No Writing curriculum?

[Kel & the Kids]

Am I hearing this right? :001_huh: I just listened to SWB's Elementary and Middle Grades writing lectures - which I thought were fascinating - but she said a writing program was not necessary (outside of her narration/outline etc. suggestions of course). Is it really that simple? It sounds relatively simple but then I read about people using all these different programs... I guess I'm confused!

 

We've been using SL LA, and the Just Write Workbooks the last few years. Both of my kids are great creative writers but of course I want more than that for them. As SWB said, if these approaches worked then she wouldn't be lecturing. I was an abysmal essay writing when I got to University. I was the abysmal freshman she talks about! ICK.

 

Can anyone enlighten me with their thoughts on using a writing program?

[dragons in the flower bed]

Well, technically, a curriculum is a racetrack, a path, a course to run. It consists of activities and content and skills. There's nothing magic in the books we buy to use. If they keep the child to the track, or if we as parents do it, the job still gets done. But if those programs are a whole different track, might as well not use 'em.

[JennW in SoCal]

In those lectures she is not saying to NOT do any writing instruction. The point is that all the skills your children will need before they are writing essays comes from copy work, dictation, narration, and outlining. Little by little over the years it all adds up. The only additional piece you need is lots of excellent reading material so your kids know what good writing sounds like.

 

It really is that easy, though you have lots of company in not trusting that it alone will work.

 

I only followed SWB's advice and I have produced two solid writers. Really. No writing programs needed.

[Sahamamama]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195490

[Kel & the Kids]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195490

 

Well, gosh, someone beat me to it (the question I had, that is). Thanks for pointing me in that direction. All in all very encouraging! I'd love to try her suggestions but now I won't feel quite so neurotic if add in some stuff from what I already have.

 

Thanks everyone!

[Donna T.]

I was an abysmal essay writing when I got to University. I was the abysmal freshman she talks about! ICK.

 

Can anyone enlighten me with their thoughts on using a writing program?

 

I don't plan to use any writing program other than the writing exercises that are in Rod & Staff English along with Susan's guidelines as she has laid out in her book and in her lectures. We will do a wee little bit of creative writing but it's not a focus for us now and won't be in the future. As far as "teaching", I don't plan to teach much other than Susan's course.

 

I am now reading a wonderful :thumbup: little book entitled The Lively Art of Writing. Someone mentioned it in another thread. I believe it was on the high school board. It may have been JennW?? Anyways, this book is incrediable and very simply lays out how to write essays. It is very well-written and enjoyable to read. It even has exercises following each of the fourteen chapters to help the reader to really understand the information presented. I think that a child who has been doing writing in the way that Susan advocates would zoom through The Lively Art of Writing and will be VERY prepared for college writing. I am starting to use some of the ideas orally with my 11 year old but I think we will work through it together in 8th or 9th grade.

 

I highly suggest it:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lively-Art-Writing-Mentor/dp/0451627121/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279375648&sr=8-1

 

I just wanted to mention it because I feel very encouraged about teaching how to write essays after reading it.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Donna T.

[Colleen in NS]

Is it really that simple?

 

After I listened to Susan speak about writing in all three levels, thought about it a LOT, tried some of the exercises myself, tried the exercises with my kids, poked through my R&S writing lessons, looked through Susan's rhetoric recommendations, and read various posts about writing by JennW in SoCal over the years, I concluded that yes, it really can be that simple! So far, my kids are progressing along in the path she lays out. My kids are 12 and 9. I realize the timeline might not always be the same, but the one-skill-to-the-next is working out in my own kids' time.

[JennyW]

I have no doubt that following SWB's advice gives you kids that can write well, especially with persuasive writing. But there are many other kinds of writing out there that she hasn't addressed. Skill will spill over some, but I'm still very strongly considering adding another writing program from 4th grade on that teaches other kinds of writing skills, too.

[Colleen in NS]

But there are many other kinds of writing out there that she hasn't addressed.

