SAT subject tests

[Miss Marple]

OK, this is a new one for me. Dss take the ACT and SAT. We haven't done AP courses (instead we do concurrent courses at the university) so they haven't taken any AP tests. But I'm wondering about the SAT subject tests (are these known as the SAT 2's?)

 

Do students take these after completing a regular high school level course of study or is it for honors/advanced courses? I've read that it is just a further check of proficiency in a subject. Some of the colleges we've looked at ask for a couple of SAT subject tests. Are some subject tests better to take than others? Are there study guides for each test?

 

Wading into new waters here :001_huh:

[DebbS]

:bigear:

[Brenda in MA]

Do students take these after completing a regular high school level course of study or is it for honors/advanced courses? I've read that it is just a further check of proficiency in a subject. Some of the colleges we've looked at ask for a couple of SAT subject tests. Are some subject tests better to take than others? Are there study guides for each test?

 

Wading into new waters here :001_huh:

 

Cynthia,

 

The College Board website says that the SAT2 exams are designed to be taken after a 1-year introductory high school level course. From our experiences with SAT2s (Math Level 2, Chemistry, & Physics), they are very broad in content -- lots of topics are covered. For example, the Physics exam focuses on the main areas of Physics, but there are usually a few questions on the more obscure topics, like nuclear physics. There are guide books available from many different publishers. However, the ones from the College Board with practice tests will give you the best idea of what types of questions will be on the test. Your library should have these guidebooks if you want to take a look before shelling out the $$$ for your own copy.

 

Even though the tests are supposed to be designed to test the knowledge learned in a 1-year basic course, it seems that a lot of the kids taking these exams are doing so after taking AP Chem or AP Physics. That means that a student with only 1 course under his belt would be at a disadvantage when compared to a lot of the other test takers.

 

In my son's experience, a 1-semester CC Chemistry course covered less material, but more deeply, than what was on the SAT2 Chem test. So if you hope to have your sons take an SAT2 after taking a CC course, check their syllabus carefully to make sure the CC course will cover enough of the content on the SAT2.

 

To give you an example of what depth/breadth of material is covered, I'll talk about Physics, since that was my son's most recent exam. He took the SAT2 test after completing Giancoli Physics (a typical AP Physics B text). He did the entire Giancoli book, all 40 something chapters and covered all the topics on the SAT2. The Giancoli book was probably overkill as far as the level of math covered, but it covered all the topics on the SAT2. I just used Conceptual Physics last year with my younger son. I think that if we had covered the entire book, we would have hit all the SAT2 topics, but he would have needed a bit more math-focus than what is in Hewitt to do well on the SAT2.

 

For the math exam, a solid background in Pre-Calc and a good review of all the topics should be enough to get a good SAT2 score on the Math Level 2 exam. The curve on the Level 2 exam is supposed to be more generous, so it's the better choice if your student has taken Pre-Calc.

 

We don't have any experience with the Literature or History SAT2s, maybe someone else can add in his/her experience there.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[AngieW in Texas]

We haven't done any AP so far.

 

My oldest hasn't taken any SATII tests and probably won't. The only one I can see her possibly taking is Math level 2.

 

My middle dd took the US History SAT-II test back in June. She was extremely nervous about it. It was her first-ever testing situation where I wasn't the proctor. She did reasonably well on the test, but was sure that she had completely bombed it when she came out of it. She thought that her score was going to be 450-500, but it was actually 690, not a spectacular score, but not bad either.

 

My middle dd is going to do Giancoli Physics this year. I'm not sure whether she'll do the AP Physics B test or the SAT-II test. It all depends on how long it takes to get through the book. The AP tests are all done the first two weeks of May and I don't think we'll be done by then, so I think SAT-II is more likely.

[Miss Marple]

Does the U.S. History cover all years or is it divided into early and late like the colleges divide it? My son will be taking U.S. History Late at the CC this fall. I was hoping it might cover the material necessary.

[Miss Marple]

Thank you, Brenda, this is very helpful. My son took Hewitt's CP in 8th but I'm not giving him HS credit for it even though he scored a solid A. Instead he's taking Conceptual Physics at the CC this fall along with trigonometry and U.S. History (late). He's had a very good literature foundation, but he struggles as a writer. I was thinking of having him try the math SAT2 and literature. Do you think he could do the Physics with that background?

 

Also, the math tests say that graphing calculator skills are necessary and I don't know if that will be part of the CC trig class or not.

 

I'll try to find some of the SAT2 books at the library tomorrow.

[AngieW in Texas]

It's all of US history. I think the breakdown was 20% up to the Revolution, 40% from the Revolution to the Civil War, and 40% from the Civil War to modern day.

[Brenda in MA]

Do you think he could do the Physics with that background?

 

Also, the math tests say that graphing calculator skills are necessary and I don't know if that will be part of the CC trig class or not.

 

I'll try to find some of the SAT2 books at the library tomorrow.

