Growing With Grammar--retention ??(WT, too)

[Tiramisu]

I remember reading posts (before MCT became all the rage) where some were dissatisfied with how much their dc retained when using GWG. We're using Writing Tails 1 now and will use 2 next year, and, well, I'm looking for a change from ABeka for grammar. Are you happy with how well your dc are doing with GWG or do you have a better suggestion to supplement the grammar in Writing Tales 2?

[Dawn E]

I wasn't satisfied with the review of GWG, but we only used levels 1 and 2. Review may have improved past those levels since I assume they started using all the pieces they introduced in the lower levels. For me, it felt as though everything was broken down into pieces without a glimpse of the whole ever. I prefer to have things introduced while still working daily on everything learned to that point, so that the big picture is more easily grasped.

 

I will be using CLE LA with WT 1 next year. Since we haven't begun, I don't know how the two will be together, but I can tell you I have definitely been impressed with the review that CLE provides.

[Paula in PA]

My dd has used all of GWG 3 and part of 4 now and her retention has been excellent. Each lesson has some kind of review of previous concepts, which helps. There is also some built-in review between levels, with each section starting by covering material similar to the previous level, then expanding and going a little deeper.

 

I'll admit I had some doubts about continuing with GWG, but after checking out the TOC for the following levels, especially 7, I feel good about using the rest of the series. Plus, my dd really likes it.

[EKS]

My son remembered NOTHING from GWG 3 last year. He did well with the review in the program but it didn't stick over the summer. At all.

 

So we switched to MCT. I'm fairly certain that it will stick this time, but I will know more in September.

[robsiew]

I'm finding the longer we do grammar the more it sticks. Even though GWG works nicely as an independent grammar program, I still make sure to go over each lesson with my kids. I think this helps to cement in the lessons. GWG has lots of review book to book so I think over the long haul retention will be fine. Especially when reinforced in their other writing. (ie. narrations and WWE)

 

I'm curious to hear why the PP believes there is greater retention with MCT, even after not using it for long and not experiencing a summer off. I think anything not reviewed for 3 mos. has a greater chance of not being retained unless it is something the child is naturally inclined toward.

[EKS]

I'm curious to hear why the PP believes there is greater retention with MCT, even after not using it for long and not experiencing a summer off. I think anything not reviewed for 3 mos. has a greater chance of not being retained unless it is something the child is naturally inclined toward.

 

I'm thinking that the retention will be better because my son is having to actually *think* when he does MCT work, whereas in GWG, once he got the pattern, he just ran with it without thinking. I also went over the lessons in GWG with him, and made sure he understood everything.

 

But as I said in my previous post--I'll know more in September.

[PeterPan]

We did Shurley with WT2, no problems with retention. Whatever you do, you just need a dab because WT2 will be doing so much grammar. You could even do something that has built-in review like Easy Grammar or Daily Grams (something with a small dose) and then go into a fuller grammar program the following year when you're in Homer.

[Tiramisu]

Thank you for all your comments. If dd were using WT2 in fourth grade, I honestly wouldn't worry too much about additional grammar, but she will be in 5th. Grammar is something I want to stay on top of because I had to do a lot of catch up with an older dd after pulling her out of ps.

 

GWG is appealing to me because it includes diagramming and seems like it can be used independently if necessary. I don't like the idea of handing off a workbook but over the last two years we've had times here and there when it's been necessary. When I was mulling over choices for dd9, dd14 told me it would be better if she could have something she could do on her own for times when I was busy. She knows what life can be like with 4 dc.

 

I did Easy Grammar Plus with dd14 last year and she loved it. I just don't know if it would be too much of a jump from ABeka 4. And, it doesn't have diagramming.

 

CLE has been a great success for this dd with math, but would it be too much on top of WT2?

 

I'd also like to take a look at R & S. I'm thinking we could do a lot aloud. It might be successful because she's an auditory learner.

 

Or I could just stay with ABeka...choices, choices....

 

Thanks again!