 

She does differentiate between "expository/persuasive" writing skills and "creative" writing skills - is that what you mean? If not, can you give some examples of what you mean? I'm always curious, because from what I can tell, her rhetoric recommendations cover a lot of expository/persuasive skills that I've seen people talk about here. So I wonder, besides that, and besides various creative writing skills, what else is out there.

[siloam]

Am I hearing this right? :001_huh: I just listened to SWB's Elementary and Middle Grades writing lectures - which I thought were fascinating - but she said a writing program was not necessary (outside of her narration/outline etc. suggestions of course). Is it really that simple? It sounds relatively simple but then I read about people using all these different programs... I guess I'm confused!

 

We've been using SL LA, and the Just Write Workbooks the last few years. Both of my kids are great creative writers but of course I want more than that for them. As SWB said, if these approaches worked then she wouldn't be lecturing. I was an abysmal essay writing when I got to University. I was the abysmal freshman she talks about! ICK.

 

Can anyone enlighten me with their thoughts on using a writing program?

My oldest is language centered. She did LA K-2 (the older version with twice the dictation, and we did it as dictation), but I didn't do the creative writing. I had her doing lapbooks instead. About half way through 3rd she started Classical Writing, which is based on the same philosophy as WWE, so she was/is still rewriting stories while working on content. By content I mean changing tense, synonym practice, learning to condense by removing modifiers and expand by adding modifiers and compounds, learning to add direct quotations, changing between plural and singular, ect... She is finishing Homer B and she can rewrite anything and do a report. The next CW level teaches essays.

 

Meanwhile on her own she has written several books. She is editing the first one now, and plans to send it out to 10 publishers. In her editing she uses concepts she has learned from CW, talks about adding detail, and description. I love that she owns these ideas and can use them.

 

The ideas aren't that hard. CW is also set up so that you can buy the core book and do your own thing. The whole methodology is not flashy, actually it can be rather tedious because it is based on doing something till mastery, till it is second nature to do it. I do think it is effective.

 

BTW my 2nd dd is analytical, an engineer type. She needed WWE to teach her how to summarize. I tried every metaphor I could think of to explain summarizing, and I modeled it for her, but she just didn't get it. She started out doing CM narrations (tell as much as possible instead of summarizing) and then one day started telling them like a play. He said, "....", and she ansered, "...." even when summarizing a history event. :001_huh: She only did WWE 1 and 2 and then I was able to have her go back to doing narrations with topics I read aloud anyway. Just saves me a little time to not have to read the models from the WWE workbooks.

 

Heather

[JennyW]

She does differentiate between "expository/persuasive" writing skills and "creative" writing skills - is that what you mean? If not, can you give some examples of what you mean? I'm always curious, because from what I can tell, her rhetoric recommendations cover a lot of expository/persuasive skills that I've seen people talk about here. So I wonder, besides that, and besides various creative writing skills, what else is out there.

 

I realize that creative writing is a separate one, but there are still other kinds of writing such as reports, creative nonfiction, also expository writing about different kinds of things from what she recommends. I don't have a lot of examples, partly because it's first thing in the morning, but I more mean using those same skills for writing in different areas from the ones she suggests.

[Guest]

I realize that creative writing is a separate one, but there are still other kinds of writing such as reports, creative nonfiction, also expository writing about different kinds of things from what she recommends. I don't have a lot of examples, partly because it's first thing in the morning, but I more mean using those same skills for writing in different areas from the ones she suggests.

 

Like you, I find the unrelenting sameness of focus limiting. While formal persuasive writing is certainly an important skill, and while copywork/narration/outlining are all effective tools for working up to essay writing, there are so many other genres and forms that would give kids alternate forums through which to practice many of the same skills and enjoy themselves. Really good non-fiction takes so many forms; there's so much of it published in so many genres these days that kids could use as models or inspiration. It's a roomy and amazing literary world out there.

