Where do I start?

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I'm sitting here with a heavy heart. I have an amazing, beautiful eight year old boy that is so smart, and so deep, yet needs so much help.

 

We've struggled for years with reading and language skills (I wouldn't be surprised if it's APD). As he gets older he is becoming angrier and more resistant to our homeschooling efforts. He feels stupid. He tries so hard, fails, then won't try again for a long time. Pair this with being sandwiched between two a highly gifted brothers, and you have a little boy who, I fear, will give up all together if I don't get him some kind of help soon.

 

The service coordinator for our public school's speech therapy department is going to test him before the summer is over, but I'm pretty sure he won't qualify for services. I've heard from several people that your child can have severe language issues, but he won't qualify for services if they aren't coupled with speech issues.

 

He has a well-child visit scheduled with our FP doctor in about three weeks. I plan to ask him about some of the issues I'm seeing.

 

Other than that, is there any thing else I can be doing? Feel free to ask any questions. I'm too upset at the moment to think straight. I know I probably haven't given enough information here for my post to make a lot of sense.

 

We have the resources to commit to getting him whatever therapy he may need.

[LittleHouseHomeschool]

APD is an interesting disability. Have you read, "When the Brain Can't Hear," by Terri Bellis? If not, that would be the first thing I would recommend while you are waiting for testing. It is packed full of helpful information, spelled out so that you can grasp what you are dealing with. In addition, it covers possible treatments and accommodations. These are things you will want to know about in advance of testing.

 

Secondly, I would go into the testing situation in a position of strength. Know what they are testing for and why. Be familiar with the tests and how they are scored. You are your child's primary educator and advocate. Be as educated as you can about APD before you begin testing. That said, testing in and of itself, is an eduation. It's easy to become overwhelmed, and this is why I'm recommending the Bellis book prior to testing.

 

We followed this sequence:

 

1. A hearing test with an audiologist at the local hospital - to rule out hearing loss. The test at the pediatrician's office is absolutely useless for this purpose.

 

2. A Central Auditory Processing Test with the audiologist at the local hospital. This will give you an initial diagnosis. APD is an umbrella diagnosis and actually contains many subskills. If one component is out of whack, it all goes awry. That said, most APD kids have more than one component issue. (My son has two...and it's very common to have two or more APD issues.) This was a test given in a sound booth by a licensed speech and hearing pathologist/audiologist.

 

3. A referral to a APD specialist (speech/hearing pathologist) who will test your child further. CELF, TAPS and preferably more...based on the CAPD test above. Many APD kids test within "normal scaled range," but that doesn't mean they don't have APD. Our specialist tested both receptive and expressive language skills (hearing, writing, speaking, grammar/mechanics, comprehension) and will ask you to fill out a questionaire as the child's primary educator. This testing took two days...two hours a day. From this composite of information a complete diagnosis was made and treatment recommendations were given.

 

Of all these tests only the first one was covered by insurance. Everything else was out of pocket...including treatment.

[jentancalann]

Subscribing. I'm in a similar situation. So sorry :-(

[merry gardens]

I'm sitting here with a heavy heart. I have an amazing, beautiful eight year old boy that is so smart, and so deep, yet needs so much help.

 

We've struggled for years with reading and language skills (I wouldn't be surprised if it's APD). As he gets older he is becoming angrier and more resistant to our homeschooling efforts. He feels stupid. He tries so hard, fails, then won't try again for a long time. Pair this with being sandwiched between two a highly gifted brothers, and you have a little boy who, I fear, will give up all together if I don't get him some kind of help soon.

 

The service coordinator for our public school's speech therapy department is going to test him before the summer is over, but I'm pretty sure he won't qualify for services. I've heard from several people that your child can have severe language issues, but he won't qualify for services if they aren't coupled with speech issues.

 

He has a well-child visit scheduled with our FP doctor in about three weeks. I plan to ask him about some of the issues I'm seeing.

 

Other than that, is there any thing else I can be doing? Feel free to ask any questions. I'm too upset at the moment to think straight. I know I probably haven't given enough information here for my post to make a lot of sense.

 

We have the resources to commit to getting him whatever therapy he may need.

:grouphug:

 

You wrote you think it might be APD. Since you mentioned reading too, have you considered it might be (or also be) dyslexia? Some children with dyslexia are really very bright. The discrepancy between inteligence and reading ability is sometimes of the things they look for in diagnosing dyslexia. Dyslexia often pairs up with other problems, like audiotory processing problems too. If you search old thread here, there are numerous discussions about dyslexia. Here's a couple links on dyslexia that might interest you. http://www.dys-add.com/testing.html and http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html

Edited July 10, 2010 by merry gardens
add another link

[EKS]

I would start by assuming that he is gifted (it sounds like you are already doing this). My son is highly gifted and also has APD, dyslexia, and ADHD. He struggled mightily with reading and still struggles with spelling and writing as well as with language issues that are hard to pinpoint.

