Its the end of the school year and i have a problem!!

[sweetsouthern]

:001_huh:

 

my 9.5 yr old dd has no concept or retention at all of 4th grade language arts. she cant even properly distinguish capitilization! she can tell me the definition of a noun and verb, but cant distinguish a proper from a common. sigh. we have gone over this all year, it seems if shes constantly drilled, shes fine with it, but if we have a break in school for a few days in that subject, poof its gone.

 

she is VERY imature for her age, and has a few minor learning disabilities along with adhd. i know they say at a certain age a child tends to think differently, and trust me shes not there yet, were as i can see that difference in my 10 yr old this year.

 

i have no idea what to do. any ideas or suggestions PLEASE! i know down the line i will be using winston grammar with her, but shes very much not ready fo that yet.

[ondreeuh]

I feel your pain :) My son can be the same way (how many times must we review that there are 10 mm in a cm?). And we use CLE, which almost goes overboard on review!

 

I have realized for him two things:

 

1) He really needs to read the directions himself and "discover" the answer, because even if he follows along as I explain, it doesn't sink in unless he does it for himself.

 

2) He often needs things explained different ways, from different angles, with manipulatives. With the whole mm issue, I have had him chant "milli means one thousandth" over and over, and had him study a ruler, and then visualize it. Whatever it takes.

 

If you're not already using CLE, I highly, highly recommend it. Not only is there continual review, but the skills build on each other so the student is applying the knowledge constantly. Sometimes I pull out Singapore to show how the concept is explained or practiced in that method just to give a different perspective, but CLE is so strong and thorough.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Relax. Give her one more year to break through and remember. It should come by the end of 5th grade, if not...you do have a problem, but it seems that for some kids, it just clicks at the end of either 4th or 5th grade.

 

As a suggestion, it may also help if you have her identify grammar across content areas. In other words, not just during grammar, but maybe choose a sentence or two from a science or history narration or summary and let her identify parts of speech there. Sometimes, making the connection that grammar matters outside of grammar, really makes a difference.

[rawbanana]

I am going to be watching this thread! My 9 and 8.5 yr old arent really retaining their 'parts of speech' either. They KNOW what a noun and a pronoun are, but they dont always capitalize when they should and they dont remember what a verb, adverb, preposition etc are without reminders....*sigh*....

[PeterPan]

I'll just toss out a couple things.

-She's 9.5. Kids turn 9 in 3rd grade. Is her birthday right on that line where she could be called a 3rd grader? If so, then it wouldn't be so shocking that she's struggling with 4th grade grammar. Some people use an even earlier cut-off, say June. Just something to think about.

-You said she has some minor learning disabilities. Have you pursued them enough and found ALL of them? Do any of them impact how you teach grammar? I'm very keen on Shurley grammar. It turned around my grammar hating dd. It's not abstract the way most other grammar courses are. As you say, some kids can memorize a def and then apply that. Shurley is different. You memorize the def for informational purposes, but it is the Q&A flows that help you parse and label everything, no guessing, no figuring. It's just very straightforward. Might work for her.

-Sounds like her visual memory is not kicking in. You might focus on doing dictation every day with her and also some editing. I like the Editor in Chief workbook we're doing now enough that I'll probably have her do it again (next level) next year. A couple years ago we did a book from the Take 5 Minutes editing series. They were very good and had interesting themes. The Editor in Chief you could do 2-3 times a week, or the Take 5 Minutes you could do daily. Either way would be good. When we did the Take 5 Minutes, I would have her do it as copywork after she had corrected it, an added bonus. I got the ebook and printed the pages out, then cut them into slips. I wrote the number of errors on each slip, so she was good to go. Take the page with the editing marks and laminate it or put it in a page protector so she has that for a guide.

[deeinfl]

As other posters already posted, she's only 9. She has 9 more years to learn this stuff and you would be surprised that in highschool in many public schools, they start all the way from the beginning with grammar because most students still don't have a grasp on grammar.

 

I would take a complete month at a time next year to cement things. By this I mean, take one whole month and just work on nouns. You can work first on what is a noun, and how to identify it. Spend a week there, while also practicing capitalization of the first word of a sentence and proper punctuation. The next couple of weeks work on proper nouns. You will only do this once your child really has a grasp on nouns and has started to remember to capitalize the first word of a sentence and put the right punctuation at the end. If she doesn't capitalize a name, you can tell her that it is supposed to be capitalized, but that is okay that she didn't remember that because your next lesson that will also take a week or two is going to be on proper nouns and capitalizing them. You will always be reviewing the previous week's work. Spending 2 to 3 weeks and daily reviewing the last day's work will ensure that there is retention and praise, praise, praise even the smallest efforts.

