starting TOG w/9th grader?

[Aloha2U]

I hope you all will bear with me here... I am a planner and as such I have roughly outlined a history plan for 1st through 12th grade. I realize that plans can change at any given time during our hs journey, but my hope in posting here is that I can get some constructive feedback... especially from anyone who planned or has traveled a similar path as outlined below.

 

K5: American history overview, basic geography

1st: CC Cycle 2, history overview w/CHOW, and geography w/A Child's Geography Volumes 1 & 2

2nd: Veritas Press Old Testament & Ancient Egypt / New Testament, Greece & Rome combined

3rd: Veritas Press Middle Ages, Rennaissance & Reformation

4th: Veritas Press Explorers-1815

5th: Veritas Press 1815-Present

6th: History Revealed Volume 1 (Ancient Civilizations & the Bible)

7th: History Revealed Volume 2 (Romans, Reformers, Revolutionaries)

8th: History Revealed Volume 3 (World Empires, World Missions, World Wars - scheduled to release in spring 2010)

9th: Tapestry of Grace Year 1 (From Creation to the Fall of Rome in 450 AD)

10th: Tapestry of Grace Year 2 (From Byzantium to the United States Constitution)

11th: Tapestry of Grace Year 3 (From Napoleon to Teddy Roosevelt)

12th: Tapestry of Grace Year 4 (From Teddy Roosevelt to September 11th)

 

Other than telling me to relax and not worry about planning right now, PLEASE don't hesitate to share your honest opinions. ;)

 

:001_smile: Melissa

[momofkhm]

K5: American history overview, basic geography

1st: CC Cycle 2, history overview w/CHOW, and geography w/A Child's Geography Volumes 1 & 2

2nd: Veritas Press Old Testament & Ancient Egypt / New Testament, Greece & Rome combined

3rd: Veritas Press Middle Ages, Rennaissance & Reformation

4th: Veritas Press Explorers-1815

5th: Veritas Press 1815-Present

6th: History Revealed Volume 1 (Ancient Civilizations & the Bible)

7th: History Revealed Volume 2 (Romans, Reformers, Revolutionaries)

8th: History Revealed Volume 3 (World Empires, World Missions, World Wars - scheduled to release in spring 2010)

9th: Tapestry of Grace Year 1 (From Creation to the Fall of Rome in 450 AD)

10th: Tapestry of Grace Year 2 (From Byzantium to the United States Constitution)

11th: Tapestry of Grace Year 3 (From Napoleon to Teddy Roosevelt)

12th: Tapestry of Grace Year 4 (From Teddy Roosevelt to September 11th)

 

 

Well, yes relax!

 

The first thing that pops into my head, is why don't you start TOG earlier? Why all the switching a round? I'm sure the others you have listed are wonderful resources but why switch? You can start TOG in first grade and go through it at all levels without a problem. Then you have your core program and you just have to get the books each year. You will get very comfortable with TOG instead of switching every time you start the cycle over.

[siloam]

I hope you all will bear with me here... I am a planner and as such I have roughly outlined a history plan for 1st through 12th grade. I realize that plans can change at any given time during our hs journey, but my hope in posting here is that I can get some constructive feedback... especially from anyone who planned or has traveled a similar path as outlined below.

 

K5: American history overview, basic geography

1st: CC Cycle 2, history overview w/CHOW, and geography w/A Child's Geography Volumes 1 & 2

2nd: Veritas Press Old Testament & Ancient Egypt / New Testament, Greece & Rome combined

3rd: Veritas Press Middle Ages, Rennaissance & Reformation

4th: Veritas Press Explorers-1815

5th: Veritas Press 1815-Present

6th: History Revealed Volume 1 (Ancient Civilizations & the Bible)

7th: History Revealed Volume 2 (Romans, Reformers, Revolutionaries)

8th: History Revealed Volume 3 (World Empires, World Missions, World Wars - scheduled to release in spring 2010)