 

Some things that worked for my son at that age:

 

Except during reading instruction, I read *everything* aloud. When the material was more difficult or if it was dense (as in a math word problem), I would slow my speech way down. I repeated as necessary. I was a full time scribe for two years, and then part time for several more.

 

Approaching things this way, my son was able to advance quickly in math. He was one grade ahead of level by the end of 2nd grade, two grades ahead by the end of 3rd, and three grades ahead at the end of 4th (he has since cashed in on that time and is no longer so far ahead). The reason I mention this is that I decided at the beginning of 2nd grade that he needed to be "good" at something academic and at that time math was the only possibility. So even though reading was really, really hard, he knew he was good at math and that helped tremendously.

 

My son eventually learned how to read and is now doing extremely well. He still reads slowly, but his comprehension is excellent.

 

Have you looked into dyslexia? I was convinced that APD was my son's only problem for quite some time, but it was in fact only one of them. The book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz is great. You don't mention specifically what is going on, but I do know that APD, vision issues, sensory processing problems, and attention problems tend to go with dyslexia.

 

We also had success with a program called Audiblox.

 

It might take more than one try to get a reasonable diagnosis. My suggestion is to keep reading and trying new things.

 

I hear your pain. I went through the same thing when my son was 8.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

APD is an interesting disability. Have you read, "When the Brain Can't Hear," by Terri Bellis? If not, that would be the first thing I would recommend while you are waiting for testing. It is packed full of helpful information, spelled out so that you can grasp what you are dealing with. In addition, it covers possible treatments and accommodations. These are things you will want to know about in advance of testing.

 

Secondly, I would go into the testing situation in a position of strength. Know what they are testing for and why. Be familiar with the tests and how they are scored. You are your child's primary educator and advocate. Be as educated as you can about APD before you begin testing. That said, testing in and of itself, is an eduation. It's easy to become overwhelmed, and this is why I'm recommending the Bellis book prior to testing.

 

We followed this sequence:

 

1. A hearing test with an audiologist at the local hospital - to rule out hearing loss. The test at the pediatrician's office is absolutely useless for this purpose.

 

2. A Central Auditory Processing Test with the audiologist at the local hospital. This will give you an initial diagnosis. APD is an umbrella diagnosis and actually contains many subskills. If one component is out of whack, it all goes awry. That said, most APD kids have more than one component issue. (My son has two...and it's very common to have two or more APD issues.) This was a test given in a sound booth by a licensed speech and hearing pathologist/audiologist.

 

3. A referral to a APD specialist (speech/hearing pathologist) who will test your child further. CELF, TAPS and preferably more...based on the CAPD test above. Many APD kids test within "normal scaled range," but that doesn't mean they don't have APD. Our specialist tested both receptive and expressive language skills (hearing, writing, speaking, grammar/mechanics, comprehension) and will ask you to fill out a questionaire as the child's primary educator. This testing took two days...two hours a day. From this composite of information a complete diagnosis was made and treatment recommendations were given.

 

Of all these tests only the first one was covered by insurance. Everything else was out of pocket...including treatment.

 

Thanks for all this great info. I haven't read that book...I think I'll go get it soon! I've been doing a lot of researching to try and find out what services are available here locally and found out that an acquaintance of mine works at one of the largest speech/language therapy clinics in the area. Hopefully I can get some helpful guidance from her.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Subscribing. I'm in a similar situation. So sorry :-(

 

:grouphug: It's hard, isn't it?

[Oak Knoll Mom]

:grouphug:

 

You wrote you think it might be APD. Since you mentioned reading too, have you considered it might be (or also be) dyslexia? Some children with dyslexia are really very bright. The discrepancy between inteligence and reading ability is sometimes of the things they look for in diagnosing dyslexia. Dyslexia often pairs up with other problems, like audiotory processing problems too. If you search old thread here, there are numerous discussions about dyslexia. Here's a couple links on dyslexia that might interest you. http://www.dys-add.com/testing.html and http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html

 

I have no doubt that there is dyslexia involved. I just think APD is at the root of the issue with him. It's almost like English is his second language. (It's not...English is the only language he's exposed to.) He will frequently use a word that is almost right. For example, he told me he saw a tribe of deer in the backyard. Tribe/herd...similar, but not the same. He does this *all the time*.

