"Homeschooling always equals better"

[Guest Katia]

I guess my original point was to wonder if some homeschoolers think they're kids are doing really well ... but, like similar to my non-homeschooled experience, they don't know what the expectations "out there" are. And then maybe they will have a rude awakening similar to the one I had.

 

I'm also curious if anyone experienced exactly that, or knows a homeschooler who did ... and if so, what exactly was the lacking area, and why do you think it got missed? How could that have been avoided?

 

OP

 

No. That has not been my experience. I've graduated two of my three dc from our homeschool. Both were accepted into every college they applied to. Both had no problems with college level classes:

 

ds thought state univ. classes were simple. They required little thought or time from him until his junior and senior years, but even those classes were not difficult. He has his BA degree.

 

dd is attending an academically rigorous college. She had some organizational issues her first semester; getting it all sorted out. But as far as academics? Nope. No problems. And she is the one dc that we thought was 'behind'. She is not. Was not.

 

For youngest dd we looked at the possibility of her taking academic classes at the community college, but the classes there were so far below what she was already doing at home...there just was no point. It would have been a waste of her time. She has taken non-academic classes for extra-curricular activities at the community college (no credit given on her high school transcript but she still received college credit for these classes). They were fun things for her and we think it's silly that those credits can be transferred to a 4yr uni, but they can.

 

Personally, in the last 16 years of homeschooling and all the people we know/have known that homeschooled their children, I have never seen any that thought they were up-to-par and weren't.

 

I have, however, seen many, many parents and students that thought they had to add more and more to their schooling because what they were doing "wasn't enough".

 

I have also seen many parents and students who worked hard and did the best they could, but they knew they were 'behind'. They knew they would only make it in a community college setting and even then would have to take remedial classes. But, they weren't surprised. They knew.

 

OTOH, I have know many, many public school friends and family who thought their dc were doing wonderfully well (good grades, etc.) in the public schools only to find out they were not ready for the rigors of college.

 

Just my experience.

[LynnG in Arizona]

Jenny, I think I hear what you are trying to get at. And I am truly sorry for the difficulty you faced. :grouphug:

 

Our family does homeschool with the goal of sending our students to college eventually, so academic excellence is important to us. It's not the only goal we have for our family or our homeschool, but it is important. So I suppose I'm hearing your question from that perspective.

 

As our older kids have moved through the teen years, I have noticed several homeschooling families who were genuinely shocked that their students received mediocre or below average SAT scores. They honestly thought that their homeschooling would automatically result in high SAT scores and scholarship offers. It did not.

 

Yes, I know that these same students could have gotten similar (or lower) scores in a public school setting. But that really wasn't the OP's point. The point is that some homeschoolers do tend to over estimate the academics of their homeschool, especially in relation to public school options.

 

I know there are valid reasons for wanting to keep your students out of public schools. Hey . . . I am a homeschooler too! ;) But I do cringe a bit when I hear other homeschoolers make generalizations that underestimate the academics being taught in many public schools . . . and overestimate the academics being taught in their own homeschool.

[Charles Wallace]

Several threads today have made me wonder:

 

1) Do you agree with that statement (okay, you can add "almost always" if that helps!)

 

2) Do you think many homeschoolers agree with and promote that statement as being true, and if so, do you think it sometimes cause harm?

 

Please elaborate! :)

 

I'm going to give that one a qualified yes with the obvious proviso that although a statement might be *generally* true, it is not true for all people in all situations.

 

The reason why I think it mostly works for most people most of the time is one very simple reason: GREAT teacher-student ratio. That, coupled with the fact that every day is an individualized educational plan, makes homeschooling likelier to succeed than a one-size-fits-most plan.

[Tea Time]

And my point was that if one had the idea that "anything was better than public school," something like that could be a disappointing result.

 

If the only thing that you were concerned about was academic excellence, or keeping up with other people on test scores, or other specific indicators then it would be disappointing. But I know some homeschoolers whose children have not turned out to be the best and brightest scholars. They agonized about what to do. In the end, their child's character and the relationship that they had with that child was more important to them than the other factors. This is a highly personal decision. Not everyone would agree. Not everyone should, I suppose. The variety that results from people raising kids in different ways with different priorities is healthy - for the most part, IMO.

 

Let me clarify again, because my mind and/or this thread it taking all kinds of twists and turns, and I may well be confusing people.

