Considering Shurley English but want to know how much time it takes

[Mosaicmind]

We have used FLL 1/2 and 3 with our two younger ds. DS/10 will be through with FLL3 very soon, and although it has been good he complains how boring it is. I will use FLL3 with ds/8 next year when we bring him home. For ds/10 and ds/12 I am considering using Shurley English with them. I like the reviews, it seems very solid, and for my ds/10 he would probably retain it more since they have the jingles to go along with it.

 

I am just not sure about how much time it is going to take to get it done. I have heard that it is very teacher directed. Is this true? I would probably use the grade level below what they are in to begin with, which would mean using Shurley English 4 and 6 for them.

 

What are your thoughts on this program?

[mrsrevmeg]

Extremely teacher directed. There is no sentence diagramming. Not a problem for me, but we are not required to take standardized tests. I also have my oldest two doing a grade below their actual level. (my youngest has never done anything but Shurley so he is on his grade level) Not trying to dissuade you from Shurley. It is very solid. The boys KNOW their grammar. We spend anywhere from 10-40 minutes on English in any given day, depending on how much new material is being introduced that day.

HTH

[PeterPan]

Well I've done Shurley 2, 4,6 and have 7 in the wings for next year. We use the practice booklets that have the sentences already typed out, and it takes us about 10 min. a day. Once they get the swing of it, they can even do the parsing themselves. My dd usually knows the vocab, so I mention it and move on. We skip the jingles because we did that memory work in FLL1/2. We sometimes do the conventions stuff (plurals, s/v agreement, that type thing) orally. I like the exercises writing sentences from given patterns. So really, we skip a lot and trim it just to the parsing. Doing that it's quite efficient, not bad at all. We don't do their writing.

 

I'd get the Shurley 6 and see what you think. I think you could put the two of them together, then do Shurley 7 with both of them the following year.

[shanvan]

Well I've done Shurley 2, 4,6 and have 7 in the wings for next year. We use the practice booklets that have the sentences already typed out, and it takes us about 10 min. a day. Once they get the swing of it, they can even do the parsing themselves. My dd usually knows the vocab, so I mention it and move on. We skip the jingles because we did that memory work in FLL1/2. We sometimes do the conventions stuff (plurals, s/v agreement, that type thing) orally. I like the exercises writing sentences from given patterns. So really, we skip a lot and trim it just to the parsing. Doing that it's quite efficient, not bad at all. We don't do their writing.

 

I'd get the Shurley 6 and see what you think. I think you could put the two of them together, then do Shurley 7 with both of them the following year.

 

:iagree: Putting them together would be best, if you can do it.

 

I have to do my dd separately and sometimes it drives me nuts scheduling time for all the separate subjects- but my dc are too far apart in ability levels for combining.

 

I am requiring my dc to do just about everything in Shurley. Some things I do cut from the lesson, but we do the jingles (because they haven't done a lot of memory work for grammar) and I am requiring them to keep the vocab notebook. I just list the vocab assignments as part of their daily independent work. We are using the writing too. I'd say Shurley takes more time for my youngest who is doing Shurley 2. My DS in 6 can move much faster. His lessons usually last anywhere from 10-20 minutes. I read the scripts at the beginning of the week, but I don't follow them word for word during the lesson, that's where I'm able to cut the lesson time down.

 

And definitely DO get the practice books. They also help cut down the lesson time because it saves you from writing the practice sentences on paper or a white board.

 

As far as it being teacher intensive, I'd say it can be very teacher intensive, or not depending on how you use it. I don't mind having to teach the lessons because I am seeing a lot of progress with Shurley. I find the more involved I am with a lesson, the more learning takes place. There is something to be said for a real live person doing the teaching.

 

Shannon

[PeterPan]

BTW, 7 is set up a bit differently, and I like all the components, thought I'd do it more completely this time, rather than skipping stuff. And just to distinguish, there's a practice workbook that has the conventions and stuff and a practice BOOKLET that has the sentences typed out. The workbook comes with a Shurley kit, but the booklet (around $6) is something you buy separately. Slightly annoying that they did it that way, but whatever.

 

Shannon, just to dredge up an old subject, I have my BJU lit 7 out and am starting dd on it now. It suddenly seems right, so we'll just see what happens. Did you ever take the plunge? I'm sort of flabbergasted that they expect it to be a semester course, considering how thick it is.

