rigorous music history but not composer studies?

[tearose]

I'm wondering if there is a good music history curriculum that doesn't just involve composer studies. DH and I have graduate degrees in music (concentrating in music theory and music history, respectively), and it is the one area of WTM that we're not thrilled about. I feel that some of the composers listed in WTM are "popular" but not necessarily important from a scholarly perspective. Conversely, WTM's lists don't include a number of composers that I would consider significant, especially pre-Bach. I'm also not sold on mainly using biographies to learn about classical music.

 

Basically, I'd like something that is structured more like a college music history sequence, starting from chant, going on to medieval, Renaissance before hitting Bach & Vivaldi (which seems to be where most "children's" music histories start). While I think that it would be nice to do music history along with SOTW, I'm not sure it's realistic. There isn't much music for the ancient year (and neither DH or I want to do much world music), and in the later years, it might be too tightly packed (and I don't think that it would always dovetail nicely with the history lessons).

 

I also don't really like using excerpts unless it's for something like the Ring Cycle, so I don't think that the singalong classical CDs are my thing, either.

 

So my question is: does anything like this exist? Or am I just going to have to write my own curriculum? DS is still very young, so I'd have some time to work on it, if necessary.

[JennW in SoCal]

My suggestion, as a veteran homeschooler and musician, is that you dump the idea of needing a curriculum and simply share your love of music.

 

To me, music is a joyous thing, much like reading. I didn't introduce my kids to great literature by starting out with a literary curriculum but by reading picture books then chapter books then letting them loose to read what interested them. When they were developmentally ready, we started going more deeply into Great Books. Rigour was something that naturally came about because I enjoy literature, and we as a family enjoy discussing things and sharing our opinions and unique viewpoints.

 

I did the same with music. We listened to all kinds of music when they were little -- from typical fare like Peter and the Wolf to listening to Rite of Spring when playing with dinosaurs to dancing to Glen Miller music. I'd buy movie soundtracks and listen to them in the car, asking them -- oooh, what do you think is happening here? How is Darth Vader's theme different from Leia's? We watched the old black and white Leonard Bernstein Young People's concerts. They've had to sit through my rehearsals and concerts for years, and attend other concerts. They sang in a good children's choir, took music lessons. One became a singer and the other really isn't moved at all by music, has no interest in making music or listening to it.

 

By the way, here's a couple of suggestions for younger kids. There is a terrific series of picture books by Anna Harwell Celenza about specific works by great composers, and best of all, a cd with the complete work is included. Also, Bruce Adolphe (from NPR's Performance Today) has some wonderful compositions for kids -- Tyrannosaurus Sue, and a Little Red Riding Hood (I think..)

 

By all means you should tap into your knowledge of music history to enrich your explorations of history. How cool to bring alive the middle ages with recordings of chants, or to have the vocabulary to explain why Eastern music sounds so different from Western music. You of all people do not need a pre-packaged curriculum -- it is all there in your mind, and clearly it is something you love. Share that love, show your enthusiasm and your children will learn.

 

And, if you really feel the need to write the ideal curriculum, go for it then publish it!!

[violinmom]

What Jennifer said :) I have a graduate degree in music as well. I figure the one area I know, I can do on my own. Since I am a violinist, every here plays violin, I also add in the important violinists/composers that are left out - like Paganini for example.

 

I am tempted to pull out my Grout book :) I think I am going to just use a variety of resources plus listening.

[nicholsonhomeschool]

I just had to chime in because I'm also a violin mom. But while I teach my children math, science, spelling, etc, I pay someone else to teach them violin and cello. I applaud musicians who can teach their own! Personally, we try to delve into the composers of pieces they are playing, but it doesn't make for a very neat chronology. I'm eager to hear what you come up with! And maybe good old Grout needs to come off the shelve... thanks for the inspiration.

[tearose]

Yes, I'm thinking of doing something along the lines of a simplified Grout. We have a big CD and score collection, and we play a lot of music just for fun, but I'd also like to do a more systematic study. I don't necessarily need a curriculum that tells me exactly what to say, but I'm not sure that I could do a good job on the fly, either. I might try to make a list of essential concepts/pieces/terms/etc. and see where that leads me (I think that paring down to a do-able amount of music will be the hard part for me).