 

This example above has nothing to do with homeschooling, and I'm not saying that homeschooled kids are more likely to need remedial classes.

 

I guess my original point was to wonder if some homeschoolers think they're kids are doing really well ... but, like similar to my non-homeschooled experience, they don't know what the expectations "out there" are. And then maybe they will have a rude awakening similar to the one I had.

 

I'm also curious if anyone experienced exactly that, or knows a homeschooler who did ... and if so, what exactly was the lacking area, and why do you think it got missed? How could that have been avoided?

 

OP

This is a good question, but unfortunately far too complex to answer with blanket statements. I think sometimes we expect everyone to fit into boxes that just aren't right for them. I think not everyone is cut out for college (another thread). I raised my kids in a small community with limited resources. I knew I was not getting through to them how competitive it would be in other places. I had huge obstacles that completely dashed the way I had expected to finish their schooling. It was traumatizing and disappointing on so many levels. YET... YET... my dd graduated early and is now in a very academic college doing just fine. She had to up her game the first semester, and Latin has kicked her rear end (and a lot of other people's as well - most just quit). And there well might have been other outcomes. I have given up thinking I have as much control as I once thought, over my own situation and certainly over other people.

 

OTOH, I have know many, many public school friends and family who thought their dc were doing wonderfully well (good grades, etc.) in the public schools only to find out they were not ready for the rigors of college.

 

Just my experience.

My experience has been very similar to Katie's post. But again, there are more factors involved than JUST academic achievement. My dd has observed the emotional maturity of many of the students at her very rigorous school is lacking. Dating is the biggest priority, and one of the couples is now expecting a child and planning to marry this summer. There are a lot of cliques and cliquish behavior. Many of the kids do not do well with alcohol (thankfully drugs aren't on the radar). So there is more to it all than just academics. My dd is a competent student, but many of these kids are so brilliant that academics come easily to them. But many others things are not so great. Life is not just measured success. When my dd was about 15 she told me that she was glad I homeschooled her because, knowing her personality, she knew exactly how she would have turned out if I had not. She was glad she did not turn out that way. I have had many moments like that with my children. That is why I homeschool(ed).

[Peela]

I have heard through our education department moderator the worst cases she gets to oversee. Some people register as homeschoolers in utter ignorance of what being responsible for your child's education entails. SOme expect the moderator to actually do all the work. There is an element of society that is terribly ignorant and often hostile to being corrected. So no, homeschooling is not goign to benefit kids whose family have NO books in the house and who have signed up for homeschooling only to avoid a bullying situation at school, and don't actually have a clue, and still want someone else to be responsible.

 

However, there are families in my circles I have judged that the kids would be better off at school because at least then they would get some sort of an education; but in the big scheme of things, I dont know that my judgements have any vlaue at all. I know one woman with 6 kids who struggled from crisis to crisis and often joked that there was no time to do any work at home...and this went on for years. I felt she was making excuses and that she should prioritise more academics for her kids...but really, I can't say. I don't actually think it takes too much effort over 12 years to get a basic education, so while it's not always ideal, there are many more benefits to homeschooling than rigorous academics, and different people have different values around it all. I know for the lady i am thinking of, passing on her Christian values to her kids was her priority for homeschooling....I felt she was paranoid about the possible impact of "the world" on her kids....but kids are resilient and survive all sorts of situations. For me, that sort of a situaiotn is borderline and I just dont know.

[Jenny in GA]

 

As our older kids have moved through the teen years, I have noticed several homeschooling families who were genuinely shocked that their students received mediocre or below average SAT scores. They honestly thought that their homeschooling would automatically result in high SAT scores and scholarship offers. It did not.

 

Yes, I know that these same students could have gotten similar (or lower) scores in a public school setting. But that really wasn't the OP's point. The point is that some homeschoolers do tend to over estimate the academics of their homeschool, especially in relation to public school options.

 

I know there are valid reasons for wanting to keep your students out of public schools. Hey . . . I am a homeschooler too! ;) But I do cringe a bit when I hear other homeschoolers make generalizations that underestimate the academics being taught in many public schools . . . and overestimate the academics being taught in their own homeschool.

 

 

Yes, yes! That's exactly the kind of thing I was wondering about.

 

I'm not even saying that it happens much, but I was wondering if people worried about that, if people had seen it happen (or experienced it), and if so, maybe why, and how or if it could have been avoided.