[shanvan]

 

Shannon, just to dredge up an old subject, I have my BJU lit 7 out and am starting dd on it now. It suddenly seems right, so we'll just see what happens. Did you ever take the plunge? I'm sort of flabbergasted that they expect it to be a semester course, considering how thick it is.

 

Hi, Elizabeth! I was going to e mail, but haven't gotten around to it. We did not do BJU 7 Lit because I signed DS up for an outside class. I thought it would be good for literature discussion. It hasn't worked out at all for that and has tremendously increased his work load (which means I have to set aside my own teaching plans...which doesn't make me happy!). No more outside classes for at least a few years!

 

I may look over the BJU for next year, but we are still using TOG, so it will depend on how much of the TOG lit I decide to use. I really have to sit down and plan out TOG 2. I'm still figuring out next year. I agree that it would be a nightmare to fit it into a semester. It could be done, but I would think it would be at the expense of wome good discussion you would have to forgo all for the sake of finishing within the semester time frame. The longer I homeschool the less I like pushing ahead over digging deeper. All I can think of is that if used in a Christian school the teacher would pick and choose which stories to use, maybe?? But then that can't be how it's used with the DVD curriculum, can it??

 

 

Now....back to the regularly scheduled thread! My apologies for hijacking!

 

Shannon

[Mosaicmind]

Well I've done Shurley 2, 4,6 and have 7 in the wings for next year. We use the practice booklets that have the sentences already typed out, and it takes us about 10 min. a day. Once they get the swing of it, they can even do the parsing themselves. My dd usually knows the vocab, so I mention it and move on. We skip the jingles because we did that memory work in FLL1/2. We sometimes do the conventions stuff (plurals, s/v agreement, that type thing) orally. I like the exercises writing sentences from given patterns. So really, we skip a lot and trim it just to the parsing. Doing that it's quite efficient, not bad at all. We don't do their writing.

 

I'd get the Shurley 6 and see what you think. I think you could put the two of them together, then do Shurley 7 with both of them the following year.

 

I don't see how I could put a 5th and 7th grader in one book? My 5th grader will be just finishing up FLL4 and I am not sure that skipping to Shurley 6 would be a good idea. I could see easily putting my 7th grader in the Shurley 6 and he would be fine, but I don't want to exasperate my 5th grader.

[PeterPan]

Mosaic, look at the scope & sequence for Shurley, and you'll see. If the dc has done FLL4, he's going to be FINE in Shurley 6, honest. You would find Shurley 4 redundant after FLL4, and it doesn't make sense to do 5 and 6, as they're so similar. At the very least you could buy 6 and see what you think. It really might be more practical to combine them than you anticipate.

 

Oh, did I mention we diagram with Shurley? It's just 3 sentences per lesson in the practice book. We usually diagram the middle one on a whiteboard. It's not hard, adds just a couple minutes, but is worth the effort.

[PeterPan]

Wow Shan, that must have been some kinda outside class! I understand about your year turning out differently from what you anticipated. Might be better in a way, how it was meant to be. As for me, I'm totally excited about the AAH we just started. I had pondered TOG for two years, kept going ecclectically, kept losing my mind, and now I have one really challenging spine that pulls it all together for us. Dd is happy, I'm happy. Maybe you can find him a really challenging core book that would pull the whole thing together for you (a textbook essentially) and take some of the strain off? Karenciavo, who does TOG, has talked about a civ textbook she uses. I got it and have it downstairs, can't remember the author. It's a standard college text and has workbooks, the whole nine yards. That's my future, definitely!

[shanvan]

As for me, I'm totally excited about the AAH we just started.

 

Having a brain cramp...what is AAH?

I had pondered TOG for two years, kept going ecclectically, kept losing my mind, and now I have one really challenging spine that pulls it all together for us. Dd is happy, I'm happy. Maybe you can find him a really challenging core book that would pull the whole thing together for you (a textbook essentially) and take some of the strain off?

 

For next year I already have TOG2 and it will work well for me to have both kids on the same history, so we are going ahead with it. DS actually likes it a lot and I have come to appreciate it more than I expected. I choose one of their alternate resources for a spine. After next year I will reassess.

 

Karenciavo, who does TOG, has talked about a civ textbook she uses. I got it and have it downstairs, can't remember the author. It's a standard college text and has workbooks, the whole nine yards. That's my future, definitely!