 

I have the some of the Celenza books, and I especially like the one about the Goldberg variations. I also like Lemony Snicket's The Composer is Dead, which I think does a great job illustrating the essence of each instrument's role in the orchestra. But I haven't had much luck finding children's books about medieval or Renaissance music--the only one I have right now is a book about Guido of Arezzo and his music notation.

[Rosie_0801]

But I haven't had much luck finding children's books about medieval or Renaissance music--the only one I have right now is a book about Guido of Arezzo and his music notation.

 

I don't know about books, but your local re-enactment group might well have musicians. Then you can hear for real :) And even learn to dance to it :)

 

Rosie

[NancyNellen]

I was just looking at my Grout and trying to decide how to implement :-)

 

[Have my degree in music education - emphasis flute]

[Jen in DE]

For older kids, I've been looking at this curriculum - it's new.

http://discoveringmusic.net/

I'd love to know what all of you who know music think of how this one looks. I am soooooo tempted to try this. Tell me what you guys think! I'm looking to do it for either 8th or 9th grade.

Jen

[tearose]

I'm very picky when it comes to music, so I probably wouldn't use Discovering Music for several reasons:

 

1) Naxos CDs are kind of cheap. They're not necessarily bad recordings, but they are rarely the best available.

 

2) No medieval or Renaissance music

 

3) I wouldn't listen to Schoenberg for fun, but I don't think that you can adequately study 20th-century music without touching on Schoenberg and 12-tone music. Overall, it seems weak on 20th-c. music in general.

 

(#2 and #3 are probably due to the fact that it only covers 300 years of music)

 

4) I'm not sure how much listening guidance there is. The one unit available for preview was on 19th-c. opera, and it seemed more focused on libretto, staging, opera houses, etc. Hard to tell if there might be more guidance in the other units. The "Viewing Guide" questions don't seem to focus much on actual music, either. Related to this, I'd like to have some listening quizzes, and I'm not sure that this program offers those.

 

5) I'm not a huge fan of video lectures. I'm also guessing that the video lecture format mainly uses excerpts, which I dislike (to me, listening to one movement of a symphony is like just reading chapter three in novel)

 

I think that some of the units look promising, though, and it might be useful for someone with little or no background in music. In my case, I feel like I have better recordings of the pieces included in the CD set, and I'd prefer more guided listening. And I guess for $139, I'd want a more comprehensive music history, not just 300 years.

 

Lastly, one nitpicky thing: the book individually lists a Naxos link for every composer in the unit under "Websites", which seems like a useless space-filler to me. Seems simple enough just to tell the student to refer to the Naxos page for each composer ...

[Nestof3]

I'm thinking since you both have graduate degrees in this, it would be something that you would just sort of talk about as you listen to music. Or, couldn't you use a text like The Enjoyment of Music and put it in layman's terms, so to speak?

 

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/music/enj9/shorter/index.htm

 

I use it some for high school music appreciation. My son used it in his college class, as did I.

 

I did write my own Middle Ages and Renaissance resources, but I only have the paper copy as it was written years ago before my hard drive crashed. It's something I plan to retype at some point.

 

For me, I just think the terminology is too complex for younger kids, which is why I choose a few composers as we go along in history just to get them familiar with different music and names.

 

Oh, I also listened to some of this and really enjoyed it:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=700

[annlaura]

I too plan to do music on my own. I kept my music history CDs, which have a decent overview. But really, I have plenty of complete CDs to share and use. And I agree, there could be too much or too little to really go along with a history course, but I do plan to include some examples to connect everything.

[Nestof3]

I remember I found many of my notes for the Middle Ages and Ren. from this website:

 

http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistrano/Mike/capmusic/music_room/themusic.htm

 

Scroll down toward the bottom.

[greenmamato3]

i think that music history for music history's sake is empty. the LIVES of the composers, the TIMES they were living in, and where they were headed as they evolved in their craft is what brings music history alive .... not just time periods and dates. relating to history is a great idea, but, as you mentioned, in year 1, there's not much until you get to the greeks.

i used my norton anthology of western music with our year 1 (i have my degree in piano performance and am both a history and theory buff) when i could, but in general, DH and i are just saturating their lives with great music and not allowing them to settle on what i would call musical twaddle.