[swimmermom3]

Like you, I find the unrelenting sameness of focus limiting. While formal persuasive writing is certainly an important skill, and while copywork/narration/outlining are all effective tools for working up to essay writing, there are so many other genres and forms that would give kids alternate forums through which to practice many of the same skills and enjoy themselves. Really good non-fiction takes so many forms; there's so much of it published in so many genres these days that kids could use as models or inspiration. It's a roomy and amazing literary world out there.

 

I was just going to ask Jenn and Colleen if their kids ever get bored doing the same thing over and over. One year, my boys did the Character Development unit for A Christmas Carol in Lightning Lit. Oh I how treasure the final project as it's so reflective of my boys' personalities. Writing has to be fun at some point, doesn't it?

[JennW in SoCal]

Swimmermom3 wrote: I was just going to ask Jenn and Colleen if their kids ever get bored doing the same thing over and over.

 

 

My youngest son and I would probably disagree on whether it is boring and repetitious -- after all he is 15 and wouldn't want me to think he finds school a wondrous delight. :D

 

I would say that it is not repetitive as he reads a wide variety of fiction and non-fiction and gets to decide what to write about. He often writes about science and in a few outside classes had creative assignments like creating a travel brochure for a visitor to a specific biome or writing an epic poem about something he did in his life. I sometimes find fun topics or projects on-line. But he never had a class or curriculum that was all about "how to write" anything in particular. By doing narrations and essays maybe once a week, maybe less, and by all the reading he does, he has the tools and resources for using language for whatever purpose he needs. And he writes VERY well -- won an internship, in fact, to write for the San Diego Zoo's website.

 

The point of copywork, dictation, narrations, outlining, essays and research papers is to give your student a "toolbox" of basic writing skills. It doesn't have to be a separate topic of study, it is part and parcel of every subject. It doesn't have to be daily grind, either, just done regularly. Sure your kids are going to roll their eyes and say "Another narration? I did one last week. This is boring, stupid and pointless." But it is a short task, is usually connected with something interesting you've been reading and it helps both cement the topic in their mind and further cement writing skills.

 

It is like learning a musical instrument. You HAVE to learn key signatures, chords, scales and arpeggios. It is sheer drudgery but the exercises build the dexterity of the fingers and help the brain learn to understand the underlying form of music. Between my formal music training and listening to a wide variety of music I'm able to play both classical music and improvise on either pop or Celtic tunes.

[Colleen in NS]

reports, creative nonfiction, also expository writing about different kinds of things from what she recommends.

 

I guess I see reports as being the same thing as her rec'd. 4th grade narrations and 8th grade rewrites from outlines. And in my mind, "creative non-fiction" is still creative writing - I'm thinking things like making brochures, posters, etc.? And I'm thinking that just because she only mentions history/science/literature for expository writing projects, that these cover a huge range of ideas about which to write. It still seems to me that these basic skills she teaches about can be applicable to a huge range of writing?

 

there are so many other genres and forms that would give kids alternate forums through which to practice many of the same skills and enjoy themselves. Really good non-fiction takes so many forms;

 

Can you give some specific examples of what you mean? I'm a concrete person - which is why SWB's teaching appealed to me.

 

I was just going to ask Jenn and Colleen if their kids ever get bored doing the same thing over and over.

 

Well, they get bored in general at times with having to "do school" :lol:. And I'm rethinking my plan for how many times to do what types of writing each week, so as to not overload them. But getting down to the actual writing? No, I don't think they are bored, because I let them choose what to write about. They might have to write a narration or a dictation or an outline, but they get to choose, within whatever we are currently studying, the topic/book from our profusion of library books, owned books, or encyclopedia articles. So when it comes down to actually going through the routine thinking process to get the sentences formed and onto paper, no, they are not bored - they are engaged in the process for the moment. They know *how* to go through the process now, so I think they enjoy what they turn out on paper. And I think it's especially because they have a routine to use - they don't have to come up with something from scratch and get lost in having to be creative.