 

Jenny

[Jenny in GA]

I think I'm still struggling to understand your point. Yes, I struggled with domestic things, it was an obstacle to overcome but I did learn how to do these things, not as a child but as an adult but I still learned them. I can do them now as well as anyone else. I do struggle with falling into old habits sometimes but who doesn't? I guess what I'm asking is, what exactly is the point that I illustrated with my example?

 

Sorry!

 

This post took some turns and I'm probably saying that I advocate certain things, when really I'm just asking and wondering about them.

 

First, I started this thread because of a few things that made me think: "Do homeschoolers often -- and maybe too quickly -- encourage themselves and other homeschoolers with the idea that 'it's homeschooling, and public schools hardly do anything, and God gave you those kids so you're automatically their best teacher,' etc?"

 

So I threw that out for discussion: Do people do that? And if so, do you think it's a bad thing?

 

Somewhere along the way someone asked how/why it could be a bad thing. I started to try to elaborate (in general) possibilities and problems when Someone (whether homeschooled or not) could think they were doing well, but then were in for a shock when they realized what was going on "out there" and that they were not up to par.

 

[incidentally, I just remembered that I asked a group of teachers what they thought of homeschooling, and several said their biggest concern would be that the parent didn't have a proper frame of reference -- that they would think their child was brilliant and doing great, but in reality he was in fourth grade reading on a first grade level. But now I'm getting off on a tangent again ...]

 

The point that I felt you illustrated was just that if that did ever happen to somebody (and it could happen to schooled or homeschooled kids), it would result in a lot of frustration and difficulty that could have been avoided.

 

I have no idea if this is making any sense or I am just sounding more and more obtuse ... honestly, I'm not really trying to persuade anybody of anything, so much as I'm throwing out some ideas for discussion and seeing if anybody has interesting stories to share along those lines.

 

Thanks for bearing with me,

Jenny

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, yes! That's exactly the kind of thing I was wondering about.

 

I'm not even saying that it happens much, but I was wondering if people worried about that, if people had seen it happen (or experienced it), and if so, maybe why, and how or if it could have been avoided.

 

Jenny

 

In the other thread asking if desire was enough, my answer was that no because you needed follow through (I said more than that but that is the bottom line). I believe that follow through includes periodic evaluations of how you are doing. It may be a standardized test that may point out areas where your child is not at grade level. It may be an "internal review" of sorts where you see where your child's weaknesses are and even where your own as a teacher are. Whatever they are, these periodic evaluations allow us to do course corrections on the way to our homeschooling goal. The course corrections may be small ones - like switching some subjects around to meet a child's need for more variety. Or t may be a big one like outsourcing a subject. I think that those who wake up and suddenly find that their children are way below grade level could not have been doing any kind of evaluations. Those kind of things do not sneak up on you.

[sunnydaye]

I definitely think that it can be better alternative to Public Schools with values that differ drastically from your own. But a good Bible base private school can be just as good.

[mcconnellboys]

I don't think there's ever a cut and dried one best way for all. Children are different. Families are different. If parents and children are working together to give the children what they need to be healthy and successful when they grow up, then that's a good thing.

 

If parents have an ideal/dream about what they want to do with homeschooling to give their children the best sort of education, but they really are not able to achieve the reality of that, then they may be doing harm.

 

If they have ideas that are more amorphous (and I don't mean to pick on unschoolers, but some folks I know who use this approach fall into what I'm talking about here), and those ideas just don't pan out over time, then they may not really be best serving their children.

 

Now, as to "harm", I'm not sure that failure to provide a top notch education up to the age of 18 necessarily ruins the chances of a person to ever obtain a good education. If that child grows up and goes out and sees that they are behind in certain areas, and if they wish to catch up in those areas, I think they can still do it on their own. So have their parents done irreparable harm? No, not in a case such as that. The same could be said for children graduating from a poor school system of any sort.

 

Can parents sometimes cause harm? Well, I'm sure that can occur, yes. People are imperfect and have all sorts of physical and mental issues. Can more time spent with a psychologically unstable parent perhaps have a greater effect on a child than if they had more time outside the house each day? Maybe. Are there more opportunities for abuse? Yes, maybe. But children who attend regular schools and who have unstable parents also have to deal with those parents for at least some part of every day (or most days). That issue doesn't really have anything to do with homeschooling, per se.