Chloe Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 My dd10 used FLL in 1st and 2nd (didn't finish the 2nd grade part. We got bored with it.). Last year she did all of GWG 3, and this year she is doing Easy Grammar 4, but we're only doing it 2 days a week so she won't finish it. Do you think she would be able to handle R & S 5 next year as a 5th grader? FWIW, we loved GWG, but some concepts didn't seem to be sticking. We switched to a light EG schedule this year because I wanted to focus on other things and didn't feel a formal grammar program was really necessary yet. However, I think next year is a good time to really dig in. I'm undecided with whether we should do a few years with R & S, or go the Winston Grammar or Analytical Grammar route. My dd seems to have a pretty good handle on grammar mechanics and writes fairly well, so maybe something as intense as R & S isn't really necessary. My ds, however, coming up right behind her still forgets to use capitals and ending punctuation in his sentences. It would be nice to use the same curriculum with him, but Winston Grammar seems like it would be ideal for him. Does it include mechanics? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 My opinion would be to start her in R&S 4. My dd11 (6th) was new to R&S grammar this year and we started her a grade level behind (level 5). She sailed through the first half but we are hitting a wall with the more difficult diagramming concepts now. I'm glad we stayed w/ 5 instead of moving to 6 prematurely. Again, I don't know anything about the other programs, so I can't say which would be a better fit. R&S is thorough. I've also heard good things about AG, but have no personal experience. Hope you get more suggestions! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 using the worksheets whenever available (not all lessons) to ease the amt. of writing. R&S English doesn't have to be intense, but it is thorough. R&S English 5 & 6 alone would give you a proper English foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraQ Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I'd recommend English 4 since it gives more detailed instructions in diagramming and reviews it more than 5 does. If 4 seems too easy after you start, simply give the chapter review *first* and then only do the lessons that cover topics she didn't get right in the chapter reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susie in tx Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I'm going to be using Writing Tales 2 and FLL4 with my 5th grader next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Ok, it looks like I should start with R & S 4 then. What's the highest level of R & S English you would go if you want your dc to have a good, but not over-the-top, grasp of English grammar. I'm talking a decent high school level. Here's what I'm thinking.......my dd could work through R & S levels 4-6 in her 5th through 8th grade years (at a pace of 3-4 lessons a week), then just do some kind of review work in the high school years, maybe using AG's high school reinforcement books. Would this be enough? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Winston is grammar instruction and parsing/diagramming (not with the traditional lines/charts, but with cards). No grammar mechanics (punctuation/capitalization/etc). Winston worked well with our 2 boys; we used a variety of things to practice editing and grammar mechanics. Here's a run-down on Winston: - Winston Basic (gr. 4-6) = 8 parts of speech; 7 noun functions - Winston Word Works (gr. 5-7) = word usage (who vs. whom; etc.); types of pronouns (demonstrative, relative, etc), and more - Winston Advanced (gr. 7-8) = clauses and phrases, modifiers (gerunds, participles, etc.), sentence types (simple, complex, etc.), and more Gotta run right now, but I'll be back later to fill you in on how Winston is used, and resources for practicing grammar mechanics. Warmly, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chloe Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Lori, Would Winston Grammar be less teacher-intensive than R & S? About how long would a lesson take and how many days a week would it have to be done? I remember you saying you didn't care for the Word Works level. Is this the only level that covers word usage (lay/lie, good/well, etc)? My dd needs work in this area. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Here's how we have used Winston grammar. Bear in mind, while the program has you use the cards to make it hands-on, we used a whiteboard and did a very modified style of diagramming. Now we can do most of it orally, which is even faster. Anyways here's what we did and how much time it took me as the teacher: We do Winston Grammar 3x/week, for 5-15 min/session. It takes us 10-15 minutes if we are going over a new concept in the teacher book, or needing to review, and then practicing on 4 sentences. It only takes us 5-10 minutes to do 4 sentences if we don't need to review. 1. (If needed) Go over the concept from the teacher manual. 2. (For the first years) I'd write 4 sentences on the whiteboard. 3. The child would then mark the sentence (now they do it mostly orally). Generally, we'd go over 1 lesson a week -- but, often backing up and reviewing after a long break from school, and not doing it for the first 3 and last 3 weeks of school. In this way, we would get 2/3rds through a level of Winston in the first year, and then review it from the beginning and finish it in the second year. Going so slowly and gently allowed us to have plenty of time to learn other grammar concepts and to allow us to supplement or easily have time for more "workbook-y" grammar for practicing grammar mechanics. Grammar Mechanics resources (to practice punctuation/capitalization/etc) - Take Five Minutes: A History Fact a Day - Editor in Chief workbooks - Write Source workbooks Plus, 1-2 times a week I would make up a Sonlight-type of dictation worksheet for grammar practice. I would write out a short paragraph from their reading that week, with no punctuation or capitalization, and with some spelling errors -- often used the wrong homophone (like "meet" for "meat" or the wrong vowel pattern (like "bote" for "boat"). I also would ask grammar questions related to whatever we were going over in the Winston. So if we were learning a particular part of speech, I'd have them search for those words, or mark them, or have them come up with a substitute adjective, for example. re: Winston Wordworks While we did use all three levels -- and we've really liked Winston Basic and Advanced -- we just didn't connect as well with Wordworks. I really can't put my finger on exactly why... It *is* laid out a little differently... But it may also be because it was focused on correct usage of various words, while the Advanced builds on and really seems like the next step on the Basic. Supplementing Wordworks with "Comic Strip Grammar", published by Scholastic, did help, though. I really haven't seen anything I would have liked *better* than the Winston Wordworks, so it is worth persevering through. : ) And in the end, ALL levels of Winston have been FAR better for us, as we are just not a "workbook-y" kind of family. We tried Analytical Grammar for a final wrap-up of grammar this year for my 9th grader -- blech! While I really liked the paragraphs and how they built around a theme, and all the great grammar concepts that AG covers, in the end it was still... a workbook! Long, with lots of writing. Haven't seen R&S grammar, but I gather that AG and R&S are similar. Enough grammar ramblings. (lol!) Hope something here helps! Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelroper Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 look here for discussion on the forum go here to compare the two levels also do a search for more info- the fifth grade level is more mature than earlier levels & has more written work (some do most orally), it depends on how much dd knows about diagramming already, check the table of contents for each & look at the samples, R&S also will send a free sample pack. I am not familiar with GWG so I have no idea how they differ. IME R&S is very good about explaining a concept & providing plenty of practice. The TM is very easy to use. Good luck!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 For capitalization and punctuation, R&S makes a special workbook that address just those things. It really helped my dd (grade 4 at the time) cement those concepts. She's never had a problem with either concept since taking time out to do that workbook. Just an idea. Many people don't know that R&S has the special Punctuation and Capitalization workbooks. There are two of them: one for grades 3-5 and one for grades 6-8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 R&S 5 vote here. Not only has my dd learned a lot, so have I! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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