 

Each couple of weeks, add a new part of speech, and a new punctuation rule, but always, always, reviewing as you go along. Then you will spend a few days, or a week on verbs, and so on and so on and so on. It is better that she really learn nouns, verbs, adjectives, and proper punctuation of a declarative, interrogative, exclammatory, and command sentence with complete understanding, than she be filling in lots of workbook pages but not have understanding.

 

Since you are going to do Winston later on, this will be enough preparation for her until you get there. You can also look at something very gentle like Queen's English books to keep skills fresh.

 

I hope this helps as I have had to do this with my children and it has worked well. Even though I am using Abeka 3rd grade grammar with my son, because we do dictation, we have been able to apply what we are learning in this way and the retention has been much better. For what it's worth, my son is 9 years and 4 months and is in the 3rd grade, not the fourth. He will be almost 10 when he starts the 4rth grade and that's just how I wanted it. ;)

 

HTH,

 

Dee

[sweetsouthern]

ok. phew. thanks everyone. that makes me feel tons better. and yes she is an early birthday, so she could be classified as 3rd grade elsewhere.

 

im looking into everything that was suggested, but does anyone have something they like for dictation? we do use copywork (queens) and corrective workbooks already, she just finished punctuation puzzlers and hated it. i will look at editor in chief now.

 

and no i havent ever had her tested for all her disabilities. we kind of just decided we knew there were some and we would work around them, but im not sure what they all are exactly. i do suspect auditory processing though... and we have had to go back and review phonics from the very begining.

[Pam B]

:001_huh:

 

my 9.5 yr old dd has no concept or retention at all of 4th grade language arts. she cant even properly distinguish capitilization! she can tell me the definition of a noun and verb, but cant distinguish a proper from a common. sigh. we have gone over this all year, it seems if shes constantly drilled, shes fine with it, but if we have a break in school for a few days in that subject, poof its gone.

 

QUOTE]

 

If she's not recognizing capital letters, that might bet he reason for not recognizing proper vs common nouns. I know that's how my boys do it, a lot of times, anyway.

 

I say relax and let her grow. Maybe she's a hands-on learner, or visual.. I've heard of people just constantly taking their kid for a walk and having them tell them the difference between the two.

"Look, there's a building. Building- common noun. What could we say to make this into a proper noun? YMCA" ... and so on.

[Teachin'Mine]

Play Madlibs! It works wonders. :001_smile:

 

My daughter, who is an awesome writer, struggled with basic grammar concepts for a few years. Madlibs helped a lot during that time, and when she was older, it all came together and was no problem. Easy Grammar worked well for her, but like most grammar books, it goes from one topic to the next without review of what had been learned. If they could combine it with review, it would be awesome. I do remember that we skipped around in the book based on their suggestions about what order to do things. I marked up the book with go to and then the page number to go to next, so she could follow the recommended order.

 

Give her time, they all learn different concepts at different times. :001_smile:

[Pam B]

Another note: DS10- almost 11- told me the other day he was "Just getting use to our grammar program"........ We've been doing it since September, and for a year before that!

 

Perk up! Soon the "light" will come on! ;)

[deeinfl]

Yes, yes, yes! I recommend Spelling Plus Dictation! I truly think that these short dictation lessons have been the sole reason for my son's better spelling, better punctuation, and better understanding of all we have done--grammar wise.

 

The lessons are very short, just 4 sentences a day and they are not difficult sentences with words that she would never encounter or use in her daily writing, they are all words that she will be familiar with in her daily writing and you can look at the levels and sort of gauge where she needs to start the dictations. I would start with level one and work my way up. It includes a complete list of the words used per level, so you could also double it up as spelling if you would like, but you wouldn't have to. I can't recommend it highly enough! We love Spelling Plus Dictation!

 

You can get it at Rainbow Resource, or you can get it at the author's website, though I can't remember what it is now. You can google Spelling Plus and it will come up!

 

Many Blessings!!!

 

Dee:)

[PollyOR]

Maggie, I can remember being kept in at recess during 4th grade because I didn't do my grammar work during class. I was completely befuddled. I was an adult before much of it started to click. Seriously.

 

I have an almost 12yr old that is just starting to understand grammar. When I start to get discouraged with her, I have to remind myself that it took me a long time also.

[Teachin'Mine]

oops - duplicate

[binxsmom]

these are skills that build, year after year. as a former ninth grade english teacher, i recall covering parts of speech in the required grammar book. i wouldn't worry. :001_smile: