty to master the concepts; however, all the problems are slightly different so that pure drill of procedure is not sufficient, the student has to think how to apply the concept to this particular problem. It is not a spiral approach; each topic is thoroughly covered before moving on to the next subject. One feature which completely sets this program apart from every other math book I have seen is the JOY. You notice in every page that the author is excited about math, thinks it is tremendous fun and projects this attitude to the student. Math is not portrayed as something useful but dry, but rather as something exciting and thrilling that one can play with. (Does anyone else have their teenage daughters shriek with delight when they discover that the new math book had come in the mail?) As much as we love AoPS, it is not a program for anyone. It needs a strong motivated student - so I would not use it with a child that does not like math or is struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Regentrude gave you a good synopsis. My kids used AoPS materials and online courses for many, many years (since the school opened in 2001), starting when they were middle school age. It was a good fit for them because not only because they were good at math, but also because they loved spending a lot of time on challenging problems. It's their idea of *fun* learning. The online classes move very fast btw. I'd recommend either getting your first taste of AoPS through the texts, or trying an online class when you have a lot of time or a free summer. Mine handled the online format fine after they were 13 or 14; before that they would have had trouble thinking & typing fast enough to feel that they were keeping up with everyone. They loved it so much that they both have worked part-time for AoPS as TAs and graders now. In addition, they made a lot of friends through the online forums, games, and blogs over the years. While it's not a "who should use AoPS" talk, the founder of AoPS, Richard Rusczyk, presents some of his ideas on math education in this video lecture "Problem Solving: A 21st Century Education." (I was lucky enough to be there and talk to him in person that day; he's a great guy who stayed after the talk to speak with a huge line of interested parents and teachers.) In particular, watch for his "tyranny of the 100 per cent" comments. Lots of good math students in easy curricula get hooked on being perfect. What they really need is to be stretched with harder problems to make them think. He has a knack for doing this in a joyful way :). He also gives his ideas on gifted math students racing through the standard curriculum in his article on the Calculus Trap. AoPS has curricula on number theory and counting & probability that are really worthwhile for kids who are ahead of the game and have the time. These fields are just as much a part of math as the standard algebra, geometry, calculus. My daughter is glad she found them - they're her passion now in college. Also, I'd recommend attending or reading the transcripts of one of the AoPS free "math jams" online. They regularly offer sessions which give an overview and taste of upcoming classes. For the textbooks, look at the sample pages that are posted on the web site. ~Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca VA Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 It didn't work out for my child. I enrolled her in Algebra I at the end of her 6th grade year. She had done well in Pre-Algebra, and I wanted to stretch her thinking. She had difficulties almost from the beginning, and we had to drop the course. I then switched her over to Foerster's Algebra I using the Math Without Borders teaching CD-ROM. That went really well. I think the reason she had difficulties is because she needed to be carefully taught the material, step by step. Her brain needed time to absorb it. (She processes information a little more slowly than most people.) I've tried throwing verbal math problems out at her quickly, and she's like a deer in the headlights -- but she can do the same math problems on paper flawlessly. So the challenging, fast-paced format of AoPS was just wrong for her. The staff at AoPS were very kind about refunding our money. I would not hesitate to recommend the courses to kids who really desire that sort of challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Not much more to add except that AoPS is working on a prealgebra book. For younger children, they recommend Dr. Wright's Kitchen Table Math series for younger children. I would have loved that for my kids. Also, Richard Rusczyk's free short video talks about math are fabulous. He is able to explain complex ideas elegantly. My husband has a math background, and he enjoys watching them! If you want to check out what they offer, here is their website: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 One feature which completely sets this program apart from every other math book I have seen is the JOY. You notice in every page that the author is excited about math, thinks it is tremendous fun and projects this attitude to the student. Math is not portrayed as something useful but dry, but rather as something exciting and thrilling that one can play with. In total agreement here. I enjoy reading the book just for those moments when the authors go "Look at this! Isn't this cool!" My son is really enjoying those classes (he's now in Algebra 2). He's my math kid, was always fascinated with numbers. I am considering trying it with my daughter, who's absolutely non-mathy. I would go through the book with her, and then register her for the online class. I would not drop her into a class unprepared, she would not be able to keep the pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 I thank you all so much! My son loves math, but is a slllooooow turtle in working. I think he would enjoy the approach, but the speed may be an issue. I am also going to check out those links. I want to give him a little extra umph in his math as I see him entering math fields (engineering), so I want him to have a WOW factor in high school math! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I think he would enjoy the approach, but the speed may be an issue. then just have him go with the textbook so he can go at his speed. We are not using the online class, we only use the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 then just have him go with the textbook so he can go at his speed. We are not using the online class, we only use the books. so, you think the intensity is problem related and not necessarily speed related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 so, you think the intensity is problem related and not necessarily speed related? the intensity of the online class may have to do with the speed - but the intensity and challenge of the textbook is due to the way it is presented: they make you THINK. It is not for kids who just want to learn a procedure and be done with math - you get to think, solve puzzles. Basically every challenge problem is a hard puzzle. but you can go slowly if you want and take your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 the intensity of the online class may have to do with the speed - but the intensity and challenge of the textbook is due to the way it is presented: they make you THINK. It is not for kids who just want to learn a procedure and be done with math - you get to think, solve puzzles. Basically every challenge problem is a hard puzzle.but you can go slowly if you want and take your time. I think ds, and surely dd would like this. Thank you for the clarification. I'm gonna have to spend some time on the website and forum...gosh, I may not be able to do the problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 ...gosh, I may not be able to do the problems! Don't worry, I'm not able to either! The one good thing about registering for a class though is that your child may ask for help online, in a specific forum set up just for that class. So when the whole family is stumped, you have someone you can turn to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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