 

Actually, my degree is in Special Education. The problem is that I taught high school. By the students got to me they had been in the system for years, so I know very little about evaluation and therapy. My students reached me already defeated and I want to stop that process with my son.

 

Thank you for the links. I haven't seen that site before!

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I would start by assuming that he is gifted (it sounds like you are already doing this). My son is highly gifted and also has APD, dyslexia, and ADHD. He struggled mightily with reading and still struggles with spelling and writing as well as with language issues that are hard to pinpoint.

 

Some things that worked for my son at that age:

 

Except during reading instruction, I read *everything* aloud. When the material was more difficult or if it was dense (as in a math word problem), I would slow my speech way down. I repeated as necessary. I was a full time scribe for two years, and then part time for several more.

 

This is one of those things that I'm going to have to come to grips with. It exhausts me to even think about having to do this on top of trying to keep up with my other two. Add housework, cooking, etc on top of all that and I start to panic. (My other two need me just as much as this one does, but for opposite reasons.)

 

Approaching things this way, my son was able to advance quickly in math. He was one grade ahead of level by the end of 2nd grade, two grades ahead by the end of 3rd, and three grades ahead at the end of 4th (he has since cashed in on that time and is no longer so far ahead). The reason I mention this is that I decided at the beginning of 2nd grade that he needed to be "good" at something academic and at that time math was the only possibility. So even though reading was really, really hard, he knew he was good at math and that helped tremendously.

 

I used to think he was math bright, but I'm not seeing that as much anymore. What he does excel in is art. The child draws things and creates things that amaze some professional artists I know. I've been trying to get him to take art classes, but he's very resistant to it because in his words, "I don't want someone telling me what to draw. I have my own things in my head that I need to draw."

 

Oh, he also excels in emotional intelligence. He can read a person and what they are feeling like I've never seen in a child. He is a mile deep. He thinks deep thoughts.

 

Unfortunately in our society intelligence is measured in math and language.

My son eventually learned how to read and is now doing extremely well. He still reads slowly, but his comprehension is excellent.

 

That's wonderful and encouraging!

Have you looked into dyslexia? I was convinced that APD was my son's only problem for quite some time, but it was in fact only one of them. The book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz is great. You don't mention specifically what is going on, but I do know that APD, vision issues, sensory processing problems, and attention problems tend to go with dyslexia.

 

We also had success with a program called Audiblox.

 

I'll check into that.

 

 

It might take more than one try to get a reasonable diagnosis. My suggestion is to keep reading and trying new things.

 

I hear your pain. I went through the same thing when my son was 8.

 

 

Thanks. It's good to know that there are others out there who have blazed the trail already.

[merry gardens]

I have no doubt that there is dyslexia involved. I just think APD is at the root of the issue with him. It's almost like English is his second language. (It's not...English is the only language he's exposed to.) He will frequently use a word that is almost right. For example, he told me he saw a tribe of deer in the backyard. Tribe/herd...similar, but not the same. He does this *all the time*.

 

Actually, my degree is in Special Education. The problem is that I taught high school. By the students got to me they had been in the system for years, so I know very little about evaluation and therapy. My students reached me already defeated and I want to stop that process with my son.

 

Thank you for the links. I haven't seen that site before!

I'm glad the links interested you. As I understand it, dyslexia usually has some root cause, either auditory (like phonemic awareness and APD) or visual or both.

 

My son does similar things with words. He uses some weird and funky word choices that are close, but not quite right. It's getting better, but I no longer assume that he understands what simple words mean.

 

I confess that we didn't have a lot of luck with testing back when my son was younger. I tried to figure out exactly what was going on, but he was also really smart and that masked some of the issues he had when he was younger. People kept telling me he was "normal", but his struggles were not normal, and I knew it. We had his vision, hearing, and speech tested, searching for the underlying problem. First speech therapist through the school district said he was "within normal" at age 4. I took him to a second speech therapist when he was six, and the only thing that showed up was a phonological processing problem. She referred us to a pediatric audiologist--who unfortunately only tested my son's hearing with whole words, rather than checking the individual sounds within words. (Make sure they check that your son can distinguish individual phenomes from similar sounding ones.) We did a program recommended by the private speech therapist, but the following year when I decided to use a program developed for people with dyslexia, the brief little screening tool showed that his phonological processing was still a problem that needed to be addressed further.

 

I work with my son without having a formal diagnosis. He just turned nine. I'm less interesting in finding an official diagnosis now that I've figured out how to slowly correct the situation. I don't mean to discourage you from getting the proper diagnosis and treatment. Pursue that. BUT, if people tell you that he's a "normal little boy" or if they can't quite pin point the problem, you can still proceed toward fixing the problem(s) based on what you know of your son. I knew that reading was a problem and in trying to address that I stumbled onto materials that address some of the other things going on in my son.