9th: Tapestry of Grace Year 1 (From Creation to the Fall of Rome in 450 AD)

10th: Tapestry of Grace Year 2 (From Byzantium to the United States Constitution)

11th: Tapestry of Grace Year 3 (From Napoleon to Teddy Roosevelt)

12th: Tapestry of Grace Year 4 (From Teddy Roosevelt to September 11th)

 

Other than telling me to relax and not worry about planning right now, PLEASE don't hesitate to share your honest opinions. ;)

 

:001_smile: Melissa

 

A planner after my own heart. :D

 

It looks fine. Your hsing will never look like this, I find my old plans and giggle. But planing gives you vision and vision keeps you going.

 

Plan on and enjoy the journey!

 

My first plan:

 

Keep in mind this was before SL had Pre Pre-K 3/4 and 4/5. :D

 

2002 SL Core K (Pre-K 4/5)

2003 SL Core 1 (K)

2004 SL Core 2 (1st, Pre-K 4/5)

2005 SL Core 3 (2nd, K, Pre 4/5)

2006 SL Core 4 (3rd, 1st, K)

2007 SL Core 5/K (4th, 2nd, 1st, Pre 4/5)

2008 SL Core 6/1 (5th, 3rd, 2nd, K)

2009 SL Core 7/2 (6th, 4th, 3rd, 1st)

2010 SL Core 100/3 (7th, 5th, 4th, 2nd)

2011 SL Core 100/4 (8th, 6th, 5th, 3rd)

2012 SL Core 200/6 (9th, 7th, 6th, 4th)

2013 SL Core 300/7 (10th, 8th, 7th, 5th)

2014 SL Core 400/100 (11th, 9th, 8th, 6th)

2015 SL Core 530/5 (12th, 10th, 9th, 7th)

2016 SL Core 200/6 (11th, 10th, 8th)

2017 SL Core 300 /7 (12th, 11th, 9th) Add Civics for 12th grader

2018 SL Core 400/200 (12th, 10th)

2019 SL Core 300 (11th)

2020 SL Core 400 (12th)

 

Reality:

 

2002 SL Core K Too hard for her (duh) and had number 4 so took the year off.

2003 SL Core K (K)

2004 SL Core 1 (1st, Pre-K 4/5) with SL Pre-K 4/5

2005 SL Finish Core 1 start Core 2 (2nd, K, Pre 4/5)

2006 SL Finish Core 2 (3rd, 1st, K)

2007 Winter Promise American Story 1 (4th, 2nd, 1st, Pre 4/5)

2008 TOG year 2/3 (5th, 3rd, 2nd, K)

2009 TOG year 3/4 (6th, 4th, 3rd, 1st)

2010 TOG year 4/1 (7th, 5th, 4th, 2nd)

2011 Continue with TOG....

 

Needs will change as you go, and if needed your plans will change with it. I just had another major change in my science plans this year. But it is a change for the better, at least for my family. I couldn't see it coming, but now that it is here I have adjusted and everything is OK.

 

Blessings,

 

Heather

[Aloha2U]

Well, yes relax!

 

The first thing that pops into my head, is why don't you start TOG earlier? Why all the switching a round? I'm sure the others you have listed are wonderful resources but why switch?

 

Good question, but you may be opening a can of worms. (:laugh:)

 

The short of it after much researching, thought and prayer... and well, just knowing us... I like the idea of what each program offers/brings to our hsing journey at the time frames I've listed for them.

 

I don't need/want TOG for the grammar/logic stages (too much, imho). I really like VP's resources and history cycle, especially since we'll be doing Classical Conversations too.

 

I LOVE Diana Waring's materials and want to incorporate them in our journey for a fresh perspective... which I think will tie in quite nicely w/what we'll learn in the grammar stage and what we'll be doing during the logic stage w/History Revealed.

 

Also, after some researching... I don't think I want us to do Omnibus. TOG seems to fit the bill for what we'll need/want during the rhetoric stage when we get there.

