This may be in the lectures

[razorbackmama]

But I haven't had the time recently to relisten to them, so I thought I'd call on the Hive to see if anyone remembers.:D

 

In SWB's writing lectures, is she assuming that there has been actual WRITING INSTRUCTION? For example, what is a paragraph, how to use your outline to come up with your own thoughts, how to revise your writing, etc.?

 

I had originally intended to just use her ideas, but I'm thinking they may not be concrete enough for our needs. So I have been contemplating getting IEW just because it does more hand-holding.

 

Do y'all think it would be possible to use IEW AND the principles in SWB's lectures?:confused:

[Annabel Lee]

I've wondered the same thing myself, and I also wonder if WWE 5 will be the answer to all of that. If you're using R&S for grammar, then there's just enough actual writing instruction to familiarize yourself & your kiddo w/ the "rules" of writing (paragraphs, etc.).

 

After taking a peek at nestof3's blog, I decided to implement some simple Evan-Moor Daily 6-Trait Writing Practice and Evan-Moor Writing Fabulous Paragraphs & Sentences (which is for 4th to 6th gr., there are other titles in this series for youngers). The 6-Trait writing is a little like the 6-sentence shuffle in IEW, I've heard. I'm not having my guys do any writing assignments about random topics; I'm using the books more for ME to know precisely what to teach them and I plug in the content from history, science, or literature. These books also include the various types of paragraphs - descriptive, narrative, persuasive, etc. I need that hand-holding with the finer details, too, and this seems to be an inexpensive solution.

 

Concepts from the EM books are implemented into our writing for hist, sci, and lit as I described, with a very short "writing instruction lesson" in the a.m. as part of LA, then application of it in the afternoon during the content subject. We're continuing w/ WWE & WT with the thought of *maybe* going to CW or IEW after WT if I still feel shaky about just doing it the WTM way (and as described in the lectures). I love the philosophy behind SWB's writing plan, and the simplicity of it (if I could implement it easily) is a huge draw over something like CW, for me. ...In case it helps to see where I'm going w/ this. If not, just ignore. :)

[5LittleMonkeys]

Same wondering going on here. I have been using her methods as just that...methods or maybe philosophy would be a better term. I follow her example in that our writing is incorporated into our other subjects and I don't require original content or creative writing. Although my dc do some creative writing during their free time. However, my dc were having trouble making the leap from writing a sentence to compiling a well laid out paragraph even after using other written works as a model. I use the instruction in R&S and I have also been incorporating the information in the 6-Trait Writing workbook. I have no intention of using only her methods all the way through highschool and I would say that since she is continuing to publish writing curricula she will eventually fill the need of additional instruction for all the grade levels. Even WWE is more thorough and involved than what she prescribes in her lectures.

 

So, in answer to your question, yes, I believe you can and should be using some additional instruction for your dc as they gain skill in writing. If you need a program to do that then I don't see how that would be detrimental unless your dc do not have the foundation they need in order to complete the skills required in the program.

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, guys!

 

We use Analytical Grammar rather than R&S, so nope, no other writing covering the "basics."

[Sebastian (a lady)]

But I haven't had the time recently to relisten to them, so I thought I'd call on the Hive to see if anyone remembers.:D

 

In SWB's writing lectures, is she assuming that there has been actual WRITING INSTRUCTION? For example, what is a paragraph, how to use your outline to come up with your own thoughts, how to revise your writing, etc.?

 

I had originally intended to just use her ideas, but I'm thinking they may not be concrete enough for our needs. So I have been contemplating getting IEW just because it does more hand-holding.

 

Do y'all think it would be possible to use IEW AND the principles in SWB's lectures?:confused:

 

Well, we're in the beta testing for Writing with Skill and there is definitely overt instruction in outline writing and summarizing in there. I'm guessing that there will be lessons later on that take an outline and have the students write from it.

 

We're using WWE and FLL for my youngest and there is instruction there on narration and summarizing, which then becomes paragraph writing. I like WWE and I REALLY like what I've seen so far of WWS.

[razorbackmama]

Well, we're in the beta testing for Writing with Skill and there is definitely overt instruction in outline writing and summarizing in there. I'm guessing that there will be lessons later on that take an outline and have the students write from it.

 

We're using WWE and FLL for my youngest and there is instruction there on narration and summarizing, which then becomes paragraph writing. I like WWE and I REALLY like what I've seen so far of WWS.

 

Thanks!

 

My older 3 are in the last unit of WWE4, so we're there on narration/summarizing. I guess I haven't really translated that to formal "paragraph writing" yet, but it makes sense that I should go ahead and explain that that's really what they are doing.

 

I'm just bummed that WWS won't be out in time for them! They are in 8th, 6th, and 5th, so I can't really wait around either.:lol:

[bethben]

In SWB's writing lectures, is she assuming that there has been actual WRITING INSTRUCTION? For example, what is a paragraph, how to use your outline to come up with your own thoughts, how to revise your writing, etc.?

 

I had originally intended to just use her ideas, but I'm thinking they may not be concrete enough for our needs. So I have been contemplating getting IEW just because it does more hand-holding.

 

Do y'all think it would be possible to use IEW AND the principles in SWB's lectures?:confused:

 

I am in the same situation. I need a bit more writing instruction and instruction in revising your writing. I like IEW to a point and I see the value in SWB's outlines. I don't like key word outlines in IEW and need more instruction in revision with SWB. What makes sense to me is IEW for the basics in paragraph writing and dress-ups but when you get to units with more substance (story summary, longer reports) use SWB outline format with dress ups. For example, IEW unit 3 (I think) is about re-writing a story. Instead of all the Key Word Outline chicken scratch, outline the whole thing per SWB and write it out that way using all the dress ups recommended for the unit. It just makes more sense to me overall. How's that for confusing! Let's just all make a new curriculum: IEWSWB!!!

 

Beth

[razorbackmama]

I am in the same situation. I need a bit more writing instruction and instruction in revising your writing. I like IEW to a point and I see the value in SWB's outlines. I don't like key word outlines in IEW and need more instruction in revision with SWB. What makes sense to me is IEW for the basics in paragraph writing and dress-ups but when you get to units with more substance (story summary, longer reports) use SWB outline format with dress ups. For example, IEW unit 3 (I think) is about re-writing a story. Instead of all the Key Word Outline chicken scratch, outline the whole thing per SWB and write it out that way using all the dress ups recommended for the unit. It just makes more sense to me overall. How's that for confusing! Let's just all make a new curriculum: IEWSWB!!!

 

Beth

 

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you maybe just helped me quite a bit!

 

I had been considering getting the SWI, but if I did that, my kids would learn the key word outline, right? Hmmmmmm. I wonder if I just got the TWSS and taught them myself, then I could kind of create my own IEWSWB and teach SWB's outlining.... But the videos are so appealing and will be a major time saver. Ack.:tongue_smilie:

 

So what is it that you do, Beth?

[bethben]

I don't do this, but I've been thinking a lot:glare:. I asked about the IEW "super essay" to the yahoo group and if it used key word outlines. It does. I KNOW by the time my child gets to that point that he would forget what he intended to say with 4-5 words per point. This is where the SWB outline makes more sense to me. I had ds do a 2-3 level outline with 3 paragraphs (only once so far) and use one dress up in the paper (the which clause). This is what I got from my 4th grader:

 

After World War I, Germany wasn’t a nice place to be. The Allies were demanding major war payments and money became worthless because of inflation. For instance, a loaf of bread that cost 1 mark , which is similar to a dollar, became 100 billion marks in 1923! Unemployment was high and Germany suffered because of it.

The Nazis tried to overthrow the government in 1923. Nazis stand for National Socialist German Workers party. The head of the Nazis, was a man named Adolf Hitler. Because he tried to overthrow the government, he was put in jail. When he was in jail, he wrote a book called “Mein Kamf” or “My Struggle”. In the book it said Germans were a master race and all other races were inferior.

In 1928 the Germans won positions in Germany’s legislature. It helped Hitler eventually control Germany. As you can see, Germany wasn’t the best place to be after the war.

 

 

I am thinking about buying IEW TWSS and just using it as a starting point. It may give me the ways to improve the writing but I don't plan on doing it as is.

 

 

Beth

Edited October 14, 2010 by bethben
spaces

[razorbackmama]

I don't do this, but I've been thinking a lot:glare:. I asked about the IEW "super essay" to the yahoo group and if it used key word outlines. It does. I KNOW by the time my child gets to that point that he would forget what he intended to say with 4-5 words per point. This is where the SWB outline makes more sense to me. I had ds do a 2-3 level outline with 3 paragraphs (only once so far) and use one dress up in the paper (the which clause). This is what I got from my 4th grader:

 

After World War I, Germany wasn’t a nice place to be. The Allies were demanding major war payments and money became worthless because of inflation. For instance, a loaf of bread that cost 1 mark , which is similar to a dollar, became 100 billion marks in 1923! Unemployment was high and Germany suffered because of it.

The Nazis tried to overthrow the government in 1923. Nazis stand for National Socialist German Workers party. The head of the Nazis, was a man named Adolf Hitler. Because he tried to overthrow the government, he was put in jail. When he was in jail, he wrote a book called “Mein Kamf†or “My Struggleâ€. In the book it said Germans were a master race and all other races were inferior.

In 1928 the Germans won positions in Germany’s legislature. It helped Hitler eventually control Germany. As you can see, Germany wasn’t the best place to be after the war.

 

 

I am thinking about buying IEW TWSS and just using it as a starting point. It may give me the ways to improve the writing but I don't plan on doing it as is.

 

 

Beth

 

Thanks, Beth! I REALLY REALLY like that idea.

[Colleen in NS]

In SWB's writing lectures, is she assuming that there has been actual WRITING INSTRUCTION? For example, what is a paragraph, how to use your outline to come up with your own thoughts, how to revise your writing, etc.?

 

I'm guessing the answer is yes. Here's why:

 

My older 3 are in the last unit of WWE4, so we're there on narration/summarizing. I guess I haven't really translated that to formal "paragraph writing" yet, but it makes sense that I should go ahead and explain that that's really what they are doing.

 

In my WWE text in level 4, weeks 11-19, it says that dictation exercises will take the form of paragraphs and that you will introduce the student to the form of a paragraph and explain that a paragraph is organized around a single idea. Then on p. 179 where instructions for the day two dictation are given, it specifically shows you how to teach about paragraphs. It's simple, it's short, but it's there. There are reminders, too, in subsequent dictation exercises throughout most of the rest of level 4.

 

I haven't gotten to letting my son have a go at rewriting from his outlines yet (I want him to have a bit more practice at analyzing and organizing his outlines). But I am guessing, now that he knows in general what a paragraph is (a group of sentences that express a complete thought, and has the first line indented), and because his outlines are complete-sentence outlines (the thoughts of which are derived from the new WTM outline questions), that this will all translate fairly smoothly into paragraphs that reflect one supported main idea, in his own words. It might have been in the previous Writing Without Fear audio that I heard this, but I think SWB basically said that after your student is comfortable with outlining with complete sentences, you can have him try rewriting from it, and let him compare his rewrite to the original writing - see how close he came to reproducing the author's ideas.

 

And then there is her whole idea of using diagraming as an editing tool. This, to me, falls under revising after the rewrite. We've used this several times in the past year here, for narrations. It has worked just as she said it would. Further deep-thinking-about-paragraphs/revising, I am also guessing, will be taught in high school if the student does the recommended rhetoric study or something similar to it.

 

So, to answer your original question, I think it's that she assumes you will be incorporating the paragraph teaching in WWE 4, the complete-sentence outlining that she talks about (audios or WTM, can't remember) the diagraming for revising, and the rhetoric study later on.

 

hth

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, Colleen! I did miss that little short bit about the paragraphs. Thanks!

 

Another thing I wonder about is style. That's not exactly the word I'm looking for, but what I mean are things like using stronger, more descriptive words, varying the sentence length, varying the sentence patterns, etc. I know SWB hates IEW's style stuff, but that's sort of what my kids need and what I would need help teaching. It's intuitive to me, so I do it naturally and don't know how to teach it. It's NOT intuitive to them, particularly my one student who has an expressive language disorder.:tongue_smilie: Revising with diagramming would be helpful in finding a poorly constructed sentence, but what about the other sort of things I mentioned? Does she talk about that? Or is it assumed that since a child is exposed to great literature, they will automatically use a wide variety of words/sentence patterns?

[Capt_Uhura]

Bethben - Your DS did a great job! Where did the outline come from? Was he outlining from his head based on prior reading or was he outlining from one source?

[Colleen in NS]

Thanks, Colleen! I did miss that little short bit about the paragraphs. Thanks!

 

Another thing I wonder about is style. That's not exactly the word I'm looking for, but what I mean are things like using stronger, more descriptive words, varying the sentence length, varying the sentence patterns, etc. I know SWB hates IEW's style stuff, but that's sort of what my kids need and what I would need help teaching. It's intuitive to me, so I do it naturally and don't know how to teach it. It's NOT intuitive to them, particularly my one student who has an expressive language disorder.:tongue_smilie: Revising with diagramming would be helpful in finding a poorly constructed sentence, but what about the other sort of things I mentioned? Does she talk about that? Or is it assumed that since a child is exposed to great literature, they will automatically use a wide variety of words/sentence patterns?

 

From what we've done so far, diagraming has helped not just to fix a poorly constructed sentence, but it has forced ds to *really* think about what he means to say. And then he changes it to be grammatically correct, but at the same time usually comes out with a great sentence.

 

About more descriptive words - for us, this is where R&S grammar instruction comes in handy, as well as plain old good reading and filling their minds with good words and sentences that they can recall as they write. Sentence patterns/lengths - all this is taught in R&S grammar - so here, it gets incorporated. Because of lots of reading, my son generally writes descriptive words and varied types of sentences. But for awhile there in grade 5 or 6 with narrations, he made many of the same types of sentences, so I just would go over his narration with him and ask him how he could vary the patterns - some longer, some shorter, combine here and there, do this type of sentence, try that type, etc..

 

I'm typing in a rush now, but I hope this makes sense. Basically, I incorporate my kids' grammar learning into their paragraph writing.

[Capt_Uhura]

Colleen - Thanks for your post! We're starting WWE4 and it's good to have that heads up so I can be prepared.

[bethben]

Bethben - Your DS did a great job! Where did the outline come from? Was he outlining from his head based on prior reading or was he outlining from one source?

Ds outlined three paragraphs (ala SWB) from a book he was reading for his TOG week. I thought he could do more than a one level. He did a two level outline (find the main point of the paragraph, then a few details related to the main point) and wrote his paper from that. I had him do only one IEW dress up.

 

I like IEW with the structure it gives and the way to improve papers. Ds took a co-op IEW class and just naturally uses some dress ups which I guess is the whole point of the program. I am NOT a person who would know how to improve his papers - I'm a math person - so I need some sort of help. Ds is also a math person, so he needs some sort of structure. So, hopefully, a blend of the two - IEWSWB- will work.

 

Beth

[razorbackmama]

From what we've done so far, diagraming has helped not just to fix a poorly constructed sentence, but it has forced ds to *really* think about what he means to say. And then he changes it to be grammatically correct, but at the same time usually comes out with a great sentence.

 

About more descriptive words - for us, this is where R&S grammar instruction comes in handy, as well as plain old good reading and filling their minds with good words and sentences that they can recall as they write. Sentence patterns/lengths - all this is taught in R&S grammar - so here, it gets incorporated. Because of lots of reading, my son generally writes descriptive words and varied types of sentences. But for awhile there in grade 5 or 6 with narrations, he made many of the same types of sentences, so I just would go over his narration with him and ask him how he could vary the patterns - some longer, some shorter, combine here and there, do this type of sentence, try that type, etc..

 

I'm typing in a rush now, but I hope this makes sense. Basically, I incorporate my kids' grammar learning into their paragraph writing.

 

Thanks, Colleen! R&S isn't an option here, but maybe once we get to the sections of Analytical Grammar that talk about different sentence patterns I could incorporate that. Reading great books wouldn't help us because of the language problems we have. That's one reason I was leaning toward IEW - the extremely specific hand-holding it would provide for my kids. They could produce very grammatically correct, but very BORING, sentences on their own.:tongue_smilie:

 

Ugh. Maybe I can look at my friend's TWSS to see if it would be something I could go through on my own and then combine with SWB's method. I prefer her method, but I don't think it's specific enough for my kids. Maybe once her books come out it will be, but that will be too late.

Edited October 14, 2010 by razorbackmama

[~Jo]

This is what we're doing...so far...everything is subject to change, right???:D

 

We started with IEW. I like how it helps them pull just a few words in the KWO BUT I want them to be able to go back and write from their outlines at a later date and I don't see that happening with KWO and my dc. ;)

 

In the last month I think I have listened to almost all of SWB audio lectures. (I still have the Writing for Elementary Years and High School to listen to but listened to the one for Middle grade and also the first one I think called Writing without Fear.) Anyways.....my head is so full it is leaking out my ears.

 

One thing I do remember...SWB does not like the dress-ups and my dc hated them....so we ditched the dress-ups. She said that she would prefer a child to develop their own style. Also my dd likes to do the creative writing but my son would rather have us pluck his eyeballs out. SWB says that creative writing is not necessary for each child but expository writing is.

 

So I have the newest version of WTM and we are going through her outlining section. They love it. I believe their prior use of IEW has helped them to outline like this - looking for key thoughts/main ideas (plus the Q's in the book that she tells you to use). They really like doing this. When they get really good at this then I will have them write from their outlines. Not sure when that will be for my dd but I'm hoping my ds (9th) will be doing that in about a month. I really don't think it will take him that long.

 

The one thing that I really like about SWB outlining is that you use complete sentences. Technically they could put it together and make a paragraph easily from their outline...might have to add a few connectors, etc. but from a 3 Level I think it would be really easy.

[ABQmom]

This is a great discussion. I too have been struggling with how to teach structure and better word choice--strong verbs, etc. if I use only Susan's methods.

 

Before I got the writing audios, I borrowed a friend's TWSS and watched the DVD's. I then bought SWI-B for my older 2 dd's. SWI helped them understand how to chose strong verbs and adjectives and how to vary the sentence structure. I didn't want to continue with it, however, because the more we did of that kind of thing, the more strained the girls' writing became. They complained that their writing sounded forced and almost stupid sounding. I had to agree.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like we gleaned from SWI. I bought the TWSS teaching notebook ($25) to have as a reference. Certain things I like, but too much of it hasn't been good for us. I don't know, but I think you could glean something from IEW and combine it with SWB's methods. Just my experience as disjointed as it may be!

[~Jo]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like we gleaned from SWI. I bought the TWSS teaching notebook ($25) to have as a reference. Certain things I like, but too much of it hasn't been good for us. I don't know, but I think you could glean something from IEW and combine it with SWB's methods. Just my experience as disjointed as it may be!

