Outlining For a 6th and an 8th grader

[Free Indeed]

I just listened to SWB middle grades writing cd. I found it very helpful, but I am hoping some of you ladies can help me out just a bit. We are on year 3, and I am looking for a history book they can both outline from. I have the Usborne internet linked world history encyclopedia, but it seems very simple. Is it too simple? Should we be outlining from encyclopdia type text, or more narrative forms like History of US that we are also using this year for history. I was also thinking of just getting The Children's Encyclopedia of American history to outline from. What do you think? I have no experience with this at all, unless we did it in school and I just do not remember it.

[Maureen]

I've got 6th and 8th graders in the fall too. So I'm all ears!:bigear:

[JoyfulMama]

I am going to start outline with my 5th grader in the fall. She will be promoted, from the Usborne you mentioned, to Kingfisher.

[SilverMoon]

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Edited September 5, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Capt_Uhura]

There is another thread about outlining and history. Someone explained it this way and it made perfect sense to me. Usborne and Kingfisher are great for the stage of picking out a list of important events/facts/people ie one level outline. After that switch to something else for outlining. I will be using K12 Human Odyssey for outlining and Kingfisher for the list of facts.

[FlockOfSillies]

We used KF for a little while, but switched to K12 Human Odyssey.

[Susie in CA]

I decided to use whatever extra reading we find, and just pick a couple of pages to outline every week from those.

 

Susie

[Capt_Uhura]

I believe that is what SWB recommends for Logic Stage. You pick facts and dates from Usborne, have DC pick a topic of interest from that material, find a book in the library to learn more, and then outline that book.

[Rhondabee]

I just listened to SWB middle grades writing cd. I found it very helpful, but I am hoping some of you ladies can help me out just a bit. We are on year 3, and I am looking for a history book they can both outline from. I have the Usborne internet linked world history encyclopedia, but it seems very simple. Is it too simple? Should we be outlining from encyclopdia type text, or more narrative forms like History of US that we are also using this year for history. I was also thinking of just getting The Children's Encyclopedia of American history to outline from. What do you think? I have no experience with this at all, unless we did it in school and I just do not remember it.

 

This is just me, take it or leave it....my oldest outlined mostly from the white (OOP) Kingfisher, SOTW, or other sources. He's going into 10th. Not to get you to buy any one source ~ just to tell you who I am. (tho', yes, I would say the Usborne is too simple for outlining.)

 

Anyway ~ when you are outlining ala WTM, you are *not* JUST outlining. You are teaching expository (report) writing. So, my advice is try to find as many sources as you can that are *not* narrative. Now, some weeks I found that just wasn't possible, and we outlined narratives. But, ideally, you want to find sources that sound like the evening news. You want an authoritive voice. Because while he is outlining, your child is going to "catch" that voice and imitate it in his own writing. Hopefully, you'll be available to point out the various sentence structures and transitions that your child is learning in his English program and how they are used to hold the structure of the essay together, and he will see they have practical application and begin to imitate those structures as well.

 

But, back to the point - within the bank of sources that you choose to outline from - whether it's Kingfisher or SOTW or the Encyclopedia or library books or whatever - choose 3-5 paragraphs that focus only on one topic/event/person. Don't worry if the passage you are outlining doesn't cover everything that you have read about. Many, many things will get left out.

 

You *can* even use SOTW for logic-stage outlining if you look for those type of passages. It's harder to find the non-narrative passages, because it is meant to be a narrative history; and that's why I found having a history encyclopedia (& regular encyclopedias) here at the house so helpful. Non-fiction library books are also very helpful, if you have access & time to get them - but just pick and choose passages - don't read the whole thing!!!!

 

I would also think any high-school history textbook would have good passages for outlining. I have a couple here now that my oldest is in high school, and have considered using one for my younger ds next year. Again, I wouldn't do the whole textbook, but would pick and choose passages specifically for outlining. If I used the textbook, I would keep the Usborne or the red Kingfisher as the spine (and I would just read the spine, using it for the map and timeline and not worry about doing the "fact" sheet if I were doing an outline from a different source - there's just only so much time in a day, but to each his own).