 

Since you are a special education teacher, you might be already familiar with Lindamood-Bell and other special education products. Lindamood-Bell also have some learning centers, but I use their materials at home. Here's a link to a place that sells some great special ed materials http://www.ganderpublishing.com/LiPS/ By using their LiPS program, I remediated my son's phonological awareness to the point where I could use Barton's reading program for dyslexia. Barton's is a fabulous program for people with dyslexia, and I am extremely thankful that their initial screening pointed me to the LiPS program.

 

I also discovered several other great products and programs. Lindamood-Bell's Seeing Star's program has some cute little workbooks that define and use some of the simple words I just took for granted that people knew the meaning of. One book and system on dyslexia by Ron Davis, (The Gift of Dyslexia) mentions the "gift" that many people with dyslexia have is for visualizing without words. He says that words that are difficult to visualized pose problems for some people. We tried many of Davis' techniques, like working with clay, the year before I discovered LiPs. My son's problem wasn't simply being a visual learner, (which he is), because he also lacked a critical auditory component. However, understanding the meaning of some simple words was a problem for him too that also needed to be addressed. Other helpful books were Lindamood's Vanilla Vocabulary, which help us go through some very basic words and make sure he understood them and how to use them correctly. I stopped taking it for granted that my son knew what simple words meant.

 

I really wish you the best of luck in pinpointing exactly what's happening with your son. You are starting at a good point by searching for a diagnosis. Make sure that there's nothing obviously wrong with his vision or hearing. Since you suspect auditory processing problems, then ask specifically about that. Hopefully the professionals you work with will be able to help determine the specific problem(s) and direct you to appropriate treatment and learning materials.

Edited July 10, 2010 by merry gardens

[Tiramisu]

I was sure dd had APD, but when I had her tested for it, the Ph.D. audiologist said she did wonderfully on the test and definitely did not have APD. I couldn't believe it. For years following that I gave up and didn't pursue other testing, but I really should have. I just didn't know anything about it or where to start. Finally, just this summer, we did just one test that answered so many questions for me. I would encourage you to pursue a thorough learning evaluation. I'm not an expert and wouldn't know where to start so I can't really advise on where to go. I was just lucky to find an office of independent educational consultants nearby who do testing. I now wonder if dd's life would have been better if I understood her challenges earlier on.

 

:grouphug:

[merry gardens]

...I used to think he was math bright, but I'm not seeing that as much anymore. ...

One more thought on math. (Forgive me for going on and on about my experience with own son, but it might be similar to what's going on with yours.) If you really used to think your son had a gift for math, double check your son's math mistakes for "dyslexic-like" tendencies.

 

My son used to confuse and reverse the shape of certain numbers, so he'd sometimes write 6 instead of 9. He reversed the order of his answers sometimes, writing things like 21 instead of 12. He even confused math signs, like + and -. Yet he understood the basic underlying principles of math very well. When encountering a math problem, like "9-9" he might have answered "21" BUT what he really was demonstrating knowledge of was that 6+6=12 while also demonstrating trouble with left to right orientation, number reversals and confusion about math signs.

 

Memory work can also present problems for people prone to dyslexia. My son struggled just learning to count. Repition, hands on materials and teaching styles for visual learners can sometimes help.

 

One book on visual learners uses the term "twice gifted" to refer to people "gifted" with intellectual ability combined with a learning disorder. I am very glad that I check my son's his math answers closely for what he was trying to say and to catch what he was doing and correct him every time. He is remarkable gifted in math! But it wasn't showing up. Instead, he just looked "average"--even troubled--with math, when he really had a gift combined with a disability.

[EKS]

If you really used to think your son had a gift for math, double check your son's math mistakes for "dyslexic-like" tendencies.

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[HeidiD]

I'm sitting here with a heavy heart. I have an amazing, beautiful eight year old boy that is so smart, and so deep, yet needs so much help.

 

We've struggled for years with reading and language skills (I wouldn't be surprised if it's APD). As he gets older he is becoming angrier and more resistant to our homeschooling efforts. He feels stupid. He tries so hard, fails, then won't try again for a long time. Pair this with being sandwiched between two a highly gifted brothers, and you have a little boy who, I fear, will give up all together if I don't get him some kind of help soon.

 

The service coordinator for our public school's speech therapy department is going to test him before the summer is over, but I'm pretty sure he won't qualify for services. I've heard from several people that your child can have severe language issues, but he won't qualify for services if they aren't coupled with speech issues.