 

By doing narrations and essays maybe once a week, maybe less, and by all the reading he does, he has the tools and resources for using language for whatever purpose he needs.

 

This is becoming our experience, too. You are confirming what I'm suspecting - that SWB's way of teaching will be applicable widely. I love reading your posts about this stuff, Jenn! You help me to relax a little more each time I read. :D

 

(little side note Jenn, ever heard of the Barra MacNeills? Dh and kids saw them in concert here last weekend for free - just another Maritime group you might like, besides Natalie!)

[Guest]

Writing has to be fun at some point, doesn't it?

 

Exactly. There has to be enjoyment of the process at some point or it's all such an uphill struggle, with little motivation to continue writing as a lifelong source of pleasure, discovery, experimentation, and way of experiencing the world.

[Guest]

I guess I see reports as being the same thing as her rec'd. 4th grade narrations and 8th grade rewrites from outlines. And in my mind, "creative non-fiction" is still creative writing - I'm thinking things like making brochures, posters, etc.? And I'm thinking that just because she only mentions history/science/literature for expository writing projects, that these cover a huge range of ideas about which to write. It still seems to me that these basic skills she teaches about can be applicable to a huge range of writing?

 

Can you give some specific examples of what you mean? I'm a concrete person - which is why SWB's teaching appealed to me.

 

 

My answer comes from the very particular child I have, who has been an out-of-the-box writer since childhood. Interestingly, she also struggled with dysgraphia throughout much of her early childhood. Working outside the WTM curriculum/approach was necessary for me for both these reasons; but I want to say before I even get into this that I understand that for many families there's no need to do that, that the kids can get what suits their learning needs perfectly well from simply following her program. And everybody wants their kids to be able to produce an effective piece of argument

 

The skills TWTM teaches can indeed be widely applicable to different subject areas. It is not so clear that they can be applied as widely to different modes or genres within the non-fiction field. I also find the split between persuasive/analytical writing on one hand and creative writing on the other too dogmatic. In real life, writers are crossing and complicating these boundaries all the time in fascinating ways.

 

I will give you a metaphor first. In her book on writing in the classroom, Lucy Calkins (who is largely responsible for the massive emphasis on personal narrative in elementary classrooms in the past twenty years) talks about kids keeping a writer's notebook. They should carry this with them and write in it all the time, she says, offering suggestions for the kinds of things they might use as entries: a dream, a description of a person walking down the street, a study of a small area of garden or even sidewalk, etc.

 

Okay, the writer's notebook idea is a really interesting one, and could be very helpful in developing kids' fluency and descriptive powers. However, the way she defines the notebook limits it dramatically. Her model is a poet's notebook. Why shouldn't a child be encouraged, depending on her personal preference and learning bent, to keep an artist's notebook? An engineer's notebook? A notebook of drawings rather than paragraphs? Of material color samples and textures with accompanying notes? Of sketches of art around the city? Of facts about tides, or the solar system, or bird-watching notes, or studies of bugs? Why shouldn't they talk about a whole variety of different ways one could use a notebook instead of being told to record conversations or dreams in it?

 

Furthermore, Calkins is adamant that a notebook or journal should never be what she calls a "dead-end" for writing. By this she means that everything that goes in it is to be mined for later "pieces" meant to share in the classroom, be "published." It is never right, in her opinion, to write merely for one's private self.