 

This may be in our future! I'm not married to TOG (yet:laugh:). We'll see how it goes next year.

 

 

Shannon

[PeterPan]

AAH=All American History. It's one of those history spines that people don't seem to like, say is too dry, blah blah. It just has a lot of content and turns out to be working great for us. I wasn't trying to talk you out of TOG, lol. I meant Karenciavo uses that spine WITH her TOG. It was just sort of the idea of chosing a really out there spine, something much more meaty than you would have initially thought, so that you have to do less legwork. That's awesome that TOG is working out well for you and your ds. I'm REALLY glad to hear it, as I remember it was a bit uncertain for you when you started.

[shanvan]

AAH=All American History. It's one of those history spines that people don't seem to like, say is too dry, blah blah.

 

"Blah, blah"..that just cracks me up.

 

It just has a lot of content and turns out to be working great for us. I wasn't trying to talk you out of TOG, lol. I meant Karenciavo uses that spine WITH her TOG. It was just sort of the idea of chosing a really out there spine, something much more meaty than you would have initially thought, so that you have to do less legwork.

 

Yes, that is the big appeal, less legwork!

 

I knew what you meant. :) With or w/o TOG I may use what she is using. But, at this point I'm just taking it year by year. I suppose that's why I wrote what I did about TOG. I've had some surprising switches with curriculum this year. You know I thought I had it all figured out. (When will I learn??) It's working for us now, but there is no guarantee it will continue to be the best choice. We'll see... I thought we would always use R&S English and surprise, surprise it just would not work for us this year. It should work. It's what I wanted to work. Maybe I've finally learned that what is working doesn't always continue to work every year?? Nah, I'm sure I'll need to learn that over again sometime soon!

 

That's awesome that TOG is working out well for you and your ds. I'm REALLY glad to hear it, as I remember it was a bit uncertain for you when you started.

 

That is quite an understatement, but I finally have it working for us. Now, if it will just stay that way!

 

We should really just e mail as we have successfully hijacked this thread repeatedly!

 

Shannon

[Pongo]

Mosaic, look at the scope & sequence for Shurley, and you'll see. If the dc has done FLL4, he's going to be FINE in Shurley 6, honest. You would find Shurley 4 redundant after FLL4, and it doesn't make sense to do 5 and 6, as they're so similar. At the very least you could buy 6 and see what you think. It really might be more practical to combine them than you anticipate.

 

Oh, did I mention we diagram with Shurley? It's just 3 sentences per lesson in the practice book. We usually diagram the middle one on a whiteboard. It's not hard, adds just a couple minutes, but is worth the effort.

 

Hello, :iagree:

I have used SE 1-6 with my oldest (I did not skip) and my second dc did 1,2,4,6 and my third has done 1 & 2 and will most likely go through the entire sequence. You can definitely put them together, there is a TON of review (the beauty of SE)

 

OhE, how I wished I did some traditional diagramming. I bought the CLE diagramming books:), and my kids will do the last few LU's through the summer because, they're portable, cheap (poolside & beaches), quick and grade level diagramming. I didn't like SE 7 (the set-up) are you going to use it to it's entirety? It's not as easy to pull the grammar out as we currently do, what do you think? I was going to look into AG but I don't know what to do with my ds, I could keep him in CLE till 600 then go into AG. What are you planning after SE 7?

[PeterPan]

Fay, you got me so curious, I pulled out my Shurley 7! I don't see anything in this that is skippable. Even the writing is a little more interesting, as it is trying to apply the grammar. So for instance you'll talk about 1st and 3rd person in the sentences then write a paragraph using 3rd person. You'll talk about a certain verb tense then write a paragraph using it. That seems much more interesting than the earlier formulaic stuff, though it may need some work to make the assignments pop a bit. ("What I did on my winter vacation" might not cut it, lol.) I like the editing assignments, the exercises on s/v agreement, verb tenses, types of pronouns, ALL of it! It finally has some meat and gets you to the GOOD stuff, yum. Grammar is good and fun (after all, it's talking!), so it's exciting finally to get to something interesting.