 

All that said, I'm still open to suggestions. :D

 

A planner after my own heart. :D

 

It looks fine. Your hsing will never look like this, I find my old plans and giggle. But planing gives you vision and vision keeps you going.

 

Plan on and enjoy the journey!

 

You're right on, Heather! I know our needs may/will change and I'm sure I'll be giggling further down the road too (actually already have, in all honestly :tongue_smilie:), but as you stated... planning gives me vision and vision helps keep me going! ;)

 

:001_smile: Melissa

[KnitWit]

I advise beginning TOG at Dialectic level in 6/7 grade. Use 2 or 3 years to *learn the curriculum* and decide what you do/don't want to utilize for high school. It is REALLY hard to do TOG at Rhetoric level in one *cut and dried* year if you decide you like it and want to do all the credits available. My dd loved it and didn't want to cut anything. We took two nearly two years to do year one. Granted, it was *our choice* and many *don't* do that, but there is a LOT of good stuff there and you may want to add or delete or further discuss some things and *I* was happy to have the freedom to do that. If you lock yourself into *just four years*, you will miss that freedom.

[Aloha2U]

I advise beginning TOG at Dialectic level in 6/7 grade. Use 2 or 3 years to *learn the curriculum* and decide what you do/don't want to utilize for high school. It is REALLY hard to do TOG at Rhetoric level in one *cut and dried* year if you decide you like it and want to do all the credits available. My dd loved it and didn't want to cut anything. We took two nearly two years to do year one. Granted, it was *our choice* and many *don't* do that, but there is a LOT of good stuff there and you may want to add or delete or further discuss some things and *I* was happy to have the freedom to do that. If you lock yourself into *just four years*, you will miss that freedom.

 

Thank you for sharing this! It's definitely something I'll continue to think about.

 

Hmmm... has anyone started TOG with a 9th grader? I guess I'm hoping someone will say that it CAN be done... successfully(?). :thumbup:

 

:001_smile: Melissa

[KnitWit]

I should have mentioned that we started in 8th.

 

I wish I had started earlier. It's fabulous...there is just a LOT. :)

[CO MOM]

We started TOG in year 2 with an 11th grader and a 7th grader. It worked out fine, we really enjoyed it, but my 11th grader was a motivated student. Year 2 was a hard place to start, especially the lit - didn't probably do that justice in spots, but it worked out.

 

Our plans changed significantly also - had always done SL and planned to continue; had oldest do Core 100 in 9th (was OK, but not quite what we wanted for high school); checked out TOG, but thought it was too complicated and younger was still happy with SL; went with Omnibus 1 for 10th; missed doing history together with both kids, looked at TOG again, decided to go with it for 11th and 12th (did years 2 and 4) and was very pleased.

 

Anyway, it is possible to start with an older student, but the advice to start a little earlier is probably good - both for the mom and the student.

[cocoabean]

I agree with the first reply. If you are going to do TOG, begin it earlier in the game, during a less stressful time than in high school years. Tapestry has quite the learning curve to teach and implement it fully, particularly at the Rhetoric level (ask me how I know). Encountering difficulties of that nature could negatively affect your high school plans greatly. During those last 4 years, getting involved with a new program with such a learning curve could throw a wrench into your high school credits and graduation plan.

 

JMHO

Edited June 25, 2010 by cocoabean

[Guest ToGMom]

I agree with the first reply. If you are going to do TOG, begin it earlier in the game, during a less stressful time than in high school years. Tapestry has quite the learning curve to teach and implement it fully, particularly at the Rhetoric level (ask me how I know). Encountering difficulties of that nature could negatively affect your high school plans greatly. During those last 4 years, getting involved with a new program with such a learning curve could throw a wrench into your high school credits and graduation plan.

 

JMHO

 

:iagree: -- I'm glad we started when we did. (I had a D, UG, and LG at the time.)