 

He has a well-child visit scheduled with our FP doctor in about three weeks. I plan to ask him about some of the issues I'm seeing.

 

Other than that, is there any thing else I can be doing? Feel free to ask any questions. I'm too upset at the moment to think straight. I know I probably haven't given enough information here for my post to make a lot of sense.

 

We have the resources to commit to getting him whatever therapy he may need.

 

Be encouraged - as hard as this is to deal with, we're fortunate these days in that we have so much information and so many great resources and services available. Plus 8 years old is very young, so you have plenty of time to work on the problem.

 

I have an 11 yo diagnosed with APD and he is also dyslexic. From your description, your son's difficulties sound similar. It's good that you're starting with a speech eval since you'll need to submit one as part of an APD assessment.

 

Also, you may need to get a neuropsychological eval as part of a CAPD assessment.

 

Consider the observations you've made while working with him and analyze his reading. There are different reasons for dyslexia - problems with eye function which might require vision therapy, visual processing problems (the eye sees normally but the symbols get garbled between the eye and the brain), auditory dyslexia, and combinations of the above. So before you choose therapy or learning materials, it's best to have a handle on the specific problem(s) you need to address.

 

My son's case was quite severe. He has both visual processing and auditory processing problems. He's now reading at grade level (probably above, at this point). When we started working with him, it seemed like a giant mountain we would never be able to climb. But we did, and you can, too.

 

What worked for him was 1) figuring out the underlying causes, 2) selecting the most efficient materials for the job, and 3) Reading, reading reading!!!!!! Dyslexics need to read MORE, not less, even though they hate it. The repetition, combined with effective multisensory methods actually helps to rewire the brain. So he was inundated with print (books, software, workbooks). At one point, we had a tag team going - he would read with me, read with his older siblings, and read with my husband, all in the course of a day. For a year, reading was his curriculum.

 

Other posters have mentioned Lindamood Bell. I credit their LiPS program with my son being able to read at all. He also used Seeing Star software (for spelling, but helps with reading at the same time), and Visualizing and Verbalizing. Some other companies with products we used heavily were Linguisystems, High Noon Books, and Teacher Created Resources. We also used various materials for working on reading fluency, and Rewards for syllabification. You'll be able to get lots of great suggestions from this board - so many helpful, knowledgeable members here.

 

Regarding the ramifications of being surrounded by gifted siblings, this is something you can capitalize on. This is such a benefit - they can learn to work on their own, freeing up more time for you to work with your son. My 7 yo grabbed some of the remedial materials purchased for his brother and taught himself to read last year. At this point he can read anything I put in front of him. Now 5 yo appears to be teaching herself to read. This is so freeing.

 

I was concerned about the psychological effects, so I've really tried to encourage his interests aside from academics, and praise and encourage him along the way. And his interests eventually drew him into reading books on his own. He was drawn to history, particularly the Civil War and the Old West, and he began picking up books on these subjects and reading more and more. More importantly, he seems very comfortable about who he is, and doesn't define himself by his weaknesses. And really, these struggles are not all bad - they help a person develop resiliency.

 

I hope this will encourage you. I remember how sad I felt when the extent of his difficulties became clear - it's like going through a period of mourning. But once you identify effective strategies and begin moving forward, things will look brighter. Good luck!!! :)

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

There are some great options and programs for having things read aloud to you, if you start a new post people could recommend some...I know I've seen several different things mentioned from programs that read any pdf file to you to special books on tape from the school for the blind and dyslexic.

[LizzyBee]

My just-turned-9-yo has APD, dyslexia, ADHD, and SPD. She has had speech and language therapy since she was 3. We did LiPS when she was 7, then began Barton Reading and Spelling, which is an Orton-Gillingham based program. She has also had OT twice, for about six months each time. Her last OT started Interactive Metronome, which she is still doing with her speech therapist.

 

The author of Barton Reading has a companion site that is a wealth of information about dyslexia - http://www.dys-add.com.

 

There is a student screening test at http://www.bartonreading.com that can help you determine whether your son needs LiPS before beginning an OG (or any phonics) program. LiPS is used to build phonemic awareness and will also improve auditory memory. You can buy the clinical kit and teach it at home, or you can find a tutor or speech therapist who is trained to teach it.

 

My favorite books about dyslexia and other LDs are The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide (MDs who have children with LDs and homeschooled for awhile), The Everything Parents Guide to Dyslexia by Abigail Marshall, Upside Down Brilliance by Linda Kreger Silverman, and The Secret Life of the Dyslexic Child by Robert Frank and Kathryn Livingston.