 

Trust me, we are living proof that as long as you do a little bit every day, you can do WTM quite imperfectly and still get a very good result!!

 

 

ETA: Just noticed your kids are so close. If you have a white board, why not outline all together? The only drawback is that everyone needs to have a copy of the passage to be outlined. Do you have a copier? Anyway, read one paragraph out loud, then ask the questions in the new WTM; something like, "OK - what's the main idea of that paragraph?" and discuss. Decide together on how your topic sentence should be phrased and write it down beside a big Roman numeral. Leave room underneath to go in and fill in beside Capital A's and B's. (Sorry - we're fairly relaxed here, and the names of the levels of the outline escape me at the moment.) Anyway, fill in the Roman Numerals with both kiddos, and have the 6th grader copy it. At some point pretty soon, your 8th grader should be ready to start filling in those details. You'll probably need to help for a while, and then have him/her copy it. That's okay. Help until s/he asks you not to. And if you're still outlining in high school, don't sweat it. Really!

Edited May 18, 2010 by Rhondabee

[Free Indeed]

This is just me, take it or leave it....my oldest outlined mostly from the white (OOP) Kingfisher, SOTW, or other sources. He's going into 10th. Not to get you to buy any one source ~ just to tell you who I am. (tho', yes, I would say the Usborne is too simple for outlining.)

 

Anyway ~ when you are outlining ala WTM, you are *not* JUST outlining. You are teaching expository (report) writing. So, my advice is try to find as many sources as you can that are *not* narrative. Now, some weeks I found that just wasn't possible, and we outlined narratives. But, ideally, you want to find sources that sound like the evening news. You want an authoritive voice. Because while he is outlining, your child is going to "catch" that voice and imitate it in his own writing. Hopefully, you'll be available to point out the various sentence structures and transitions that your child is learning in his English program and how they are used to hold the structure of the essay together, and he will see they have practical application and begin to imitate those structures as well.

 

But, back to the point - within the bank of sources that you choose to outline from - whether it's Kingfisher or SOTW or the Encyclopedia or library books or whatever - choose 3-5 paragraphs that focus only on one topic/event/person. Don't worry if the passage you are outlining doesn't cover everything that you have read about. Many, many things will get left out.

 

You *can* even use SOTW for logic-stage outlining if you look for those type of passages. It's harder to find the non-narrative passages, because it is meant to be a narrative history; and that's why I found having a history encyclopedia (& regular encyclopedias) here at the house so helpful. Non-fiction library books are also very helpful, if you have access & time to get them - but just pick and choose passages - don't read the whole thing!!!!

 

I would also think any high-school history textbook would have good passages for outlining. I have a couple here now that my oldest is in high school, and have considered using one for my younger ds next year. Again, I wouldn't do the whole textbook, but would pick and choose passages specifically for outlining. If I used the textbook, I would keep the Usborne or the red Kingfisher as the spine (and I would just read the spine, using it for the map and timeline and not worry about doing the "fact" sheet if I were doing an outline from a different source - there's just only so much time in a day, but to each his own).

 

Trust me, we are living proof that as long as you do a little bit every day, you can do WTM quite imperfectly and still get a very good result!!

 

 

ETA: Just noticed your kids are so close. If you have a white board, why not outline all together? The only drawback is that everyone needs to have a copy of the passage to be outlined. Do you have a copier? Anyway, read one paragraph out loud, then ask the questions in the new WTM; something like, "OK - what's the main idea of that paragraph?" and discuss. Decide together on how your topic sentence should be phrased and write it down beside a big Roman numeral. Leave room underneath to go in and fill in beside Capital A's and B's. (Sorry - we're fairly relaxed here, and the names of the levels of the outline escape me at the moment.) Anyway, fill in the Roman Numerals with both kiddos, and have the 6th grader copy it. At some point pretty soon, your 8th grader should be ready to start filling in those details. You'll probably need to help for a while, and then have him/her copy it. That's okay. Help until s/he asks you not to. And if you're still outlining in high school, don't sweat it. Really!

 

:Insert big sigh of relief here: Thank you for taking the time to write all this.