 

Now as far as how to use it, I think you're again stuck wrangling with the multi-book set-up Shurley uses. I got the Skill and Application Test Pages book and the Practice Book. I think there's also a student book. Now the student book would have ALL the texty kind of junk (jingle boxes, that type of thing) and the skill/test pages. The practice book is just the sentences. As I looked through the tm, it seems to me some of the lessons may need to be broken up if we want to keep them short. Or I need to plan on axing something else from the schedule to make room for longer Shurley times. I like the editing, so that will cut Editor in Chief from our schedule. I like their conventions and stuff, so that will replace the Grammar Works book we've been doing. So I guess the time will actually pan out about equal. We'll just be doing one curriculum instead of 3. I'll still keep a separate writing program going most likely, though really you wouldn't HAVE to. I mean it IS a complete LA. If we were writing in other subjects, would we really HAVE to do another writing program on top of the writing in Shurley? I'll have to think about that. My dd is going through so much pre-teen stuff, I'm trying to ponder how to be reasonable. Not light, but reasonable.

 

Oh, as far as using it, I think you just work straight through the tm. If you correlate those extra workbooks and the tm, what you see is that the few things NOT included in the test book but included in the tm would work very well orally. So that's my plan. Work through the lessons in order, bookmarking where we stop each day and not being afraid to chop lessons in half as needed. Do stuff orally that is not in the test book. Use the test book pages and the practice book (sentence parsing). Oh, I think I'd diagram two sentences a day from the Shurley 7, since it's 5 sentences to parse. I confess when we did Shurley 6, we did 3 lessons a day and diagrammed 1 from each set. I'd definitely do 2 a day if you're parsing 5. We're also doing the MCT vocab right now and parsing and diagramming the corresponding sentence from the practice book. It's fun to get it out of the box and see something not as formulaic and patterned as the Shurley sentences tend to be. I have no problem with the Shurley sentences, no beef, because they really LEARN those skills with the patterns. But it's good to get it out of the box and apply to other situations too. I didn't know CLE had diagramming books. That would be good. CW Homer has diagramming. We diagram MCT. Basically anywhere you're working you can find something to diagram. :)

[PeterPan]

As far as what to follow Shurley, well I'm tentatively thinking AG. I don't know if we'll need the actual lessons or just go straight to their practice/maintenance books. I intend to look at it more carefully at the convention. All I know is Heather in VA, an ardent adherent, was showing me some of the types of sentences they use in the practice books, and they're spot on, very delish and interesting. Of course for all I know I may end up getting some boring R&S 8 book and calling it good, lol. In my mind I have dd on track to do more of the MCT materials this fall (WWW, ML), and if that's the case those will have grammar too. We'll start Shurley 7 this summer, so we may be finished by fall and have it segue into that MCT stuff as a holding pattern. AG is actually meant for junior high or high school, isn't it? I don't know. You always are trying to balance degree of difficulty with age-appropriateness. And my dd is one of those who really needs a bit of humor injected. No humor and it totally flops. That's what I finally realized after looking back at all the things that have worked for us. And I guess people can say certain subjects ought to be like broccoli and just DONE, but I don't. She just happens to have a very fun personality that appreciates the touches of humor and whimsy in intelligent curriculum. :)

[Pongo]

Fay, you got me so curious, I pulled out my Shurley 7! I don't see anything in this that is skippable.

Exactly, I think I got soooo used to using only the grammar component, that when I got Shurley 7 I didn't even think to use the whole thing:)

 

Even the writing is a little more interesting, as it is trying to apply the grammar. So for instance you'll talk about 1st and 3rd person in the sentences then write a paragraph using 3rd person. You'll talk about a certain verb tense then write a paragraph using it. That seems much more interesting than the earlier formulaic stuff, though it may need some work to make the assignments pop a bit. Your killing me, now that I am looking over the writing, yes, it's meatier. Much of this foundational stuff is not found in IEW, which is what I currently use.

 

 

Now as far as how to use it, I think you're again stuck wrangling with the multi-book set-up Shurley uses. I got the Skill and Application Test Pages book and the Practice Book. I have the student textbook also, it does make it a bit easier, as far as the reference pages and stuff.

 

 

The practice book is just the sentences.

I have always used Finders Keepers, they have extra sentences, and if you look at the tabs on the top, they have the writing templates also.

 

 

As I looked through the tm, it seems to me some of the lessons may need to be broken up if we want to keep them short. Or I need to plan on axing something else from the schedule to make room for longer Shurley times.