 

This next cycle, I will have an R, D/R and UG. I'm glad I have the system figured out...

[Jackie in AR]

:iagree: -- I'm glad we started when we did. (I had a D, UG, and LG at the time.)

 

 

Same here. I was definitely glad this year (our first R year) that I had some experience under my belt.

 

It's not that starting in 9th grade can't be done; it will just be a more smooth transition to R if you've spent a little time with the curriculum.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

My dd#2, who just graduated, followed your 6th-12th grade plan. It worked beautifully. :)

 

With my younger dc, we are doing TOG, and adding in Diana Waring's CD's where appropriate. I really like to use DW's church history CD's in place of doing church history reading for my 4th-8th graders.

 

The one thing that works well with your rotation is that DW's cycle is 3 years, and TOG's is 4 years, so you end with year 4. If you start TOG earlier, you won't end on year 4, but that is really OK. Most of my kids won't either.

 

Like Heather said....I look at my old plans and giggle. ;)

BUT...I plan long range anyway so I can see where I MIGHT be going.

[Aloha2U]

Thank you, ladies! You've all given me very helpful feedback. :001_smile:

 

My dd#2, who just graduated, followed your 6th-12th grade plan. It worked beautifully. :)

 

With my younger dc, we are doing TOG, and adding in Diana Waring's CD's where appropriate. I really like to use DW's church history CD's in place of doing church history reading for my 4th-8th graders.

 

The one thing that works well with your rotation is that DW's cycle is 3 years, and TOG's is 4 years, so you end with year 4. If you start TOG earlier, you won't end on year 4, but that is really OK. Most of my kids won't either.

 

Like Heather said....I look at my old plans and giggle. ;)

BUT...I plan long range anyway so I can see where I MIGHT be going.

 

Leanna,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm very curious as to why you are doing things differently with your younger dc. What made you decide to only add in DW's CDs w/TOG, instead of actually doing all three years of History Revealed followed by 4 years of TOG?

 

:lurk5:

[ChemMommy]

He's a great reader and willing to do assigned work. He liked TOG a lot, but it was a BIG jump for him. However, high school level work is a jump for most students.

 

I think it is great that you are planning out where you want to be in 12th grade already. I did, too. And even though my plans changed, we've accomplished more because we did have goals.

 

I think, however, that you could save money by using TOG at the D and R levels. I currently have two UG, one D, and one R student. I can't see my younger ones being bored when they get to the R level; the material/books you use are so different and meatier at the upper level.

[Leanna Tomlinson]

Thank you, ladies! You've all given me very helpful feedback. :001_smile:

 

 

 

Leanna,

 

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm very curious as to why you are doing things differently with your younger dc. What made you decide to only add in DW's CDs w/TOG, instead of actually doing all three years of History Revealed followed by 4 years of TOG?

 

:lurk5:

 

The main reason I'm sticking with TOG for my younger dc is that I like keeping my whole family together. My younger dc are studying the same time period as my high school kids.

 

I love Diana Waring's materials, but feel that TOG gives me the support I need for the Rhetoric level. I still use and substitute many with of my DW resources. TOG and Diana Waring have the same goal in reaching all of the learning styles, but TOG gives the high school rigor and teacher support materials that I need to do an adequate job.

 

Also, I have now formed a TOG co-op, so I have several like-minded families studying the same things at the same time. We love having the accountability for the older kids, and the hands-on activities for the younger ones.

[Aloha2U]

The one thing that works well with your rotation is that DW's cycle is 3 years, and TOG's is 4 years, so you end with year 4.

 

This is true, but only if I really feel like having us tackle VP's OTAE & NTGR in one year. :001_unsure: I'm still undecided about it, so that may change our plans right there.

 

Any suggestions on how to do TOG in 7th/8th w/Diana Waring, but still do a complete 4 yr. rotation in highschool (starting w/Year 1 in 9th, Year 2 in 10th, etc.)? :D

[Leanna Tomlinson]

This is true, but only if I really feel like having us tackle VP's OTAE & NTGR in one year. :001_unsure: I'm still undecided about it, so that may change our plans right there.

 

Any suggestions on how to do TOG in 7th/8th w/Diana Waring, but still do a complete 4 yr. rotation in highschool (starting w/Year 1 in 9th, Year 2 in 10th, etc.)? :D

 

I would just start OTAE and see how he responds. If it is obvious that going at a faster pace is stressful, then just do one level per year. If you do that, you could finish Veritas Press in the 6th grade. Take 7th grade to do an intense year of geography, start TOG rhetoric in 8th, and leave 12th grade open for an online college class or community college.

 

If he responds well to doing OTAE at a faster pace, you still don't have to do 2 levels in one year. You can accomplish 6 levels in 5 years by just adding 6 weeks of study to each year.

 

Another thing to consider.....don't grow too attached to your plans. My 15yo ds fell in love with math and the computer in the 7th grade. He has accomplished 6 years of math in 4 years. Suddenly, history was not my focus with him. We are still doing TOG, but when he finishes year 4 at the end of Jr. year, we will put TOG aside so he can concentrate on college physics and calculus. He'll take a government class online from his intended college for dual credit. My dc haven't necessarily grown to follow my plans, but I've had to adjust to follow their gifts.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I would just start OTAE and see how he responds. If it is obvious that going at a faster pace is stressful, then just do one level per year. If you do that, you could finish Veritas Press in the 6th grade. Take 7th grade to do an intense year of geography, start TOG rhetoric in 8th, and leave 12th grade open for an online college class or community college.

 

If he responds well to doing OTAE at a faster pace, you still don't have to do 2 levels in one year. You can accomplish 6 levels in 5 years by just adding 6 weeks of study to each year.

 

Another thing to consider.....don't grow too attached to your plans. My 15yo ds fell in love with math and the computer in the 7th grade. He has accomplished 6 years of math in 4 years. Suddenly, history was not my focus with him. We are still doing TOG, but when he finishes year 4 at the end of Jr. year, we will put TOG aside so he can concentrate on college physics and calculus. He'll take a government class online from his intended college for dual credit. My dc haven't necessarily grown to follow my plans, but I've had to adjust to follow their gifts.

Well said. :iagree: I like to put out all those plans, too, but have been surprised that as I grow as a teacher, my plans change to fit their needs...and I thought I knew what was next :D

 

I'm still trying to figure out just where I want us to be, too. I'm pretty well set for everything save science. It's the last spot that I'm not satisfied with completely. I'm gettin' there though!

[Aloha2U]

I would just start OTAE and see how he responds. If it is obvious that going at a faster pace is stressful, then just do one level per year. If you do that, you could finish Veritas Press in the 6th grade. Take 7th grade to do an intense year of geography, start TOG rhetoric in 8th, and leave 12th grade open for an online college class or community college.

 

If he responds well to doing OTAE at a faster pace, you still don't have to do 2 levels in one year. You can accomplish 6 levels in 5 years by just adding 6 weeks of study to each year.

 

Thank you for these helpful tips!

 

I suppose it's my mindset of getting 3 full history rotations completed by the end of 12th grade that prevents me from wanting to even think about straying away from my rough plans (iykwim). :tongue_smilie:

 

Another thing to consider.....don't grow too attached to your plans. My 15yo ds fell in love with math and the computer in the 7th grade. He has accomplished 6 years of math in 4 years. Suddenly, history was not my focus with him. We are still doing TOG, but when he finishes year 4 at the end of Jr. year, we will put TOG aside so he can concentrate on college physics and calculus. He'll take a government class online from his intended college for dual credit. My dc haven't necessarily grown to follow my plans, but I've had to adjust to follow their gifts.

 

Though I know I'll have to be flexible to fit my ds's needs, I honestly hadn't thought about something like this. Thank you for sharing! :)

Edited July 1, 2010 by CMama