 

Okay. I see a related, although clearly not as restrictive, version of writing in the WTM program. Formal essays, context papers, and reports are not the only legitimate kinds of non-fiction; I think an argument could even be made that they are not necessarily the most important ones, or the ones best suited to helping every child unite thinking, the development of written fluency, and analytical ordering of content. The WTM skills (which I do think are valuable) might be generalizable to a wider range of styles and genres, so why not allow kids the leeway to do just that? What about journalism, both newspaper style and more investigative, lengthy, musing? What about comic book versions of history or science for more visual kids, who think and learn best through images but still are working within the classical model's emphasis on writing? What about playing with the transformation from one genre to another? There are perfectly serious comic book or manga versions of everything from world history to calculus to physics, that people find very useful and even more readily understandable than textbooks. Bill Bryson briliiantly unites informational writing on science, geography, personal life with musings, anecdotes, and occasional satire? Writers like Jonathan Swift regularly used satire to make a more powerful impact than they would have been able to make with a more straightforward, serious essay on the same subject.

 

I see nothing wrong at all with an emphasis, even a heavy emphasis, on the development of classic persuasive and explanatory writing skills. I think an insistently exclusive focus on those skills is limiting, and for many kids (including my daughter first and foremost), a joy-killer. Writing can be playful, exploratory, and transgressive as well as persuasive, serious, and effective. These categories are not oppositions; they do not have to exclude one another.

 

Now there may indeed be kids out there who find they can play mentally and linguistically within the format of a conventional persuasive essay. Or there may be kids who find that the straightfoward persuasive essay, no play involved, can bring them satisfaction as their ability to write such an essay gradually improves. However, I suspect they are few and far between. And my own child needs that space for play -- that spielraum -- to be far larger, at least right now. Writing, for her, is a mental field of play, and it's so vital for her that I don't think it is useful or appropriate to tell her she can go do that in her free time, and insist that she respond to what she reads with an endless repetition of narration and outlining and now, essays.

 

It's not that these skills are not tremendously important. It's that my particular child does not thrive under a steady diet of practicing them; and I believe she can acquire and hone the same skills while still following her own literary persuasions.

[Colleen in NS]

The skills TWTM teaches can indeed be widely applicable to different subject areas. It is not so clear that they can be applied as widely to different modes or genres within the non-fiction field.

 

I'm thinking that's because even in the non-fiction field, some of these other genres are more creative-oriented. The only two I can think of at the moment are making brochures, and journalism. Still, I think that even within these, basic narration and outline skills would still come in handy.

 

In real life, writers are crossing and complicating these boundaries all the time in fascinating ways.

 

I get that. I just still think that your basic "get these thoughts into words and onto paper" routine underlies being able to start crossing the boundaries, if one is creatively inclined.

 

Why shouldn't a child be encouraged, depending on her personal preference and learning bent, to keep an artist's notebook? An engineer's notebook? A notebook of drawings rather than paragraphs? Of material color samples and textures with accompanying notes? Of sketches of art around the city? Of facts about tides, or the solar system, or bird-watching notes, or studies of bugs? Why shouldn't they talk about a whole variety of different ways one could use a notebook instead of being told to record conversations or dreams in it?

 

Because some kids (my ds) couldn't care less about this type of activity. I *have* made various suggestions of this sort to him, and he is not interested. I tried having him do the journal thing, the list your favourite foods thing, and various other creative activities in the past. He hates it. But he has occasionally dug out our old typewriter (before he learned to type on the computer) and composed short sci-fi type of stories for fun. So he gets the occasional urge for something like that, but I would not include it in our regular school time as writing practice, because it would just frustrate him. That's why I relegate things like that to "free time." For my daughter, too, who actually likes writing poems, stories, fun lists, journal entries. She *will* do these things on her own.

 

The WTM skills (which I do think are valuable) might be generalizable to a wider range of styles and genres, so why not allow kids the leeway to do just that? What about journalism, both newspaper style and more investigative, lengthy, musing? What about comic book versions of history or science for more visual kids, who think and learn best through images but still are working within the classical model's emphasis on writing? What about playing with the transformation from one genre to another?

