Algebra and Logic. Can/should they be started simultaneously?

[Robin in Tx]

Or would it be better to spend some time with one before introducing the other?

 

I'm trying to decide on possibly slowing dd down in math a bit and introducing Logic first. Probably Cothran's course. I'm thinking this will make the math all the easier.

 

Or maybe I should put the emphasis on math and spend sometime in Algebra before introducing Cothran?

 

To me, it seems that introducing both at the same time might be a little overwhelming.

 

Dd is 13, will have completed Saxon 87, and first year latin (LITCT). My plans are to use Saxon for Algebra. The other possibility would be to introduce Cothran and do a "rigorous" prealgebra course... one that takes her more in depth on topics she already understands instead of introducing a lot of new material. Does such a course exist (for some reason I'm not thinking Saxon 1/2 would fit this description... any comments on that)? The BJU PreAlgebra would be available to me, but I'm not sure about it, either.

 

Another consideration (to me) is we'll be getting more in depth with music theory next year. Advanced theory, formal logic, algebra, and 2nd year Latin just seems like a LOT to bite off at one time. To me it does. Does it sound reasonable to you?

 

Thanks for any input!

Robin

[Beth in Central TX]

Where to place logic and algebra has been my struggle as I plan for junior high and high school for my oldest; he will be in 7th grade next year. I think the guideline is that if your child is ready for Algebra, then s/he is ready for logic too, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be at the same time. I just use this guideline to make sure I don't start logic too early.

 

It looks like we are on the same page. I plan to use the TL series also, and I'm also slowing my son down in math. Academically, he is ready for Algebra, but he's still dealing with some maturity issues that I would like to work a little more before we start his higher level math sequence.

 

Next year I have planned Pre-algebra, CW Homer B, Omnibus I, Wheelock's Latin, & NT Greek for Beginners for 7th grade. I can't see putting a logic course on top of this. 8th grade is similar: Algebra I, CW Diogenes, Omnibus II, Wheelock's Latin, & NT Greek for Beginners. So, I've decided to move TL I & II to 9th grade and do each course in one semester. Then I can follow up with Material Logic in 10th grade and have 2 years of logic on their high school transcript.

 

I've gone back and forth between starting logic in 8th or 9th grade, but I'm leaning more toward 9th grade because in high school I plan to drop grammar and spelling as separate subjects. At this point, I think my boys will be well grounded in both courses based on the work they've done in R&S. We will also be out of (or at least close to the end of) our grammar intensive portions of Latin & Greek.

 

This rambling represents the thoughts I've had lately on the subject of logic and how it fits into our homeschool. I plan to do more work in logic this year, and once I work through some of the programs I have, I think I'll have a better understanding of where it should fall in our studies. Obviously, logic will not be a part of our 7th grade year since I didn't start my logic work as early as I had planned...

[Beth in SW WA]

My soon-to-be 8th grade ds will do CD Alg 1 next year along w/ Nance's Intro To Logic.

[Lori D.]

Does it *have* to be finished in one year? When you put it on a transcript, you'd just write it as a completed course; you don't have to put down when it was done.

 

Something else to consider, along those transcript lines:

How many credits are you allowed to count from 8th grade onto high school transcript? From what I've been reading, some states don't allow *any* credits from 8th grade -- though, for math, if the student's transcript shows Geometry in 9th grade, it's just assumed the student took Algebra 1 in 8th grade.

 

In general, from what I've been reading about transcripts, only 1 credit -- *maybe* 2 credits -- are allowed to be used toward high school credit. If that is the case, then you may want to hold off on the Logic until 9th grade, so you will also be able to count your student's other impressive credits -- Algebra, Latin, Music Theory.

 

Just something to ponder! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Beth in SW WA]

Does it *have* to be finished in one year? When you put it on a transcript, you'd just write it as a completed course; you don't have to put down when it was done.

 

Lori, Interesting idea. I'll research this. The problem I'm finding is that Logic may not be a highly-valued course for some colleges. It would be an elective -- but I wonder how much of the wow-factor it will have...

[Lori D.]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=127224#poststop

 

In her response, Nan suggests using a notebook with tabs to keep track of hours/activities/etc. That would allow you to specifically gear your student's credits towards specific colleges/universities.

 

I didn't have a chance to read through all the responses to your recent thread on what 8th grade work can be counted for high school credit, so Nan may have suggested that to you in that thread.

 

And I don't think you're a "thread killer". LOL! We'll be passing through your state in a few weeks. I'll wave out the window to all you lovely WA state homeschoolers as we go! : ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Beth in SW WA]

Yes, Nan is a gem! I love her ideas. Thanks, Lori. :)

[Ali in OR]

I would be more likely to keep moving in math and wait on logic. I'm coming at this as a former high school math teacher. I have not taught (or even learned) formal logic, but we did teach symbolic logic as part of our 9th grade honors geometry course. I think logic is easier when the kids are a little older (rhetoric stage?). I have no hard evidence to back this up, but this is my impression.

 

Does your dd have difficulty in math or gaps in her knowledge? If that's the case, review could be helpful. If she will be in 8th grade next year, I would go ahead with algebra. That gives her the option of getting to advanced math courses and/or an AP test in high school. If she will still be in 7th, you still have some time (though I guess it's the trend these days to push algebra to younger years--6th & 7th grades, but you can probably do more with the topic in 8th grade and that still leaves plenty of time to cover harder math in high school).

[Kathie in VA]

I don't know which will help the other more: Algebra helping Logic or Logic helping Algebra. I'd look at what the pre-reqs are for the logic program you are considering (I keep getting them confused...TL and IL.) If algebra is needed for the logic they would tell you. If not then I wouldn't worry about it. Now doing them both might be a problem... then again some find algebra easy so it all depends.

 

I didn't realize it but my kids will only be up to pre-algebra next year and yet I was hoping to start formal logic. hmm. You got me wondering about this.