 

Exactly! Then they would actually develop their own style. They could use the instruction for adding the dress-ups but then not be required to add them to every paragraph. But when they are doing a re-write they could add in one here and there to make their writing better. I really do like how IEW teaches the dress-ups to the dc...and that I don't have to explain it :D He makes it very easy to understand how to do that...but then once they've practiced it then not to make them add it to every paragraph.

[razorbackmama]

This is a great discussion. I too have been struggling with how to teach structure and better word choice--strong verbs, etc. if I use only Susan's methods.

 

Before I got the writing audios, I borrowed a friend's TWSS and watched the DVD's. I then bought SWI-B for my older 2 dd's. SWI helped them understand how to chose strong verbs and adjectives and how to vary the sentence structure. I didn't want to continue with it, however, because the more we did of that kind of thing, the more strained the girls' writing became. They complained that their writing sounded forced and almost stupid sounding. I had to agree.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel like we gleaned from SWI. I bought the TWSS teaching notebook ($25) to have as a reference. Certain things I like, but too much of it hasn't been good for us. I don't know, but I think you could glean something from IEW and combine it with SWB's methods. Just my experience as disjointed as it may be!

Yes, this helps a lot!

 

So...this teaching notebook...I can just buy it by itself????

 

I think a rubric is another thing I'm really needing. I like the checklist sort of thing just as a reminder for the kids.

 

I think what I'm leaning toward is getting TWSS so I can learn the different teaching suggestions for the dress-ups, but then *I* would be the one in control of how to teach them to use them.

 

Another thing I'm wondering about is the high school level stuff. Granted, I've never even looked at the things SWB recommends for high school, but I'm wondering if it's as user-friendly as IEW.

[Colleen in NS]

Colleen - Thanks for your post! We're starting WWE4 and it's good to have that heads up so I can be prepared.

 

You're welcome. I just actually discovered this little bit in WWE 4 a few weeks ago.

 

Thanks, Colleen! R&S isn't an option here, but maybe once we get to the sections of Analytical Grammar that talk about different sentence patterns I could incorporate that. Reading great books wouldn't help us because of the language problems we have. That's one reason I was leaning toward IEW - the extremely specific hand-holding it would provide for my kids. They could produce very grammatically correct, but very BORING, sentences on their own.:tongue_smilie:

 

I was typing in too much of a rush :D - I really just meant that R&S was helpful to *us* in incorporating grammar into writing - I assumed the grammar teaching of other grammar books can be incorporated too. Sorry about being unclear!

 

And I'm sorry I don't know anything about the language issues you mention. I can see why you are looking at more handholding programs.

 

Another thing I'm wondering about is the high school level stuff. Granted, I've never even looked at the things SWB recommends for high school, but I'm wondering if it's as user-friendly as IEW.

 

Basically, kids generally have to be comfortable with outlining and rewriting from those outlines before they could go into the high school rhetoric study she recommends. This is because they basically will take each rhetoric book in turn, outline the material, and do exercises based on that material. Susan lays out how to study each of four books (and says that many students may only get through two or three), but that study requires self-study skills (reading and outlining). She does give a study pattern, but the student has to be able to use it. (I just said the same thing twice in different ways, didn't I - LOL - I'm typing quickly again as my thoughts tumble out). So, you might want to see if you can find copies of those books, listen to her study plan again, and decide if you want to supervise that study or find something else to teach with.

[ABQmom]

Yes, this helps a lot!

 

So...this teaching notebook...I can just buy it by itself????

 

I think a rubric is another thing I'm really needing. I like the checklist sort of thing just as a reminder for the kids.

 

I think what I'm leaning toward is getting TWSS so I can learn the different teaching suggestions for the dress-ups, but then *I* would be the one in control of how to teach them to use them.

 

Another thing I'm wondering about is the high school level stuff. Granted, I've never even looked at the things SWB recommends for high school, but I'm wondering if it's as user-friendly as IEW.