 

that means it's not always connected to our history studies, but it is ALWAYS commented on :), no matter whether we're driving down the road, cooking dinner, or casually hear something in a store. we do more like "can you hear how many layers of music there are" and "what's the name of the instrument you hear" type of stuff .... and then read through composer bios (celenza, opal wheeler, ) etc. they need to know the SOUND of the composer's music and his period style before high school more than they need to be able to rattle off the scope and sequence of the history of music.

 

this year we're studying american history (gasp, we're not following WTM cycle LOL) and then will return to year 2 of SOTW time period. so they are learning about bach and byrd b/c that's what the pilgrims would've known before coming over {and then we're studying hymns, on and on} .... but then they will still hear exciting things like classical kids' production of "tchaikovsky discovers america" b/c it's *fun* and it inclines them to LOVE music passionately as DH and i do. they will attend symphony concerts and live piano concerts that have NOTHING to do with that time period ....

 

i would happily pull out my Grout or Norton Anthology texts if i felt that it was the best thing for my 7 and 5 yr olds, but good grief, they don't need rigor from a text book such as that. they need saturation!!!! their lives will be lived in a shroud of great music. eventually they will hunger on their own to dig deep into the heady texts like grout and norton, but i would hazard to guess that none of us did that much before high school land we we ALL ended up with deep passion for music history .... it can be the same for our kiddos too :)

 

in the meantime, they need to develop PASSION for being a life-long music learner. and GET THEM TO THE SYMPHONY as much as possible. performances of live classical music are going to die out if we don't teach our generation of kids to LOVE good music. :)

 

there's my soap box. i'll step aside :)

 

oh, and i wouldn't buy that music history course.

[tearose]

I'm thinking since you both have graduate degrees in this, it would be something that you would just sort of talk about as you listen to music. Or, couldn't you use a text like The Enjoyment of Music and put it in layman's terms, so to speak?

 

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/music/enj9/shorter/index.htm

 

I use it some for high school music appreciation. My son used it in his college class, as did I.

 

I did write my own Middle Ages and Renaissance resources, but I only have the paper copy as it was written years ago before my hard drive crashed. It's something I plan to retype at some point.

 

For me, I just think the terminology is too complex for younger kids, which is why I choose a few composers as we go along in history just to get them familiar with different music and names.

 

Oh, I also listened to some of this and really enjoyed it:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=700

 

I've thumbed through The Enjoyment of Music, but I don't remember it clearly enough to have an opinion. I think that the companion music anthology would be good for inexperienced score readers. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the important lines are highlighted (so if you were listening to a symphony and following along, you could see that the winds were at an important moment, while the strings were just playing filler).

 

I would disagree about the terminology being too complicated. Most kids have no problems learning dinosaur names, and I think Tyrannosaurus Rex is more of a mouthful than polyphony. I certainly don't expect them to learn what a Landini cadence is or how to analyze 12-tone music, but I think that they can grasp more than we think.

 

All I can say about the price tag for those lectures is :eek:

 

ETA: I looked at the Renaissance section of the pages you linked, and I have to admit that I cringed. I read some out loud to DH who told me that he couldn't listen to any more because it was too embarrassing. There were, in my opinion, a lot of errors. The Benedictus, for instance, is not a separate Mass part from the the Sanctus; it may be split off, but it's still considered part of the Sanctus. A motet can have more than one text (many have two or three texts sung simultaneously). Etc.

Edited August 18, 2010 by tearose
added another thought

[tearose]

i think that music history for music history's sake is empty. the LIVES of the composers, the TIMES they were living in, and where they were headed as they evolved in their craft is what brings music history alive .... not just time periods and dates. relating to history is a great idea, but, as you mentioned, in year 1, there's not much until you get to the greeks.

i used my norton anthology of western music with our year 1 (i have my degree in piano performance and am both a history and theory buff) when i could, but in general, DH and i are just saturating their lives with great music and not allowing them to settle on what i would call musical twaddle.

 

that means it's not always connected to our history studies, but it is ALWAYS commented on :), no matter whether we're driving down the road, cooking dinner, or casually hear something in a store. we do more like "can you hear how many layers of music there are" and "what's the name of the instrument you hear" type of stuff .... and then read through composer bios (celenza, opal wheeler, ) etc. they need to know the SOUND of the composer's music and his period style before high school more than they need to be able to rattle off the scope and sequence of the history of music.