 

Cynthia,

 

I think he might do well on the Physics with that background after some review. Your best bet is to get a prep book from the library and have him take a sample test to see how he does.

 

I'm not sure if I'd say that a graphing calc is "required" for the math level 2, but it definitely helps with speed on some of the problems. You could also have him look at the level 1 exam.

 

He might do well on the US History after the CC class, if he has a decent handle on the earlier material. Again, look at a practice exam. A few months ago, I was trying to assess if my younger son should take the US History SAT2 exam this spring after we finish the 2nd half of US history, so I got the prep book from the library and took the test myself, since we are essentially studying the material together. I was able to get high 600s after doing the 1st half of US history and using my existing knowledge. My plan is to have him work through the rest of US History course and then give him a sample exam in late April. If it looks like he'll do OK, I'll sign him up for the SAT2 offered in June.

 

As we have found typical with the College Board exams, a number of the questions are more like logic problems than actually testing content, so he needs to be prepared for that. I found this to be true on the US History SAT2 practice test I tried, as well as the math and science exams.

 

Brenda

[Teachin'Mine]

Some colleges I've seen ask for SAT II tests for subjects not tested on the SAT's - like science, English and history. Does anyone know if world geography counts as history?

 

ETA: I meant languages - not English. :tongue_smilie:

Edited August 11, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[Miss Marple]

Some colleges I've seen ask for SAT II tests for subjects not tested on the SAT's - like science' date=' English and history. Does anyone know if world geography counts as history?[/quote']

 

I was wondering that as well. Do the universities typically ask for specific subject tests?

[Miss Marple]

OK, physics and math might work. But would he look "well rounded" enough? I'm tempted to check the literature study guide as he's hit that pretty hard during his high school years (not that he truly enjoyed it, though). The history would be questionable.

 

So do the SAT2 tests need to be taken prior to making application to a university? If that's the case, we probably should have started this in his junior year.

[Miss Marple]

It's all of US history. I think the breakdown was 20% up to the Revolution, 40% from the Revolution to the Civil War, and 40% from the Civil War to modern day.

 

Hmm...I probably need to check the study guide on that. We've done it all, but it's been several years ago.

[Brenda in MA]

I was wondering that as well. Do the universities typically ask for specific subject tests?

 

I've only seen requests for specific subject tests a couple of times in my research. Northeastern asks that homeschooled students to submit 2 SAT2 tests, one math and one additional of your choice. If you are applying for a science major, the additional one must be in science. If you are applying for engineering, the additional one must be physics. Carnegie Mellon requires 2 subject test, a math and one additional. The addition one must be certain subjects based upon which major you are applying to. Notre Dame requires homeschooled students to submit 3 SAT2 scores in history, foreign language, and science. These are only a few that I am aware of.

 

How is that for differing requirements? I think the bottom line is that you need to check the specific requirements at every school your child will apply to.

 

As far as when the SAT2 exams need to be taken. I think that most schools will allow a student to take them as late as December or January of their senior year, but again, check with each school to be sure of their deadlines.

 

Brenda

[Miss Marple]

LOL! That's helpful. I was envisioning having him take 4 or 5 tests! I think he can handle 2 more easily.

[memphispeg]

I have noticed that some colleges ask for 3 subject tests and specifically ask for Math 1 or 2, particularly for homeschooled applicants. The best thing you can do is to take a Math SAT 2 and then 2 others in subjects that you have done advanced work (like AP) in. The language tests are hard but, can be used as placement or, if the scores are high enough, can be used to satisfy any language requirement that the school has. The subject tests are usually taken at the end of the school year (when the subject is still fresh in their mind). The most important thing to do is to look at all the schools that the dc might be interested in and see what they require and just get them taken.

[AngieW in Texas]

I found the study guide. These are the percentages listed:

20% precolumbian-1789

40% 1790-1898

40% 1899-present

 

It also gives these percentages:

32-36% political history

18-20% economic history

18-22% social history

10-12% intellectual and cultural history

13-17% foreign policy

[Teachin'Mine]

I was wondering that as well. Do the universities typically ask for specific subject tests?

 

Brenda answered that beautifully! :)

 

It's the last one listed that we're looking at. Science should be no problem, but the history and language ... Does anyone know if they accept world geography for history? The problem with the ones in foreign language is that you're "competing" with people taking the test who are native speakers. So in order to get a good percentage, you have to have a very high score. Of course this isn't the case with Latin. :D

[Kareni]

Do the universities typically ask for specific subject tests?

 

My daughter applied to several colleges that required three SAT subject tests. Sometimes they dictated which SAT math level was required. One college required a SAT science subject test. At least a couple required a SAT subject test in a foreign language. It can be quite variable.

 

Does anyone know if they accept world geography for history?

 

There is no SAT subject test in Geography.

 

The problem with the ones in foreign language is that you're "competing" with people taking the test who are native speakers. So in order to get a good percentage' date=' you have to have a very high score. Of course this isn't the case with Latin. :D[/quote']

 

My daughter took the SAT subject test in Latin. It was a challenging test. She took it after taking AP Latin, so often one's fellow test takers are quite well prepared (even if they are not native speakers!).