 

I wonder about user-friendliness of the stuff she recommends too. I think that is why IEW holds such wide appeal. It is so easy to use.

 

Yes, you can buy just the notebook that goes with the TWSS. Now, how much you would glean from just it without ever having seen the DVD's, I don't know. There is quite a bit of info in there--notes, explanations, adverb list, check lists, sample paragraphs and stories to work from--it's all what Pudewa goes over in the teaching DVD's. Since I've seen the DVD's, it's all I feel like I need to help me remember what was taught, and it's much cheaper!

[bethben]

I don't recommend the notebook without the DVDs. The notebook is written like you would write scattered notes. I appreciate a good TM and the IEW notebook is not something one could following without watching the seminars. I think the way I'm going to really be able to do this program well with my adaptations is to make my own TM from the DVDs. I have a hard time following the notebook. That one needed a good editor!

 

Beth

Edited October 15, 2010 by bethben
.

[Annabel Lee]

Another thing I'm wondering about is the high school level stuff. Granted, I've never even looked at the things SWB recommends for high school, but I'm wondering if it's as user-friendly as IEW.

 

In TWTM, if you don't want to "go it alone" w/o a formal writing program, IEW is one of her recommendations listed for both high school writing and rhetoric. There is a specific program from IEW that fulfills the rhetoric course(s).

[razorbackmama]

In TWTM, if you don't want to "go it alone" w/o a formal writing program, IEW is one of her recommendations listed for both high school writing and rhetoric. There is a specific program from IEW that fulfills the rhetoric course(s).

I was JUST looking at that last night!

 

Honestly, with one of my kids, we MIGHT get to rhetoric studies, but if not, that is not a problem. I just want the basics of writing done with him.

 

I think what my plan is (as of this particular moment - it may change in an hour:lol:) is to get the full TWSS and use it as a guide for teaching but to change the things I want to change - namely the KWO and all the dress-ups that TWSS wants in EVERY paragraph. I like that they TEACH the dress-ups, since those things don't come naturally to my kids, but I don't want them FORCED. Then I'll teach SWB's outlining stuff and use her overall philosophy for writing.

 

I think.:lol:

[razorbackmama]

I just finished relistening to the lectures. I've come up with a plan, I think.:D

 

One thing she mentioned is that during the middle grades they are simply developing the skill of outlining and writing from an outline. High school is when to work on the style. So that's when I'll focus on the stronger words, etc. She suggests using IEW without the forced style stuff as an alternative to the self-study, which she says can be done by really good writers. We do not have that here. So I'll have him do all writing a la SWB through the middle grades and then do a year or two of IEW and then move onto their progymnasmata curriculum.

 

One thing I'm still wondering about though is the revising...should I have them revise their written narrations, literary essays, and eventually their writing from outlines? She doesn't really address the concept of a first draft, editing, revising, proofreading, final draft.:confused:

[Annabel Lee]

Well, if your kids are like mine, you want to minimize the overall amount of rewriting something as much as possible to prevent frustration. Unless, the editing/rewriting is the whole writing lesson for the day.

 

In very lightly having read a tiny bit from teachers of IEW-based classes, I've gathered that they start out teaching 1 skill at a time and then grade based on use of that skill only. I'm assuming this is after introducing basic things such as indenting, how many sentences minimum are expected, etc. They work on that 1 skill until it is mastered, and then add on the next skill (they don't drop the 1st one).

[razorbackmama]

In very lightly having read a tiny bit from teachers of IEW-based classes, I've gathered that they start out teaching 1 skill at a time and then grade based on use of that skill only. I'm assuming this is after introducing basic things such as indenting, how many sentences minimum are expected, etc. They work on that 1 skill until it is mastered, and then add on the next skill (they don't drop the 1st one).

 

Yes. I'm mostly talking about stuff like complete sentences, correct spelling, etc.