[michelle l]

My boys are really liking GWG because it is fairly quick and they can do it independantly. We're new to hs this year, and we started out trying to do too much, so we pulled back to just the 3R's and have gradually started adding other things in. GWG was easy to add in because it is relatively "painless". I feel like they're getting a good foundation without being overwhelmed, which is an important consideration for us this year.

[PeterPan]

Kelli, since she's an auditory learner, you really might consider Shurley. Just 3 sentences a day to parse, done together orally. We then diagram one of those on a whiteboard. It's just enough alongside WT2 but not too much. If I could suggest, I would get Shurley 6. It's going to correlate well with WT2, covering pretty much the same things.

 

I also had my WT2 class do editing and Punctuation Puzzlers. We did the editing 1st semester to build their skills in self-editing, transfering that red pen work from me to them. The Punctuation Puzzlers were 2nd semester. If you do those things and use Shurley lightly (do the parsing fully, but do the conventions and stuff orally) it will be just enough alongside WT2, not too much, and you'll have AMAZING retention. :)

[Kate in Arabia]

I'm using GWG with ds #2, he's finishing up level 2. So far so good. But I wanted to mention, that my older is using GUM + we do the grammar parts of Classical Writing, and he still has needed lots of review, he does flashcards weekly. I think programs can be better or worse individually, but in my experience, regardless of the program, the kids needed regular review work outside of the program.

 

jmo

[Tiramisu]

I also had my WT2 class do editing and Punctuation Puzzlers. We did the editing 1st semester to build their skills in self-editing, transfering that red pen work from me to them. The Punctuation Puzzlers were 2nd semester. If you do those things and use Shurley lightly (do the parsing fully, but do the conventions and stuff orally) it will be just enough alongside WT2, not too much, and you'll have AMAZING retention. :)

 

Interesting. What you would you recommend for editing?

[PeterPan]

Well right now we're using an Editor in Chief workbook, which is fine, no complaints. At that time we used Take 5 Minutes history fact a day editing, and that was very fun. They're short, interesting tidbits. I'd have her correct them then rewrite it correctly as copywork. You can get it as an ebook and print them into strips that you cut apart. (Or the regular book is reproducible, allowing you to do the same thing.) I wrote the number of errors on the strip, so she knew how many she was looking for. As I said, I did this in my weekly co-op class too, and it worked out great. After a semester of that, they were much more confident and aggressive about going at their own papers with a red pen. Once they did that, then we would come together and talk through applying the enhancement skills of WT2 (sentence beginnings, variety, quotes, etc.) to their drafts. It flows well, because those skills pick up 2nd semester, right when their editing skills are coming into shape.

 

Editor in Chief takes a little longer, simply because the models are longer. As I recall, the number of errors per task was about the same (11-13). With EiC you're able to chose a level of model and get into something that may be more challenging. EiC in the book we're doing throws in quite a bit with run-on sentences, homynyms (whose vs. who's), etc. Those are the types of errors students make, so you it gives you a chance to practice seeing them in a non-personal, non-threatening situation. I'm all for it. :)

[Dawn E]

I, too, have wondered about the combo of WT and CLE...I'm assuming WT1 will be less grammar than WT2. Of course, I'll know soon enough. :) It's so hard trying to plan out such an unknown.

 

If you were to just supplement the grammar of WT2, I think using Shurley in a modified way would be good. Perhaps you could focus on the practice sentences and parsing. I do like the way Shurley also builds as it teaches giving constant practice in using all parts.

 

I think GWG is a fine program. Even with my frustrations, I still had a hard time moving on to another program. Dd really liked it, and the work was very manageable. The problems that I encountered with it are likely not going to be there in the level you need. And, if you are combining it with the grammar in WT2, even if there were retention issues with just GWG, the extra practice would help resolve that.

 

Best wishes to you in your search. I know I haven't much to offer you besides that, but I do hope you find the perfect complement (and then share it so I can steal it :D )

[Tiramisu]

Thank you, everyone. My mission now is to get my hands on a Shurley TM and see if I can manage to learn the system.;)