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Guest Ernestine]

Cynthia,

Sorry no help on your questions. But just wanted to let you know I love your signature line.

Great movie!!

[Miss Marple]

Glad you like it!!! It is my favorite piece of fiction.

[Renee in NC]

University of Florida wants SAT 2s in Math (Level 2), Science, Foreign Language, and Social Studies.

[Teachin'Mine]

My daughter applied to several colleges that required three SAT subject tests. Sometimes they dictated which SAT math level was required. One college required a SAT science subject test. At least a couple required a SAT subject test in a foreign language. It can be quite variable.

 

 

 

There is no SAT subject test in Geography.

 

 

 

My daughter took the SAT subject test in Latin. It was a challenging test. She took it after taking AP Latin, so often one's fellow test takers are quite well prepared (even if they are not native speakers!).

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thank you Karen! I didn't realize there isn't one in geography I guess I was thinking of the AP in world geography. I don't know if an AP exam can be substituted for an SAT II or not. Eventually, I'll need to make some phone calls on this.

 

I've seen that the Latin test is very challenging too and high scores are needed for a good percentage. It's what my dd will probably take a few years from now. I was just having a bit of fun that there aren't any native speakers taking the test. :) I think it's the only one that doesn't have an oral part of the test, but I'm probably thinking of the AP tests - I get the two confused often! :lol:

[Kareni]

Here is a link to a list of the twenty different SAT subject tests.

 

Teachin'Mine, are you also familiar with the National Latin Exam? My daughter enjoyed taking that test each year she took Latin.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Gwen in VA]

Among my three oldest, they have taken eleven SAT2's so far.

 

Our experience echoes what Brenda in MA says -- a broad strong one-year course in a specific subject can provide enough background to get a great score.

 

The exams that are more cumulative, such as literature and foreign languages, should be taken either as late as possible in high school or whenever your student finishes his last class in the subject.

 

The two exams that my kids found the most challenging were Latin (similar to Kareni), and English lit. My kids were taking AP courses in those subjects and got 5's on the relevant AP exams, but those SAT2 exams were just plain challenging.

 

One random piece of advice -- if your kid is applying to an engineering school, have him take the SAT2 level 2 math only or have him take it in addition to the level 1. Engineering schools like to see the level 2!

Edited August 12, 2010 by Gwen in VA

[Teachin'Mine]

Here is a link to a list of the twenty different SAT subject tests.

 

Teachin'Mine, are you also familiar with the National Latin Exam? My daughter enjoyed taking that test each year she took Latin.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Karen thank you for the link.

 

I've heard of the Latin exam here, and will probably look into the details later in the year. It sounds like a good one to take! How many years of Latin did your daughter have before she took the SAT II?

 

Gwen, how many years of Latin did yours have before taking the SAT II?

Edited August 13, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[Kareni]

Kareni' date=' thank you for the link.

 

I've heard of the Latin exam here, and will probably look into the details later in the year. It sounds like a good one to take! How many years of Latin did your daughter have before she took the SAT II?[/quote']

 

My daughter was finishing up her fourth year of Latin (AP level) when she took the SAT subject test in Latin.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Gwen in VA]

Gwen, how many years of Latin did yours have before taking the SAT II?

 

Dd had been messing around with Latin for a few years, but she only did Latin "officially" starting her sophomore year of high school. She did Latin 1 (first half of Wheelock's) her sophomore year and then did the second half of Wheelock's plus the first half of Latin literature with a tutor in six months so she could join the second semester of a Latin 3 class. She took the Latin SAT2 in November of her senior year while she was taking AP Latin.

 

I guess that means that she had studied Latin for only slightly over two years when she took the SAT2, but she had finished Latin 3 and was in AP Latin.

 

I would definitely recommend more Latin over a longer period of time! She found the Latin SAT2 very challenging. She still scored well enough on the SAT2 for the score to be a nice number to list on her transcript.

[Teachin'Mine]

Thank you Karen and Gwen. Oh wow - they were both very advanced in Latin and it was still so hard. :tongue_smilie: Seems out of sinc (sp?) with the other subject tests which are generally much easier than an AP exam. Now I'm wishing we had started sooner with Latin, but we can only go from here. Best case scenario, she'll be taking it after Latin 3 at the end of 11th. Even if she takes Latin 4 or AP Latin in 12th, the exam would be too late to include for applications. Hopefully middle school moms are taking note and getting a head start. :)

[Kareni]

Teachin'Mine,

 

I listed a few of the resources that my daughter found helpful for the Latin SAT Subject test here.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[cathmom]

Take them in your best subject areas!!

[Teachin'Mine]

Teachin'Mine,

 

I listed a few of the resources that my daughter found helpful for the Latin SAT Subject test here.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thank you - I've saved your post for future reference. :)