 

this year we're studying american history (gasp, we're not following WTM cycle LOL) and then will return to year 2 of SOTW time period. so they are learning about bach and byrd b/c that's what the pilgrims would've known before coming over {and then we're studying hymns, on and on} .... but then they will still hear exciting things like classical kids' production of "tchaikovsky discovers america" b/c it's *fun* and it inclines them to LOVE music passionately as DH and i do. they will attend symphony concerts and live piano concerts that have NOTHING to do with that time period ....

 

i would happily pull out my Grout or Norton Anthology texts if i felt that it was the best thing for my 7 and 5 yr olds, but good grief, they don't need rigor from a text book such as that. they need saturation!!!! their lives will be lived in a shroud of great music. eventually they will hunger on their own to dig deep into the heady texts like grout and norton, but i would hazard to guess that none of us did that much before high school land we we ALL ended up with deep passion for music history .... it can be the same for our kiddos too :)

 

in the meantime, they need to develop PASSION for being a life-long music learner. and GET THEM TO THE SYMPHONY as much as possible. performances of live classical music are going to die out if we don't teach our generation of kids to LOVE good music. :)

 

there's my soap box. i'll step aside :)

 

oh, and i wouldn't buy that music history course.

 

I guess that I'm less sold on learning about the lives of the composers. Interesting for fun reading, perhaps, but I don't know that I would emphasize their personal lives so much as part of their schooling. Musically speaking, does it really matter that Bach had over twenty kids or Gesualdo murdered his wife and her lover (well, Gesualdo's music is pretty weird ...)?

 

I do think that it's important connect the dots from period to period or composer to composer. So many Baroque studies only cover the later part--Bach, Vivaldi, maybe Handel. But how did the musical style shift from the Renaissance to the Baroque? The pivotal figure here would be Monteverdi, though I don't think that I've encoutered any children's books or material on him or the very early Baroque (I'd love to find out that I'm wrong, though!). No, they don't need to know the terms prima pratica and seconda pratica, but they should know the sound of the early Baroque. And I think that it is natural to include texture, instrumentation, etc. as a part of music history.

 

DH and I play music and sing all the time, but I don't often think to listen to Perotin for fun--yet I think it would be good to at listen to organum after covering chant. I'm not a huge fan of serialism, and I would never listen to it for pleasure, but one ought to know the sound of the Second Viennese School (DH would play that stuff a lot more, but I tell him that I cannot cook dinner with Schoenberg in the background). For me, it's a given that music is part of our lives, but I'd like our kids to know that there's a lot of music out there. DH and I despise Frescobaldi, for instance, but I'd like to expose my kids to him. I guess my frustration is that I feel like there is so much wonderful music beyond the oft-covered composers--but most of the resources available don't cover those areas.

 

(Just a side note about the Pilgrims and music--The Mayflower sailed around 1620, and Bach was born in 1685. I tend to think of Byrd as a composer of Anglican anthems and Catholic sacred music (Gradualia, the three Masses), along with some madrigals, pieces for virginal. Would the Pilgrims have known his music? I have no idea, although I'm curious.)

[Nestof3]

I would disagree about the terminology being too complicated. Most kids have no problems learning dinosaur names, and I think Tyrannosaurus Rex is more of a mouthful than polyphony. I certainly don't expect them to learn what a Landini cadence is or how to analyze 12-tone music, but I think that they can grasp more than we think.

 

 

I agree that polyphony is not too complicated a word, but there is no way I could just sit and read The Enjoyment of Music to my kids and have them enjoy music. There are some concepts that are based saved until later. Every music major I have come across has seen that text -- it's that popular. I use big words with my kids all the time; for instance, when learning the orders of invertebrates and vertebrates, I had them learn the names like porifera, echinoderm, cnidarian, chiroptera, etc. But, I didn't go into the dept that a college course would. Completely unnecessary, and the kids would probably have hated science after that.

 

 

All I can say about the price tag for those lectures is :eek:

 

The Teaching Company has every lecture on sale at 75% off at least once a year, and many libraries carry them. The Teaching Company is a very popular company as well.

 

ETA: I looked at the Renaissance section of the pages you linked, and I have to admit that I cringed. I read some out loud to DH who told me that he couldn't listen to any more because it was too embarrassing. There were, in my opinion, a lot of errors. The Benedictus, for instance, is not a separate Mass part from the the Sanctus; it may be split off, but it's still considered part of the Sanctus. A motet can have more than one text (many have two or three texts sung simultaneously). Etc.

 

Well, see, since you know so much, I don't see why you are worrying so much about a program. Seriously, my literature prof. from college, who studies Renaissance literature (as did I) doesn't need a text to teach her daughter about Ren. literature because it is a part of her.

[Nestof3]

I guess that I'm less sold on learning about the lives of the composers. Interesting for fun reading, perhaps, but I don't know that I would emphasize their personal lives so much as part of their schooling. Musically speaking, does it really matter that Bach had over twenty kids or Gesualdo murdered his wife and her lover (well, Gesualdo's music is pretty weird ...)?

 

The reason I read them is because random names thrown around with no story don't stick with most kids. Since you guys probably listen to music by them and talk about their work, the case is probably not true with you. And yes, their lives do influence their music. Of course you know that. Think about the people they were hired to work for. Think about how much they needed money. Think about how their family life influenced their musical drive. I read enough to my boys so that they are comfortable with the people and their periods. And, of course, we also listen to their music.

 

I do think that it's important connect the dots from period to period or composer to composer. So many Baroque studies only cover the later part--Bach, Vivaldi, maybe Handel. But how did the musical style shift from the Renaissance to the Baroque? The pivotal figure here would be Monteverdi, though I don't think that I've encoutered any children's books or material on him or the very early Baroque (I'd love to find out that I'm wrong, though!). No, they don't need to know the terms prima pratica and seconda pratica, but they should know the sound of the early Baroque. And I think that it is natural to include texture, instrumentation, etc. as a part of music history.

 

I agree with you here, but I don't have a huge need for it. I have looked for children's resources on Monteverdi and have been unsuccessful, so I am going to play music from him and talk a little about the transition from Ren. to Baroque. Again, I don't really see why you are worrying so much about a resource when it sounds like you are comfortable with it.

 

I get more particular about that when high school comes, which is why I compiled Middle Ages and Ren. resources. There weren't any in the program I used (which I will not use again -- too much of their lives, not enough of the music -- the eras). I plan to use The Enjoyment of Music for high school along with the Teaching Co. DVDs.

 

Perhaps you can look at my Middle Ages/Ren. and tell me where I'm wrong. ;)

 

DH and I play music and sing all the time, but I don't often think to listen to Perotin for fun--yet I think it would be good to at listen to organum after covering chant. I'm not a huge fan of serialism, and I would never listen to it for pleasure, but one ought to know the sound of the Second Viennese School (DH would play that stuff a lot more, but I tell him that I cannot cook dinner with Schoenberg in the background). For me, it's a given that music is part of our lives, but I'd like our kids to know that there's a lot of music out there. DH and I despise Frescobaldi, for instance, but I'd like to expose my kids to him. I guess my frustration is that I feel like there is so much wonderful music beyond the oft-covered composers--but most of the resources available don't cover those areas.

 

Truly, I believe, it doesn't exist because many people do not see a need for it in young children. Authors also take into consideration their market -- how many people would buy a book about Renaissance music? A picture book on Farmer? (I would, LOL) There is a picture book on Hildegard, but not being a musical historian, I cannot vouch for its accuracy. But, my kids know who she is -- and that's more than most kids can say.

[tearose]

I agree that polyphony is not too complicated a word, but there is no way I could just sit and read The Enjoyment of Music to my kids and have them enjoy music. There are some concepts that are based saved until later. Every music major I have come across has seen that text -- it's that popular. I use big words with my kids all the time; for instance, when learning the orders of invertebrates and vertebrates, I had them learn the names like porifera, echinoderm, cnidarian, chiroptera, etc. But, I didn't go into the dept that a college course would. Completely unnecessary, and the kids would probably have hated science after that.

 

I definitely wouldn't read from a textbook, but I would perhaps try to emulate its scope. Maybe Schutz isn't your cup of tea, but your kids might love it; in this case, you might want to highlight the different textures (very Italian) and the German text-setting. And if you had listened to Monteverdi or Gabrieli before Schutz, you might point out some similarities (Schutz studied in Venice). Like "ooh, let's see how many different combinations of voices and instruments he uses!" or "what kind of music does it remind you of?"