Basically, I would drop everything except IEW, and even then I am not sure how much IEW we would do, the writing is going to take some time. Especially, if I use writing across the curriculum, with SE as the instruction, and I pull in topics......so much to ponder.

 

 

Not light, but reasonable.

I hear you, my dd seems to be forgetting stuff in math she knew down solid. I'm extending mercy(I keep singing,like a broken record in my mind).......:glare:

 

Oh, as far as using it, I think you just work straight through the tm. If you correlate those extra workbooks and the tm, what you see is that the few things NOT included in the test book but included in the tm would work very well orally. So that's my plan. Work through the lessons in order, bookmarking where we stop each day and not being afraid to chop lessons in half as needed.

I see why I was afraid....lol You have to be able to stop, and pick up the next day. Do the next thing is what it seems like we would likely go through, no neat and tidy lesson planning pages with exctly what has to be done.:tongue_smilie:

 

I didn't know CLE had diagramming books.Yes, Basics of Diagramming is what they have. It is a reference guide with examples for diagramming all parts of speech, phrases, and clauses for $3.00

 

It would be nice to drop everything else. I know math and science will be heavy this year, and her grammar is solid, credited to SE.

[Pongo]

I was thinking AG also, but my dd does like fun and being able to offer a bit of fun curricula onto a heavy workload is nice. I am even wondering if she will need anything more intensive. Possibly a Latin/Greek study would round out all those years of SE.

[PeterPan]

The supplemental/maintenance sentences for AG are quite interesting and should fit our fun-lovers just fine. I just think it has to be at the right age to where they can appreciate them, kwim?

 

Well this is cool. All this talk has streamlined my thoughts on LA for next year. :)

[LinRTX]

I think you could easily put your 10yo in Shurley 6. I have my 9yo doing the grammar part (not the writing--we use other things) and she is doing fine. She went through most of KISS level 2 as an 8yo.

 

Linda

[Pongo]

 

Well this is cool. All this talk has streamlined my thoughts on LA for next year. :)

 

Me too! We have been using Wordly Wise, it does the job but a bit boring. I'll go look at MCT, which level did you start with?

 

Sorry to the OP for the hijack~!

[PeterPan]

Fay, I got Caesar's English 1 and 2 and the practice book corresponding to CE2 (voyage level I think). CE1 wasn't a good fit, so we went up to CE2. CE2 reviews the CE1 content, so it's no trouble at all to plug in where there are words she doesn't know.

[Mosaicmind]

The WTM said that you should supplement Shurley with another writing program. Is this true? I am sold on putting them both in Shurley 6, but now I am looking at writing curriculum.

[PeterPan]

Well the writing in the lower levels is really ho-hum. It's not what *I* wanted to do, but that's just me. I guess see it and decide for yourself. VP has their students do the writing, but they kick it up by carrying it across subjects and incorporating IEW. For the ages you're talking about, I'd probably start by looking at IEW. It's something you could do with them together.

[Pongo]

The WTM said that you should supplement Shurley with another writing program. Is this true? I am sold on putting them both in Shurley 6, but now I am looking at writing curriculum.

 

I have only ever used it alongside IEW. IEW is easy enough to use with any history or science topic from your curriculum.

[Pongo]

Fay, I got Caesar's English 1 and 2 and the practice book corresponding to CE2 (voyage level I think). CE1 wasn't a good fit, so we went up to CE2. CE2 reviews the CE1 content, so it's no trouble at all to plug in where there are words she doesn't know.

 

Thanks. I'm going to order a copy, I am sure it wont be at our convention.:)

[Mosaicmind]

Well the writing in the lower levels is really ho-hum. It's not what *I* wanted to do, but that's just me. I guess see it and decide for yourself. VP has their students do the writing, but they kick it up by carrying it across subjects and incorporating IEW. For the ages you're talking about, I'd probably start by looking at IEW. It's something you could do with them together.

 

My IEW got lost in the mail, so I don't really have it yet!

[trisharog]

I will be using Shurley 3 next year with dd8. Should I get supplemental diagramming at this age or is that later?

 

Thanks

Trisha

[PeterPan]

Trisha, I think you'd find it quite easy simply to diagram one sentence each day from what you parse in Shurley. We do ours on the whiteboard and it's fun. :)