 

For us, leeway yes; included in school time, no. Too time consuming for me, too ruining-of-fun for them. I'd rather they spend their "school time" on basic learning skills (math, grammar, narration/dictation, outlining, Latin, logic, spelling), so that they have plenty of time later in the day for reading, experimenting, learning to put things on the timeline, drawing lesson, craft, life skills, free time to do what they are interested in (Lego, arranging dolls, crafts, playing outside, pretending, drawing, more Lego, more reading, drawing Star Wars figures)

 

I see nothing wrong at all with an emphasis, even a heavy emphasis, on the development of classic persuasive and explanatory writing skills. I think an insistently exclusive focus on those skills is limiting, and for many kids (including my daughter first and foremost), a joy-killer. Writing can be playful, exploratory, and transgressive as well as persuasive, serious, and effective. These categories are not oppositions; they do not have to exclude one another.

 

I'm not sure that people who use SWB's methods are insistently exclusively focusing on those skills. I know we don't. I think many people are relieved to find that maybe we really don't need to use these expensive, all-inclusive programs for our kids who really don't need all that extra. We can pare things down, get these very basic skills down pat, and then either let our kids fly free to write as they wish, or to get the creative soul a more creative writing program or get him/her going on some of these more fun-sounding ideas you list. I might do a creative thing with my dd, but I might not. I don't really have the time to add in something else for her, but if she's reading (for that matter, if ds is reading), that will influence any creative bent she might have, and she, if she has the time to wander, will try out some things for herself.

 

It's that my particular child does not thrive under a steady diet of practicing them; and I believe she can acquire and hone the same skills while still following her own literary persuasions.

 

It sounds like you have a more creative bent, too, and so it's probably easier for you to take the more creative ideas and work in the basic same skills, and allow her to have some fun at it. My mother was an elementary school teacher, so when I started homeschooling, she gave me all sorts of creative writing ideas to do with my son. Problem was, he didn't get excited about writing by doing any of that stuff. And I certainly didn't know how to teach skills through any of it. It was too non-concrete for me to understand. :lol: The WTM/writing lectures gave me a very firm, concrete, practical foundation to use with my kids. I just figure that if they want to try out some other types of writing, that these things will come in very handy for that. Don't story writers have to write an outline of their story first? Or journalism people? I took journalism in high school a very long time ago, and I vaguely remember having some type of formulas to follow for different types of journalistic stories....that's sort of outlining in my mind.

 

Anyway, when someone asks if it really can be this simple, I pipe up with a YES because it was such a relief to me to find this out. I liked JennW in SoCal's description of having to drudgingly learn basic music things (I don't even know the proper terms - I didn't learn music properly) in order to get more creative with it. This is the same thing, to me. I don't discourage creative writing - I just don't make my kids do it, and I encourage it when they do try it out.

[Guest]

Like I said, I have a very particular child for whom not being allowed to play with her response to what she reads and thinks in different written formats would be slow intellectual death. I am perfectly aware that what suits her does not suit every kid! But i don't separate "academic" skills or the school part of responding to content from her playful approach -- and neither does she. We don't "do" school-type narration to get it over with and then have free time for something else. The something else IS school for us. For my daughter, this incorporates many of the same skills SWB's more straightforward program does.

 

Much of my ease with this approach comes from extensive graduate work in the theory and teaching of writing plus the reading of biographies of a lot of women writers who were not formally educated in writing. I'm always absolutely captivated by what they did in their childhoods, what they read, what they produced, how they hid it or shared it with family, how it intersected with the formal work their brothers were usually doing. Some of these women went briefly to school and hated it, finding it stifling to their own motivations. Others found that at a certain period in their lives they were eager for someone to take charge and teach them how to polish and discipline their writing. But none learned how to write by doing exercises such as TWTM recommends. It's not that I'm tossing these out the window. It's that I see them as one method among many, and as I said, I recognize my daughter as one child for whom this one method is not the most practical or best suited to her internal writing drive and direction. My daughter's own method has also produced a child who can write outlines and persuasive essays.

[momto2Cs]

I'm not planning on using one with either child next year. My 4th grader will do mainly written narrations (still some oral though) and my 2nd grader will do copywork and oral narration. I'll go over mistakes with the 4th grader. Oh, and he'll be journaling most days.

[JennW in SoCal]

I just lost a brilliant post.

 

In brief. I was responding to the initial question -- is SWB's writing methodology enough -- and my answer is yes. Just as my kids needed phonics instruction to learn to read, some kids need instruction in learning to write, and this methodology is straightforward and adaptable to any subject or creative impulse.

 

Many kids learn to read without any phonics. Many kids start writing without prompts from writing programs. Many kids learn to play an instrument by ear. None of these kids should be forced to drill the basic stuff they learned innately, yet they will still need guidance and instruction to move beyond the basics into advanced work. It is a different situation with unique challenges, one that requires a creative and responsive teacher who won't crush the initiative and the joy. I think Karen is facing this with her own dd who seems to have that creative impulse to express herself with words.

[Colleen in NS]

But i don't separate "academic" skills or the school part of responding to content from her playful approach -- and neither does she.

 

Here, I have to separate these, or we wouldn't have time to adequately cover other academic skills I want my kids to have. To me, SWB's methods are *efficient* (it takes maybe 15-20 min. to do a narration, or a dictation, or an outline - we only do one of these per day, and sometimes skip a day's writing activity - yet their skills are building over time), leaving the time for plenty of reading and exploring (both of which produce things to write about around here!)

 

It's that I see them as one method among many

 

I hear you on using various creative ways with your dd, esp. since she likes that, to impart the same skills. I just see these skills as underlying many other ones, and I need to use my time differently, so I like the short efficiency of SWB's methods. I'm fairly confident that they will be useful to my kids, should they want to try out different methods of writing expression at any time.

[Colleen in NS]

It is a different situation with unique challenges, one that requires a creative and responsive teacher who won't crush the initiative and the joy. I think Karen is facing this with her own dd who seems to have that creative impulse to express herself with words.

 

I hear you. :)

[AKMsMom]

So, I have read all of your posts, but have not heard SWB's speech. I have a 4th grade son and we are using Rod and Staff 4. I was thinking of adding Writing Strands 3 in place of the compostion lessons in R & S. However, I have been looking at the lessons in both books and like them both. Now I don't know what to do. Should I just use R & S and not the WS, is that what I am hearing?

[Annabel Lee]

AKMsMom, you could do just the R&S writing lessons alongside the WTM copywork/narrations/dictations for 4th grade and that would be enough. If you don't feel it's overkill for your particular child & WS looks like something you want to do (if it's not redundant to the other writing activities - I haven't seen WS), do what suits you. I don't know how many writing lessons R&S 4 has, but if it's similar in amount to level 3, I think you're safe unless your child really loathes writing.

 

I've really enjoyed reading this thread! Alongside the WTM narrations & WWE, I use a bit of 8FillTheHeart's writing ideas too. My kids do a weekly "write-up" on something from history, sci., or lit. I try to use ideas from different sources. This week they're studying Columbus in history, and we got a copy of Columbus' original journal writings on ILL. My hand-me-down copy of LLATL Orange has a lesson on journal writing. My boys are ALL about their imaginary "Dog Land" which they made up for their stuffies. So, they're going to do a write-up consisting of a Dog Land character's journal pretending that character was on Columbus' ship. Would that be historical narrative fiction? I take the objective of the lesson (from whatever curric. I'm pulling ideas from - that varies) & apply it to our history, science, or lit. topics instead of the unrelated topics they usually offer. My 2nd grader will do it at his level, practicing sentence structure. My 4th grader will work on a decent paragraph. They're so excited that they want to make it into a movie when they're done.

 

Does this sound like something that could be effective? I'm pretty much experimenting on my kids with this. :)

Edited July 20, 2010 by Annabel Lee

[Melissa in Australia]

Well, technically, a curriculum is a racetrack, a path, a course to run. .

 

sometimes it seems like a very long distance run.