 

 

The Teaching Company has every lecture on sale at 75% off at least once a year, and many libraries carry them. The Teaching Company is a very popular company as well.

 

Much easier on the pocketbook, then :)

 

Well, see, since you know so much, I don't see why you are worrying so much about a program. Seriously, my literature prof. from college, who studies Renaissance literature (as did I) doesn't need a text to teach her daughter about Ren. literature because it is a part of her.

 

Lack of confidence, I guess. I mean, I have no problem teaching undergrads, but I'm so worried about messing up with my own kids!

[SoCal Sandra]

follows a chronological sequence. It's probably more limited in scope than what you want but might provide part of what you are looking for.

 

We found the lectures delightful. The only thing that didn't receive unanimous praise from us was Greenberg's occassional use of the word "dam*."

 

The series is published by The Teaching Company. Some public libraries have the DVDs or VHS tapes.

 

HTH

[tearose]

Dawn, you might also like Listen by Joseph Kerman and Gary Tomlinson (both are big-name musicologists). My university used this in place of The Enjoyment of Music for non-major music appreciation. I'd probably do more early music (there's a chapter each on middle ages, Renaissance, and early Baroque out of 20-some chapters total), but it does a pretty good job. Very nice guided listening, I think, though I don't know if the accompanying CD set is expensive (I think DH got our copy for free when it was one of his teaching assignments). It might be worth a look, especially if you can get it from a library.

 

And, sure, if you want me to take a look at your medieval/Renaissance notes, just send them to me!

[Nestof3]

Thanks! I will definitely look into it!

 

Oh, and for the Teaching Co. audio lectures, I only listened to these four lectures. I wanted to understand more about the music of those periods, and I felt like much was missing in most books.

 

3.The Middle Ages

4.Introduction to the Renaissance

5.The Renaissance Mass

6.The Madrigal

 

 

 

Dawn, you might also like Listen by Joseph Kerman and Gary Tomlinson (both are big-name musicologists). My university used this in place of The Enjoyment of Music for non-major music appreciation. I'd probably do more early music (there's a chapter each on middle ages, Renaissance, and early Baroque out of 20-some chapters total), but it does a pretty good job. Very nice guided listening, I think, though I don't know if the accompanying CD set is expensive (I think DH got our copy for free when it was one of his teaching assignments). It might be worth a look, especially if you can get it from a library.

 

And, sure, if you want me to take a look at your medieval/Renaissance notes, just send them to me!

[Nestof3]

Here are the odf files for the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Remember, I typed these up five years ago -- I barely remember it. LOL

 

For the notes, I was basically trying to organize what I was reading from various sources so that it could be presented in a way my high schooler would understand. He was in the tenth grade at the time.

 

I typed up study guides/tests which I gave to him.

 

Middle Ages:

 

Composer and Musical Figures Notes

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164642/composers-middle-ages-pdf-august-18-2010-12-15-pm-84k?da=y

 

Middle Ages -- Notes

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164644/middle-ages-notes-pdf-august-18-2010-12-15-pm-19k?da=y

 

Middle Ages Music Guide

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164645/middle-ages-study-guide-pdf-august-18-2010-12-15-pm-290k?da=y

 

Middle AgGes Music Test

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164643/middle-ages-music-test-pdf-august-18-2010-12-15-pm-47k?da=y

 

Renaissance:

 

Vocabulary

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164675/ren-music-vocab-pdf-august-18-2010-12-19-pm-15k?da=y

 

Renaissance Focus Questions

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164676/renaisance-focus-questions-pdf-august-18-2010-12-19-pm-45k?da=y

 

Renaissance Music Guide

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164677/renaissance-music-pdf-august-18-2010-12-19-pm-103k?da=y

 

Renaissance Music Test

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2164686/ren-music-test-pdf-august-18-2010-12-22-pm-71k?da=y

 

Go easy on me. ;)

[tearose]

Dawn,

I couldn't open your Renaissance documents--it keeps saying I don't have permission. But your medieval notes are quite thorough, and I think that you did a really good job! I guess if there's a way to listen to more than Amazon snippets or short excerpts, I would try to do that. I'll be honest and say that I get bored listening to organum when it goes on and on forever, but I think it's important to know the scope of a piece. You can fast-forward after a couple minutes, but I think it would help your dc to know that the piece goes on for another twenty minutes, kwim?

 

Just a few notes on the medieval material:

Unless your dc are really interested, you probably don't have to go into the neume names. I barely studied that to pass my qualifying exams in grad school. Most score anthologies have chant notated in just the square neumes for ease in reading.

 

If you have time, you might want to cover the Divine Office when you do chant. I'd cover vespers, at least, since a lot of later composers write musical settings for vespers.

 

Under organum, it might help your dc to remember that the tenor holds long notes by telling them that tenor comes from tenere, to hold)

 

Motets -- I'd highlight the interaction between the different texts, i.e. they weren't chosen at random.

 

Isorhythmic motet - the repeating pattern is pretty much always going to be in the tenor (in this period , the lowest voice)

 

There were important religious motets later, so motets are not always secular.

 

I saw that you mentioned hockets somewhere (in the Machaut section, I think?) but didn't define the term. Basically, it's when you spit a melody between two voice.

 

The Machaut section also mentions the fixed forms (formes fixes): virelai, rondeau, ballade. I would keep this if you could go into the structures in more detail; otherwise, I don't think that it means very much to know that Machaut wrote x number of rondeaux. At this level, I don't think it's necessary to memorize that rondeau form is ABaAabAB, but I think that you might want to convey idea of a prescribed structure for the music and stanzas more clearly.

[Nestof3]

I forgot to make it public. I have fixed it.

 

I will print out your notes for the day when I study this with my younger boys (only 9 and 10). Thank you so much for your feedback! It has been so long since I looked at them. I actually had to retrieve them from an old backup CD from a previous computer.

 

Dawn,

I couldn't open your Renaissance documents--it keeps saying I don't have permission. But your medieval notes are quite thorough, and I think that you did a really good job! I guess if there's a way to listen to more than Amazon snippets or short excerpts, I would try to do that. I'll be honest and say that I get bored listening to organum when it goes on and on forever, but I think it's important to know the scope of a piece. You can fast-forward after a couple minutes, but I think it would help your dc to know that the piece goes on for another twenty minutes, kwim?

 

Just a few notes on the medieval material:

Unless your dc are really interested, you probably don't have to go into the neume names. I barely studied that to pass my qualifying exams in grad school. Most score anthologies have chant notated in just the square neumes for ease in reading.

 

If you have time, you might want to cover the Divine Office when you do chant. I'd cover vespers, at least, since a lot of later composers write musical settings for vespers.

 

Under organum, it might help your dc to remember that the tenor holds long notes by telling them that tenor comes from tenere, to hold)

 

Motets -- I'd highlight the interaction between the different texts, i.e. they weren't chosen at random.

 

Isorhythmic motet - the repeating pattern is pretty much always going to be in the tenor (in this period , the lowest voice)

 

There were important religious motets later, so motets are not always secular.

 

I saw that you mentioned hockets somewhere (in the Machaut section, I think?) but didn't define the term. Basically, it's when you spit a melody between two voice.

 

The Machaut section also mentions the fixed forms (formes fixes): virelai, rondeau, ballade. I would keep this if you could go into the structures in more detail; otherwise, I don't think that it means very much to know that Machaut wrote x number of rondeaux. At this level, I don't think it's necessary to memorize that rondeau form is ABaAabAB, but I think that you might want to convey idea of a prescribed structure for the music and stanzas more clearly.

[tearose]

Just a couple comments on your Renaissance notes:

 

The Magnificat is part of vespers; it would not be sung on its own in a church.

 

Under Dufay: Alma redemptoris mater is a Marian antiphon, not a motet. Marian antiphons are usually sung at the end of compline (night prayer) or vespers (evening prayer). Alma redemptoris mater would be sung from Advent to Feb 2 (there are three others for different times of the year)

 

When you list the composers on p. 5, it's not really clear that Dufay and Josquin are pre-Reformation and Palestrina is post-Reformation. I think that it makes more sense to look at Renaissance music before the Reformation as one unit and then music after the Reformation as another. It's a little confusing when the listening section is mushed together.

 

Under Renaissance harmony, you write that dissonance is less harsh--but if you listen to some Mannerist madrigals, they're pretty wild harmonically.

 

I think that your study guide might be missing a few pages? When I looked at your quiz, there were composers and pieces that weren't in the guide.

 

Here are a couple suggestions off the top of my head. I'd at least throw in an anthem (Byrd's Sing joyfully unto God is good, and it should be very easy to find a recording). If you have the time, I'd really recommend looking at a complete Mass setting to see how a composer links the movements (Josquin's Missa Pange lingua is nice for this). You might also want to cover a little Protestant music post-Reformation as a contrast.

 

PS: If you like Farmer's "Fair Phyllis", you should listen to the King's Singers' Madrigal History Tour, if you haven't already :)

[greenmamato3]

you're right about Bach not begin around for the First trip of the pilgrims. they would've been more familiar with the renaissance style. i goofed when i said that.

 

i do think, though, they would have been familiar with byrd on some level.

 

:)

they obviously didn't have his greatest hits loaded on their iPods, so probably not much of it made it over in real form and since SURVIVING was much more important than making instruments, i'm sure there was a lag. but surely they would've been familiar with his music before having left england to head to holland.

 

i'm going to believe for myself that they did :)

 

going back to the TOPIC .... :)

i would say that perhaps Naxos has some nice audio books on the history of western music. ??

[helena]

I haven't read the other replies yet, and I may be way off here, but here are my two thoughts:

If you don't already have one, invest in a record player. The kids and I have an awesome collection of popular and obscure music. I've seen some pretty cool record storage boxes at antique malls now that I think of it. It would be kind of fun for everyone to have their own box.

It's a cheap and interesting way to get them to take an active interest, to get them to give opinions, and to let them build personal collections.

 

The other thing that I've liked are the lists you can find of composers and musicians on wiki. I plan on using the lists to find music chronologically on youtube. Here's an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blues_musicians

 

Here's a performance of Blind Blake off this list:

 

It's such an easy way to follow the music. There's also a lot of rare footage of people playing (more contemporary of course). I love that my kids can see Mississippi John Hurt in action, and hear his speaking voice and stories.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-GN-BP_Qlk

 

Here's the classical list:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_classical_music_composers

[Nestof3]

Thanks so much, Tearose. I will rework these when I get closer to using them.

 

Again, it doesn't sound like you need anything other than your own brain to teach your own. ;)

 

Just a couple comments on your Renaissance notes:

 

The Magnificat is part of vespers; it would not be sung on its own in a church.

 

Under Dufay: Alma redemptoris mater is a Marian antiphon, not a motet. Marian antiphons are usually sung at the end of compline (night prayer) or vespers (evening prayer). Alma redemptoris mater would be sung from Advent to Feb 2 (there are three others for different times of the year)

 

When you list the composers on p. 5, it's not really clear that Dufay and Josquin are pre-Reformation and Palestrina is post-Reformation. I think that it makes more sense to look at Renaissance music before the Reformation as one unit and then music after the Reformation as another. It's a little confusing when the listening section is mushed together.

 

Under Renaissance harmony, you write that dissonance is less harsh--but if you listen to some Mannerist madrigals, they're pretty wild harmonically.

 

I think that your study guide might be missing a few pages? When I looked at your quiz, there were composers and pieces that weren't in the guide.

 

Here are a couple suggestions off the top of my head. I'd at least throw in an anthem (Byrd's Sing joyfully unto God is good, and it should be very easy to find a recording). If you have the time, I'd really recommend looking at a complete Mass setting to see how a composer links the movements (Josquin's Missa Pange lingua is nice for this). You might also want to cover a little Protestant music post-Reformation as a contrast.

 

PS: If you like Farmer's "Fair Phyllis", you should listen to the King's Singers' Madrigal History Tour, if you haven't already :)

[Teneo]

I'm wondering if there is a good music history curriculum that doesn't just involve composer studies. DH and I have graduate degrees in music (concentrating in music theory and music history, respectively), and it is the one area of WTM that we're not thrilled about. I feel that some of the composers listed in WTM are "popular" but not necessarily important from a scholarly perspective. Conversely, WTM's lists don't include a number of composers that I would consider significant, especially pre-Bach. I'm also not sold on mainly using biographies to learn about classical music.

3/2

 

So my question is: does anything like this exist? Or am I just going to have to write my own curriculum? DS is still very young, so I'd have some time to work on it, if necessary.

 

Just wanted to say that if there were a curriculum like this, I'd buy it!